Litter

[jasmillo]

I’ve lived in 7 different states (CT, FL, AZ, MT, ID, CO and WA) and have not noticed that WA is any worse litter wise than others. We have a homeless issue here which brings with it large destructive tracts of shit but everyday roadway litter, pretty similar to other parts of the country I have lived in. I’d actually say better than CT/NY/NJ/PA/MA roadways. FL was horrible, though when I lived there I used to walk some busy roads to work a couple miles daily so probably noticed it more. CO was pretty clean if I recall correctly, even in the more urban areas. AZ also was not too bad where I lived in the burbs. MT and ID were clean in general but I came across a lot of rural dumping areas exploring those states. In general, I found the more populated a place, the more there were assholes leaving shit behind. Garbage and recycling truck routes are also real shitholes sometimes. I wish someone would crack down on the trash those trucks spray over our roads.

Regardless of how bad it it or what the cause, it all sucks. I personally just don’t get the mindset.

Edit: I will say this about WA. My wife lived here as a kid (30+ years ago) and she has mentioned to me that litter seems worse now in WA than when she was young. So, maybe with increased population and other factors, WA is now “catching up” with other parts of the country unfortunately.

 

[Peyton00]

In a previous thread a few months ago, I was talking about my old lady neighbor asking for dog poop to "fix an asshole dog walker".

She asked me to save a bag for her again.
He must be a slow learner.

She is quite a card. Spunky old woman.

Up here in Northeast Seattle, next to the job site I'm on, every flower bed is full of dog shit from all the people living in the apartments.

 

[johnnyboy]

Our state has a major dog shit problem. Ive found so much dog shit alongside trails, on beaches, and on river banks and it drives me nuts.

People think it decomposes, but there is plenty of research that makes it clear that it actually adds harmful waste that is detrimental to the environment.

 

[FinLuver]

I guess that went over my head. Not sure what you’re referring to then but no worries.

People who migrate into Oregon because of its beauty. Then, turn around and make the state into where they migrated (escaped) from.

In a sense, it’s really similar to immigration…
Those who really wanna embrace and protect the area and it’s culture will do so. Unfortunately, those numbers seem to be dwindling with each passing generation.

Ultimately, it’s what’s going on between peoples’ ears that will make the change necessary to clean up and discontinue these societal problems.

Didn’t think I would have to explain it.
But as you say…no worries.

 

[Bugmeister]

People who migrate into Oregon because of its beauty. Then, turn around and make the state into where they migrated (escaped) from.

In a sense, it’s really similar to immigration…
Those who really wanna embrace and protect the area and it’s culture will do so. Unfortunately, those numbers seem to be dwindling with each passing generation.

Ultimately, it’s what’s going on between peoples’ ears that will make the change necessary to clean up and discontinue these societal problems.

Didn’t think I would have to explain it.
But as you say…no worries.

This guy - an Oregon area OG - probably had some feelings about people migrating into the area near his home and then turning around and trying to make it like where they came from as well….

 

[Canuck from Kansas]

People who migrate into Oregon because of its beauty. Then, turn around and make the state into where they migrated (escaped) from.

In a sense, it’s really similar to immigration…

This is of course, utter nonsense. There are plenty of Oregonians who have spent their entire lives in Oregon who trash their own property and public property, and there are plenty of folks who migrated who cherish and work to protect and restore Oregon's beauty. Of course there are equal proportions of each the other way around. I met plenty of each on my travels while I lived there.

Generalizations and blaming the "other" is always easy, but rarely useful.

cheers

 

[Dustin Chromers]

This is of course, utter nonsense. There are plenty of Oregonians who have spent their entire lives in Oregon who trash their own property and public property, and there are plenty of folks who migrated who cherish and work to protect and restore Oregon's beauty. Of course there are equal proportions of each the other way around. I met plenty of each on my travels while I lived there.

Generalizations and blaming the "other" is always easy, but rarely useful.

cheers

I blame Canada

 

[Scottybs]

I’ve lived in 7 different states (CT, FL, AZ, MT, ID, CO and WA) and have not noticed that WA is any worse litter wise than others. We have a homeless issue here which brings with it large destructive tracts of shit but everyday roadway litter, pretty similar to other parts of the country I have lived in. I’d actually say better than CT/NY/NJ/PA/MA roadways. FL was horrible, though when I lived there I used to walk some busy roads to work a couple miles daily so probably noticed it more. CO was pretty clean if I recall correctly, even in the more urban areas. AZ also was not too bad where I lived in the burbs. MT and ID were clean in general but I came across a lot of rural dumping areas exploring those states. In general, I found the more populated a place, the more there were assholes leaving shit behind. Garbage and recycling truck routes are also real shitholes sometimes. I wish someone would crack down on the trash those trucks spray over our roads.

Regardless of how bad it it or what the cause, it all sucks. I personally just don’t get the mindset.

Edit: I will say this about WA. My wife lived here as a kid (30+ years ago) and she has mentioned to me that litter seems worse now in WA than when she was young. So, maybe with increased population and other factors, WA is now “catching up” with other parts of the country unfortunately.

As are the drug and homeless problem. Again, it’s cultural permissiveness that has created this mess.

 

[FinLuver]

This is of course, utter nonsense. There are plenty of Oregonians who have spent their entire lives in Oregon who trash their own property and public property, and there are plenty of folks who migrated who cherish and work to protect and restore Oregon's beauty. Of course there are equal proportions of each the other way around. I met plenty of each on my travels while I lived there.

Generalizations and blaming the "other" is always easy, but rarely useful.

cheers

Hence…the within and between the ears.

Ya bit at a non-flashy spinning thing…

 

[FinLuver]

This guy agrees (……)

View attachment 105921

That guy (and others like him) wasn’t as innocent as he looks towards others and the environment.
It’s really a human condition no matter the (fill in the blank).

 

[jasmillo]

As are the drug and homeless problem. Again, it’s cultural permissiveness that has created this mess.

IMO, increased litter is more of a population issue.

Drug and homeless issues are complex. You can blame politicians, you can blame academics, you can blame “cultural permissiveness” which is not a legitimate term because culture is what culture is. You can blame everyone who thinks trying something different to combat an issue that has been around as long as societies existed. In the end, new things are being tried because old things didn’t work either. Not like the old ways go away. If as a society we feel the need to go back to them, nothing is stopping us except us and that is how democracy is supposed to work. We can lock up every junkie. We could do the same to the homeless. We could not feed them and provide services. We all know that tactic causes a whole different slate of issues. We could call @Salmo_g and his backhoe and deliver a little frontier justice like it’s 1823 and as fun as that gimmick is to banter about on a forum, I think we can all agree due diligence is not a bad thing.

These are not simple issues to solve, only simpletons think so. If they were, they would be solved because nobody, regardless of political affiliation, religion, etc. wants these things to exist in a society. We just have different ideas on what might best mitigate them.

 

[WoodseyOwl]

IMO, increased litter is more of a population issue.

Drug and homeless issues are complex. You can blame politicians, you can blame academics, you can blame “cultural permissiveness” which is not a legitimate term because culture is what culture is. You can blame everyone who thinks trying something different to combat an issue that has been around as long as societies existed. In the end, new things are being tried because old things didn’t work either. Not like the old ways go away. If as a society we feel the need to go back to them, nothing is stopping us except us and that is how democracy is supposed to work. We can lock up every junkie. We could do the same to the homeless. We could not feed them and provide services. We all know that tactic causes a whole different slate of issues. We could call @Salmo_g and his backhoe and deliver a little frontier justice like it’s 1823 and as fun as that gimmick is to banter about on a forum, I think we can all agree due diligence is not a bad thing.

These are not simple issues to solve, only simpletons think so. If they were, they would be solved because nobody, regardless of political affiliation, religion, etc. wants these things to exist in a society. We just have different ideas on what might best mitigate them.

Very thoughtful and reflection provoking speaking to my better self, but dang the litter just makes me so mad when I encounter it that I wouldn't call my reaction thoughtful. Thank you for your post.

 

[Scottybs]

IMO, increased litter is more of a population issue.

Drug and homeless issues are complex. You can blame politicians, you can blame academics, you can blame “cultural permissiveness” which is not a legitimate term because culture is what culture is. You can blame everyone who thinks trying something different to combat an issue that has been around as long as societies existed. In the end, new things are being tried because old things didn’t work either. Not like the old ways go away. If as a society we feel the need to go back to them, nothing is stopping us except us and that is how democracy is supposed to work. We can lock up every junkie. We could do the same to the homeless. We could not feed them and provide services. We all know that tactic causes a whole different slate of issues. We could call @Salmo_g and his backhoe and deliver a little frontier justice like it’s 1823 and as fun as that gimmick is to banter about on a forum, I think we can all agree due diligence is not a bad thing.

These are not simple issues to solve, only simpletons think so. If they were, they would be solved because nobody, regardless of political affiliation, religion, etc. wants these things to exist in a society. We just have different ideas on what might best mitigate them.

Jasmillo,

Like you, I’ve lived all over the country and I travel all over the world routinely. Our policies have allowed our urban areas to progress into the third world garbage dumps they are now. I’m not saying that we need go full recourse and bring in the backhoe. People’s compassion for others has turned into enabling the destructive lifestyles that have created this mess. Some stand here on the holier than though standpoint of other pollution crusades yet could give a shit less about the amount of pollution and debris that are outright disgusting, embarrassing and contaminating. I’m going to triple down on that it’s a cultural problem.

 

[Flymph]

If people don't care if their planet burns to a crisp why would they care about indiscriminate trash dumping? Maybe they are hoping for global spontaneous combustion and just adding fuel for the final days of fire to get it over with!

 

[SteelHeadDave]

People who migrate into Oregon because of its beauty. Then, turn around and make the state into where they migrated (escaped) from.

In a sense, it’s really similar to immigration…
Those who really wanna embrace and protect the area and it’s culture will do so. Unfortunately, those numbers seem to be dwindling with each passing generation.

Ultimately, it’s what’s going on between peoples’ ears that will make the change necessary to clean up and discontinue these societal problems.

Didn’t think I would have to explain it.
But as you say…no worries.

Littering has been a part of NW culture long before the recent population boom in this region. Town dumps were generally the adjacent woodlands. Old logging cables are strewn about in pretty much every woodland you step foot in. River banks made for great places to offload trash. I see evidence of this everywhere I go and it’s easy to see if you dig a little bit. The NW canopy does a great job of covering up the old so that the new litter can be seen, but it still exists. I have a collection of old beer cans and bottles that I’ve found in the woods, a few of which are quite old. The littering mentality has been passed down generationally. Of course with more people you will have a bigger issue but trying to pass it off like the problem never existed before is IMO a narrow way of looking at it.

 

[jasmillo]

Jasmillo,

Like you, I’ve lived all over the country and I travel all over the world routinely. Our policies have allowed our urban areas to progress into the third world garbage dumps they are now. I’m not saying that we need go full recourse and bring in the backhoe. People’s compassion for others has turned into enabling the destructive lifestyles that have created this mess. Some stand here on the holier than though standpoint of other pollution crusades yet could give a shit less about the amount of pollution and debris that are outright disgusting, embarrassing and contaminating. I’m going to triple down on that it’s a cultural problem.

I know some holier than now pollution crusaders and for them, it does not stop at celebrities flying in PJ’s all over the world. They also lament trash and litter in our parks and other natural places as much as anyone.

To call Seattle a third world garbage dump is a bit of hyperbole IMO. I remember going to NY often to visit relatives as a kid in the 80’s. The greatest city in the world, even then and it made 2024 Seattle look like Beverly Hills. You could say the same for most east coast cities I grew up in and around back then. I am not disagreeing with those who say Seattle is worse off than it used to be. I don’t have that context and have no reason to not believe it. Seattle sounds like it must have been an Eden compared to other large cities I was familiar with growing up and that has changed unfortunately. Becoming the fastest growing city in the U.S. over the last decade is likely whats driving that. More people, more trash. Simple math problem. Not a culture shift. Shitty people littered then, shitty people litter now. There’s just more of them.

 

[Scottybs]

I know some holier than now pollution crusaders and for them, it does not stop at celebrities flying in PJ’s all over the world. They also lament trash and litter in our parks and other natural places as much as anyone.

To call Seattle a third world garbage dump is a bit of hyperbole IMO. I remember going to NY often to visit relatives as a kid in the 80’s. The greatest city in the world, even then and it made 2024 Seattle look like Beverly Hills. You could say the same for most east coast cities I grew up in and around back then. I am not disagreeing with those who say Seattle is worse off than it used to be. I don’t have that context and have no reason to not believe it. Seattle sounds like it must have been an Eden compared to other large cities I was familiar with growing up and that has changed unfortunately. Becoming the fastest growing city in the U.S. over the last decade is likely whats driving that. More people, more trash. Simple math problem. Not a culture shift. Shitty people littered then, shitty people litter now. There’s just more of them.

Dude! Progress…. We both agree, shitty people!

 

[Mossback]

The rural dumping I see out here is from the locals. People don't 'come from Seattle' to dump their trash miles up a logging road, and it's not 'new people moving in ' that are driving miles up old logging roads to dump their trash either.
It's the same fucking white trash losers that collect piles of crap in their yards, have 5 or 6 non running cars in the yard, and do not avail themselves of garbage service...it's learned behavior, passed down through generations. It pisses off the people they don't like ( new people) so that is a good enough reason to continue I am told.
I should post pictures of some of the shithole properties around here. In the last 12 years I watched as older, modest cabins and houses were 'inherited' by the grandkids, and have turned into garbage dumps...and then all of a sudden, some of it's gone...usually between dusk and dawn.

Your Garbage Problem May Vary

 

[Dustin Chromers]

The rural dumping I see out here is from the locals. People don't 'come from Seattle' to dump their trash miles up a logging road, and it's not 'new people moving in ' that are driving miles up old logging roads to dump their trash either.
It's the same fucking white trash losers that collect piles of crap in their yards, have 5 or 6 non running cars in the yard, and do not avail themselves of garbage service...it's learned behavior, passed down through generations. It pisses off the people they don't like ( new people) so that is a good enough reason to continue I am told.
I should post pictures of some of the shithole properties around here. In the last 12 years I watched as older, modest cabins and houses were 'inherited' by the grandkids, and have turned into garbage dumps...and then all of a sudden, some of it's gone...usually between dusk and dawn.

Your Garbage Problem May Vary

Our only hope for a clean forest is if gas prices get so high it can't be driven into the woods. Never ceased to amaze me how garbage service costs X and there trip up to nowhere cost Y but the dumpers will do Y. Perhaps they pair it with a deer poaching trip or a drunken gravel drive date so it pencils.

 

[Salmo_g]

Our only hope for a clean forest is if gas prices get so high it can't be driven into the woods. Never ceased to amaze me how garbage service costs X and there trip up to nowhere cost Y but the dumpers will do Y. Perhaps they pair it with a deer poaching trip or a drunken gravel drive date so it pencils.

You touch on a point that gets directly at rural forest dumping. I'm pretty sure of the cause. All through the 1960s and I think into the early 1970s, taking trash to the county dump was free. Dump operation costs were part of the county budgets. The smart people who failed to think of unintended consequences thought user fees would be the better way to cover dump O&M. No matter how small the cost, the user fee was a direct cost that some residents wouldn't or couldn't bear, so they drove up forest roads to offload their trash. The forest companies, like Weyerhauser, put up with it until they discovered that they were liable for the hazardous waste that was dumped on their forest property. Which led to all the gates that are now commonplace.

It won't stop all littering, but incorporating trash O&M into city and county budgets correlates 100% with drastically reduced illegal dumping.