Litter

Stonedfish

Stonedfish

Known Grizzler-hater of triploids, humpies & ND
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Scottybs

Scottybs

Head Master Flyfisher In Charge
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Porter2

Porter2

Life of the Party
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Scottybs said:
Simple, 100 hours of maritime trash clean up each, Florida might actually have the backbone to hand down a sentence like this.
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Depends on who their papas are That’s the way it works regardless of political affiliations.
This is the way it will play out 90% of the time. Those guilty have affluent parents. Especially out in a boat like that. Those parents will spend thousands and thousands of dollars to a lawyer for $150 bucks worth of work to erase this incident from ever existing. Or maybe just maybe ????? But that’s the 10%. Or less. Just MHO.
 
Scottybs

Scottybs

Head Master Flyfisher In Charge
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Porter2 said:
Depends on who their papas are That’s the way it works regardless of political affiliations.
This is the way it will play out 90% of the time. Those guilty have affluent parents. Especially out in a boat like that. Those parents will spend thousands and thousands of dollars to a lawyer for $150 bucks worth of work to erase this incident from ever existing. Or maybe just maybe ????? But that’s the 10%. Or less. Just MHO.
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And I’m sure you’re right, with a boat like that.
 
Scottybs

Scottybs

Head Master Flyfisher In Charge
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Porter2 said:
Yeah the boat is not guilty. The people are regardless if row boat or top tier Grady White.
Sorry. Assumptions are bad and I did that. My apologies.
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Calling it how you see it is not something to apologize for, you merely pointed out that a boat with 3 big screws is a sign of affluence.
 
J

JudyM

Steelhead
Scottybs said:
Calling it how you see it is not something to apologize for, you merely pointed out that a boat with 3 big screws is a sign of affluence.
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This all starts with the parents. Kids are a blank screen, and it is up to the parents to teach what is acceptable AND what isn't acceptable. The kids are a mirror of the parents. If I did that when as a kid, my parents would make my butt hot. Now a days, it is child abuse. No, it isn't as long as it is not severe. Just driving the brains from their butt to the head where the brains belong.
 
krusty

krusty

We're on the Road to Nowhere...
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I've known quite a few families with several well-reared children (who turned out to be productive members of society) and one child that was a shithead that ends up being a serious criminal.

Nature, nurture, and who a child ends up palling around with is an incredibly complex puzzle. Adolescence, which extends into the late 20's, is a risky period of personality development....and even more so if protected from consequences.
 
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5 Weight

5 Weight

Steelhead
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Scottybs

Scottybs

Head Master Flyfisher In Charge
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krusty said:
I've known quite a few families with several well-reared children (who turned out to be productive members of society) and one child that was a shithead that ends up being a serious criminal.

Nature, nuture, and who a child ends up palling around with is an incredibly complex puzzle. Adolescence, which extends into the late 20's, is a risky period of personality development....and even more so if protected from consequences.
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Definitely… but if your kid is a mistake you don’t give them the keys to the Ferrari, and in this case quite a boat. We all did stupid shit in our youth, I’m not wishing for a record that potentially decimates their future lives, but a little blood, sweat and tears working off their debt to society and the earth would be a good thing, and I feel this way about youth from all economic backgrounds. Accountability.
 
C

charles sullivan

Life of the Party
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krusty said:
I've known quite a few families with several well-reared children (who turned out to be productive members of society) and one child that was a shithead that ends up being a serious criminal.

Nature, nurture, and who a child ends up palling around with is an incredibly complex puzzle. Adolescence, which extends into the late 20's, is a risky period of personality development....and even more so if protected from consequences.
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Amen.
 
Dustin Chromers

Dustin Chromers

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krusty said:
I've known quite a few families with several well-reared children (who turned out to be productive members of society) and one child that was a shithead that ends up being a serious criminal.

Nature, nurture, and who a child ends up palling around with is an incredibly complex puzzle. Adolescence, which extends into the late 20's, is a risky period of personality development....and even more so if protected from consequences.
Click to expand...
Either way they raised them. I feel like more parents should be held accountable for their kids criminal activity. Kids are getting crazy lately cause there's no consequence at home or with law. I'm a firm believer if you raise a criminal threat you are accountable until they are of age to be held accountable as well. Enough is enough. Accountability should not be a lost concept on a lost generation.
 
C

charles sullivan

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Dustin Chromers said:
Either way they raised them. I feel like more parents should be held accountable for their kids criminal activity. Kids are getting crazy lately cause there's no consequence at home or with law. I'm a firm believer if you raise a criminal threat you are accountable until they are of age to be held accountable as well. Enough is enough. Accountability should not be a lost concept on a lost generation.
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I understand the sentiment. I disagree but I understand the thought. I held the same position for years until I raised kids myself and came to understand the limits of my influence. I am willing to give a lot of grace to parents aftter raising mine and I don't think you can judge someone for someone else's behavior.

Parents do not have as much control or influence as I thought they did prior to parenting. Honestly, once the kid is 12 or so, you just are not that important to them. My children have told me some of the more influential things that I have said or done. Most of these things were very surprising both that they were found to be impactful and what the impact was.

You can screw your child up. I understand the idea that you should be held accoutable if you do. If you smoke crack or hit your spouse, abuse the kids etc. you are in the wrong. These actions will screw them up to some degree. The fact is that they come out of their mother a certain way and the core of who they are born is very difficult to change. I have one child that's uber-confident and calm and one that is anxious and sensitive. These traits started at birth when one was calm and the other was anxious. These traits also have shaped the way that they experience life.

You cannot change the child or "fix" things about the child that you don't like or want. Things that you say or do have effects on kids that you cannot foresee. Minor events can be magnified and major events minimized in your childs brain and you really have no idea that it's happening. Children are not "molded" into the person that they become. They do not respond to rewards and punishment the way that I thought that they do. Parenting is as sloppy as coaching a 5th grade soccer game. You never realy have control. It rarely looks the way that you had envisioned that it would. You can't call timeout and the kids only hear some of what you say.

I have seen well meaning and active parents with kids that got out of control. I have seen parents who held their child accountable as much as possible lose that child to a drug addiction. I have also seen complete dirtbags raise kids who in the end became good people. It is true that parents can screw their kids up and many do. At the same time, I have come to realize that I am not in control of my kids and have not been in a long time. They are their own individual selves who see an interperate the world in their own individual way.
 
krusty

krusty

We're on the Road to Nowhere...
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Dustin Chromers said:
Either way they raised them. I feel like more parents should be held accountable for their kids criminal activity. Kids are getting crazy lately cause there's no consequence at home or with law. I'm a firm believer if you raise a criminal threat you are accountable until they are of age to be held accountable as well. Enough is enough. Accountability should not be a lost concept on a lost generation.
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Indeed...and in all of the US parents can be held responsible in civil court for the actions of minor children if the actions were done with intent or in malicious fashion.

Had an acquaintance who owned an engineering firm that had completed the survey work for a very large housing development. One weekend a kid on a dirtbike pulled up all of the survey markers, apparently because it was a prime dirtbike playground. His parents ended up paying tens of thousands of dollars to resurvey the entire site and as well as substantial additional damages for project delay.
 
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Scottybs

Scottybs

Head Master Flyfisher In Charge
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charles sullivan said:
I understand the sentiment. I disagree but I understand the thought. I held the same position for years until I raised kids myself and came to understand the limits of my influence. I am willing to give a lot of grace to parents aftter raising mine and I don't think you can judge someone for someone else's behavior.

Parents do not have as much control or influence as I thought they did prior to parenting. Honestly, once the kid is 12 or so, you just are not that important to them. My children have told me some of the more influential things that I have said or done. Most of these things were very surprising both that they were found to be impactful and what the impact was.

You can screw your child up. I understand the idea that you should be held accoutable if you do. If you smoke crack or hit your spouse, abuse the kids etc. you are in the wrong. These actions will screw them up to some degree. The fact is that they come out of their mother a certain way and the core of who they are born is very difficult to change. I have one child that's uber-confident and calm and one that is anxious and sensitive. These traits started at birth when one was calm and the other was anxious. These traits also have shaped the way that they experience life.

You cannot change the child or "fix" things about the child that you don't like or want. Things that you say or do have effects on kids that you cannot foresee. Minor events can be magnified and major events minimized in your childs brain and you really have no idea that it's happening. Children are not "molded" into the person that they become. They do not respond to rewards and punishment the way that I thought that they do. Parenting is as sloppy as coaching a 5th grade soccer game. You never realy have control. It rarely looks the way that you had envisioned that it would. You can't call timeout and the kids only hear some of what you say.

I have seen well meaning and active parents with kids that got out of control. I have seen parents who held their child accountable as much as possible lose that child to a drug addiction. I have also seen complete dirtbags raise kids who in the end became good people. It is true that parents can screw their kids up and many do. At the same time, I have come to realize that I am not in control of my kids and have not been in a long time. They are their own individual selves who see an interperate the world in their own individual way.
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But you have a huge say in their environment. Also having the stomach for drastic measures eg military school, etc. I’m a firm believer in compassion but it has its limits. Your roof, your rules. My wife just received a call about our 1st grader saying horrible things to a classmate, guess what, he’s going to be absolutely pissed about his punishments when he gets home, no driving range today, apology letter, and vacuuming the downstairs. I remember thanking my dad for the ass whoopins at about age 23 when I started flying $30 million airplanes. I was a challenging kid through about 8th grade and if it weren’t for him and my mom, I easily could have gone down a different path. If you don’t like your kids environment/peer group, grow a pair of strike indicators and change their environment.
 
Scottybs

Scottybs

Head Master Flyfisher In Charge
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krusty said:
Indeed...and in all of the US parents can be held responsible in civil court for the actions of minor children if the actions were done with intent or malicious fashion.

Had an acquaintance who owned an engineering firm that had completed the survey work for a very large housing development. One weekend a kid on a dirtbike pulled up all of the survey markers, apparently because it was a prime dirtbike playground. His parents ended up paying tens of thousands of dollars to resurvey the entire site and as well as substantial additional damages for project delay.
Click to expand...
Ouch ouch ouch, did they sell the dirt bike?…. “Well son, you had a college fund, I guess you’re going to have to find your own way”
 
C

charles sullivan

Life of the Party
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Scottybs said:
But you have a huge say in their environment. Also having the stomach for drastic measures eg military school, etc. I’m a firm believer in compassion but it has its limits. Your roof, your rules. My wife just received a call about our 1st grader saying horrible things to a classmate, guess what, he’s going to be absolutely pissed about his punishments when he gets home, nod driving range today, apology letter, and vacuuming the downstairs. I remember thanking my dad for the ass whoopins at about age 23 when I started flying $30 million airplanes. I was a challenging kid through about 8th grade and if it weren’t for him and my mom, I easily could have gone down a different path. If you don’t like your kids environment/peer group, grow a pair of strike indicators and change their environment.
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I wish you all the best with your kid. I hope that they turn out happy and healthy.
 
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