Stillwater indicator watchers: What's your approach?

[Smalma]

What I could never understand if the dumb trout are biting a swivel often enough to be a concern why in the heck do anglers worry some much our chironomid patterns, size of those patterns or the depth at which we are fishing them. Why not just tie some dark non-descript pattern say 3/8 inches long and just let it hang within 3 feet of the bottom and start catching fish.

Curt

 

[Tom Butler]

What I could never understand if the dumb trout are biting a swivel often enough to be a concern why in the heck do anglers worry some much our chironomid patterns, size of those patterns or the depth at which we are fishing them. Why not just tie some dark non-descript pattern say 3/8 inches long and just let it hang within 3 feet of the bottom and start catching fish.

Curt

Yep, the tdc, like this abused one, was my fav for years. Long leaders and count it down, painfully slow retrieve. And the zebra works too.

 

[Matt B]

What I could never understand if the dumb trout are biting a swivel often enough to be a concern why in the heck do anglers worry some much our chironomid patterns, size of those patterns or the depth at which we are fishing them. Why not just tie some dark non-descript pattern say 3/8 inches long and just let it hang within 3 feet of the bottom and start catching fish.

Curt

Those are the exact variables I seek to find the answer to. That's why I make sure my offerings have hooks in them. That way, if a fish bites my offering, I at least stand a chance of hooking it.

What I could never understand is if the dumb flies will sink just fine without a swivel-weight, why in the heck do anglers use one? They suspend something in a potential fish-feeding zone that is a similar size to the flies they are fishing, tempting fish to bite it instead of their dumb flies. Why not just tie on three flies, one with a hook and two without? That might increase the number of takes they get with no hookup and increase the number of variables they still have to figure out. Throw in a two-rod endorsement, and a rig with a swivel and a hookless fly to increase your variable-increasing fun!

 

[Zak]

What I could never understand if the dumb trout are biting a swivel often enough to be a concern why in the heck do anglers worry some much our chironomid patterns, size of those patterns or the depth at which we are fishing them. Why not just tie some dark non-descript pattern say 3/8 inches long and just let it hang within 3 feet of the bottom and start catching fish.

Curt

"I look into... my fly box, and think about all the elements I should consider in choosing the perfect fly: water temperature, what stage of development the bugs are in, what the fish are eating right now. Then I remember what a guide told me: 'Ninety percent of what a trout eats is brown and fuzzy and about five-eighths of an inch long."
-Allison Moir

 

[Buzzy]

For me the swivel serves two functions, some extra wieght to get the fly in the zone faster and keep it there on windy days, and an attachment point for tippet. The shallower I fish the smaller the swivel I use.

I'm not sure where in Canada you reside but from my visits to British Columbia, I know that I can only fish one fly per rod so the addition of a swivel would help rigging sink. Here in WA I sometimes use a swivel for that tippet attachment point, and sometimes I don't. I often use split shot when fishing a midge or pair of midges deep. I want the bugs to get down - here in WA, split shot are illegal in fly fishing only waters but okay in selective waters and in general regulation waters.

It never ends, heading to the Kamloops area May 29th. Excited to be back up after missing a couple years.

 

[Matt B]

I find it interesting that more than a few anglers are so faithful to using their swivels that they seemingly cannot imagine a plausible scenario where another angler has experienced enough swivel takes that they have in turn made a logical decision to eliminate them, if they don’t need them to sink their flies faster. Why is that so hard to imagine? I am telling you—this has happened to me. It seems that some think I am lying or mistaken about my experience. Must be nice to know everything!

I don’t understand the blind faith in the benefits of swivels, coupled with disdain for a fellow angler’s decision to eschew the swivel, all topped off with an inability or maybe it’s an unwillingness to understand and/or accept the reasoning behind that decision.

You do you! Swivel it up, brothers and sisters of the angle.

 

[Buzzy]

I find it interesting that more than a few anglers are so faithful to using their swivels that they seemingly cannot imagine a plausible scenario where another angler has experienced enough swivel takes that they have in turn made a logical decision to eliminate them, if they don’t need them to sink their flies faster. Why is that so hard to imagine? I am telling you—this has happened to me. It seems that some think I am lying or mistaken about my experience. Must be nice to know everything!

I don’t understand the blind faith in the benefits of swivels, coupled with disdain for a fellow angler’s decision to eschew the swivel, all topped off with an inability or maybe it’s an unwillingness to understand and/or accept the reasoning behind that decision.

You do you! Swivel it up, brothers and sisters of the angle.

Matt - bro of the angle, take a chill pill dude! ;-) I do get the idea, argument even, of the swivel being a tippet tie in point so the main leader isn't ever changed in length (which does bring up a shortcoming of a one line fixed length leader, eh?), an angler isn't clipping the main leader to add tippet. For this reason, I'm attempting to use tippet rings as that connector for tippet so I don't clip away at the main leader, so yes, I get it with trout biting swivels and I'm sure that some of my bobber down were swivel takes. Of course I do clip away at the main leader from time to time when I blow a cast and wind knot that 30 foot long concoction into a birds nest (no Tourettes for me).

I think someone somewhere over a rainbow related that from time to time trout rise to our stikeindicatorbobbers.

iPad Dulique

 

[Bambooflyguy]

Use them......don’t use them! Who really F’n cares? Let’s just fish and have fun.

 

[Matt B]

Matt - bro of the angle, take a chill pill dude! ;-) I do get the idea, argument even, of the swivel being a tippet tie in point so the main leader isn't ever changed in length (which does bring up a shortcoming of a one line fixed length leader, eh?), an angler isn't clipping the main leader to add tippet. For this reason, I'm attempting to use tippet rings as that connector for tippet so I don't clip away at the main leader, so yes, I get it with trout biting swivels and I'm sure that some of my bobber down were swivel takes. Of course I do clip away at the main leader from time to time when I blow a cast and wind knot that 30 foot long concoction into a birds nest (no Tourettes for me).

I think someone somewhere over a rainbow related that from time to time trout rise to our stikeindicatorbobbers.

iPad Dulique

Okay. Pill taken. I hope I have been able to communicate my reasoning. But, maybe I haven't. I hate that! I feel like I have been repeating myself.
I understand many reasons for using a swivel. I used to use them myself, and I mostly liked it, until these two times at Dusty that I remember very vividly. I was killing 'em on the indi. But I kept getting a bunch of instances where the indi would indicate, and I would attempt to set the hook, and nothing was there. After moving the indi to suspend my swivel (which was ~3 feet above the flies) and flies at a few different depths, and that kept happening, I took off the swivel and I was able to keep catching and stop the indi going down and nothing hooking up.
So I was also curious how well people think their flies sink without a swivel, like when we want to fish at 18 feet deep or more. That's why I started this thread.

Swivels are convenient in many ways. I get that.

 

[Buzzy]

Okay. Pill taken. I hope I have been able to communicate my reasoning. But, maybe I haven't. I hate that! I feel like I have been repeating myself.
I understand many reasons for using a swivel. I used to use them myself, and I mostly liked it, until these two times at Dusty that I remember very vividly. I was killing 'em on the indi. But I kept getting a bunch of instances where the indi would indicate, and I would attempt to set the hook, and nothing was there. After moving the indi to suspend my swivel (which was ~3 feet above the flies) and flies at a few different depths, and that kept happening, I took off the swivel and I was able to keep catching and stop the indi going down and nothing hooking up.
So I was also curious how well people think their flies sink without a swivel, like when we want to fish at 18 feet deep or more. That's why I started this thread.

Swivels are convenient in many ways. I get that.

I hear ya man. And your experience at Dusty would made a believer out of you (and it does me too). All things considered and my attempt to switch to tippet rings (so far I HATE THE DAMN THINGS, I CAN'T SEE THEM WITHOUT MY OPTIVISOR) is an experiment; one I'm testing tomorrow and again Friday. If I find that I simply can't tolerate the tippet rings and tying them on, then I will simply surgeons knot tippet to leader. What the hell, another knot in the leader? So what? I usually have a few wind knots in my leader by the end of the day.

 

[Grpaman]

Oh yes not only rise to strike indicators. A friend and I were fishing at Chopaka decided to go ashore for a lunch break, having munched on a coup!e of pistachio nuts , threw a nut shell on the water and saw a nice rainbow rise to attack. You never know.

 

[RCF]

Put a bare hook on the swivel or tippet ring. Problem solved...

 

[Matt B]

Oh yes not only rise to strike indicators. A friend and I were fishing at Chopaka decided to go ashore for a lunch break, having munched on a coup!e of pistachio nuts , threw a nut shell on the water and saw a nice rainbow rise to attack. You never know.

Why spend half an hour tying the perfect Chopaka callibaetis emerger when you could just glue a pistachio shell to a hook and hook the dumb fish? Because maybe a damsel or a water boatman would work better. Okay, I’ll stop.

 

[skyriver]

I will say...my nice SA line that is usually knot free and easy going gets twisted, and knotty, if I catch a bunch of fish on bobbers. Hate to complain about a good catch day, but maybe the swivel would help me? I thought that was one of the reasons some would use a swivel. Anyone experience knots after a good day even with a swivel?
And for the record...I am not either for nor against the swivel.

And I will be tying up some pistachio emergers pronto! No bobbers needed!

 

[Northern]

I will say...my nice SA line that is usually knot free and easy going gets twisted, and knotty, if I catch a bunch of fish on bobbers. Hate to complain about a good catch day, but maybe the swivel would help me? I thought that was one of the reasons some would use a swivel. Anyone experience knots after a good day even with a swivel?
And for the record...I am not either for nor against the swivel.

And I will be tying up some pistachio emergers pronto! No bobbers needed!

WTH?? You want to use a swivel because it swivels?

 

[Matt B]

I will say...my nice SA line that is usually knot free and easy going gets twisted, and knotty, if I catch a bunch of fish on bobbers. Hate to complain about a good catch day, but maybe the swivel would help me? I thought that was one of the reasons some would use a swivel. Anyone experience knots after a good day even with a swivel?
And for the record...I am not either for nor against the swivel.

And I will be tying up some pistachio emergers pronto! No bobbers needed!

Sounds like it may be worth a shot! Let me know where the hot bite is and we can do some side-by-side comparisons You know, for science!

 

[Tom Butler]

Oh yes not only rise to strike indicators. A friend and I were fishing at Chopaka decided to go ashore for a lunch break, having munched on a coup!e of pistachio nuts , threw a nut shell on the water and saw a nice rainbow rise to attack. You never know.

It's true, and it's not the first time. Best fish of the day hit my indicator hard today, then followed and swirled it twice. I switched to a big orange stimulator for a bit but couldn't repeat the odd occurrence. It's happened before, but really rarely. @Tim Lockhart , wrote about following the clues, but must have been just a one off.

 

[_WW_]

I think those using swivels should be required to have a flag up on their boat, (like a skier down flag) so we can identify them for future public scorn and condemnation.
Basically chiro fishers are nothing more than lazy dirty-azz-nymphers any way.

 

[Matt B]

I think those using swivels should be required to have a flag up on their boat, (like a skier down flag) so we can identify them for future public scorn and condemnation.
Basically chiro fishers are nothing more than lazy dirty-azz-nymphers any way.

 

[Buzzy]

Here is my swivel flag

View attachment 8949

Nice trout!