This Ain't Good...As A Matter Of Fact, Damn Sad!!!

[Nick Clayton]

I believe it is fact.

That's the thing about fact, and where you appear to get mixed up...

Fact, by its very definition, doesn't have anything to do with belief. Facts are facts whether you believe them or not.

If you find yourself typing the words "I believe..." well then you simply are not talking about facts, you're talking about opinion.

 

[Zak]

I believe it is fact.

Ok, I see where you are coming from. I don't agree with you, but there are millions of religious fundamentalists who do.

 

[Rob Allen]

Ok, I see where you are coming from. I don't agree with you, but there are millions of religious fundamentalists who do.

Do you agree with the golden rule?

 

[DimeBrite]

 

[Rob Allen]

That's the thing about fact, and where you appear to get mixed up...

Fact, by its very definition, doesn't have anything to do with belief. Facts are facts whether you believe them or not.

If you find yourself typing the words "I believe..." well then you simply are talking about facts, you're talking about opinion.

I agree things are fact whether we want them to be or not. Whether we believe them or not and whether we frame them as fact or not.
The greatest philosopher in world history, the philosopher upon which western thought is founded made no distinction between the thoughts entertained by people and their actions.
Humans because they are not good seek ways to alleviate their feelings of guilt by distancing themselves from that philosophy. 100% of human beings do this even those who claim to hold to that philosophy.
that is fact

 

[Mossback]

 

[Nick Clayton]

I agree things are fact whether we want them to be or not. Whether we believe them or not and whether we frame them as fact or not.
The greatest philosopher in world history, the philosopher upon which western thought is founded made no distinction between the thoughts entertained by people and their actions.
Humans because they are not good seek ways to alleviate their feelings of guilt by distancing themselves from that philosophy. 100% of human beings do this even those who claim to hold to that philosophy.
that is fact

I understand what you're getting at, but sorry Rob you can't use a religious figure as the example of your beliefs and then end with "that is fact". It's simply NOT a fact. It is belief. Religion as a whole is based on faith and belief.

If you phrase it as "I believe Jesus was the world's greatest philosopher and as such....." that's totally fine. But no matter how strongly you believe it, it's simply not a fact.

But with that I'll stop cluttering up this thread. Hope ya have a good one and I "believe" you're gonna sell your house and find your dream home very soon.

 

[Big Tuna]

Insightful rebuttal to what factually happened during those generations. Look forward to hearing more of these intellectual gems.

Just to be clear, the purpose of that post wasn’t to denigrate past generations; the purpose was to point out the rosy retrospection. That should have been obvious, but maybe not to everyone…

Yup. My reaction was inappropriate. My apologies. I think it's time for me to take a time out. Mods- please erase me.

 

[Rob Allen]

But with that I'll stop cluttering up this thread. Hope ya have a good one and I "believe" you're gonna sell your house and find your dream home very soon.

Thank you Nick..

 

[wanderingrichard]

All this stuff ought to be saved for the winter shack-nasties.

No . Let it out. If WE HERE can't have a discussion that's at least partially civilized, why should we expect the rest of the country to have an even larger one regarding how to right a teetering society?

 

[Zak]

Do you agree with the golden rule?

Yup. And it is by no means unique to Christianity.

 

[krusty]

No . Let it out. If WE HERE can't have a discussion that's at least partially civilized, why should we expect the rest of the country to have an even larger one regarding how to right a teetering society?

I have absolutely no such expectation!

 

[Rob Allen]

No . Let it out. If WE HERE can't have a discussion that's at least partially civilized, why should we expect the rest of the country to have an even larger one regarding how to right a teetering society?

I'd say the inability to have civilized conversations is the cornerstone of why our society is teetering.

 

[jaredoconnor]

Yup. My reaction was inappropriate. My apologies. I think it's time for me to take a time out. Mods- please erase me.

All good.

 

[Coach Potter]

From a Mineral County, MT resident.
"Today my husband Jon sherman and I floated the river from our house to slow way. He was alittle ahead of me and saw a couple loading their big raft onto a trailer. Two young men (maybe 16/17 yrs old) saw the man and came down from the parking area and asked him if he needed help. He said F…k no he didn’t need help. He said he didn’t need any f…king help. The rudeness was so unbelievable!!! Jon asked them if they’d help me when I landed because I had both knee replacements and can be alittle clumsy. They both jumped in and helped me. I was profusely thankful. The rude asswipe drove a crew cab red dodge diesel pickup with a electric bike and raft on a trailer. Washington license plates. I commend the parents of these young men. They were so friendly and kind. They’re from St Regis. They definitely didn’t deserve such treatment when trying to be helpful."

I generally see more people being helpful to others than people being rude to others.

I'm engaged with young people 4-6 days/week, 10 months out of the year....this is my 13th year. I see far more good kids than I do bad kids....the ratio of good to bad isn't even close. The bad kids tend to take up a disproportionate amount of our time and energy but that's just the way it is. There are some truly AMAZING young people out there.

The key to seeing it is being around them enough to have an opinion. The occasional interaction with a young person isn't a good gauge of anything.

*if you are a person who believes today's youth needs help then volunteer to help instead of complaining about how terrible they are going to be as adults...that statement is not directed at the OP...that's for everyone

 

[RCF]

Now that it has been completely settled ----> back to fishing..

 

[Gary Knowels]

I generally see more people being helpful to others than people being rude to others.

I'm engaged with young people 4-6 days/week, 10 months out of the year....this is my 13th year. I see far more good kids than I do bad kids....the ratio of good to bad isn't even close. The bad kids tend to take up a disproportionate amount of our time and energy but that's just the way it is. There are some truly AMAZING young people out there.

The key to seeing it is being around them enough to have an opinion. The occasional interaction with a young person isn't a good gauge of anything.

*if you are a person who believes today's youth needs help then volunteer to help instead of complaining about how terrible they are going to be as adults...that statement is not directed at the OP...that's for everyone

Same.

 

[Billy]

Yup. My reaction was inappropriate. My apologies. I think it's time for me to take a time out. Mods- please erase me.

No need. We all understand getting worked up in an argument.

 

[TicTokCroc]

I understand what you're getting at, but sorry Rob you can't use a religious figure as the example of your beliefs and then end with "that is fact". It's simply NOT a fact. It is belief. Religion as a whole is based on faith and belief.

If you phrase it as "I believe Jesus was the world's greatest philosopher and as such....." that's totally fine. But no matter how strongly you believe it, it's simply not a fact.

But with that I'll stop cluttering up this thread. Hope ya have a good one and I "believe" you're gonna sell your house and find your dream home very soon.

There is no cluttering up this thread

 

[Scottybs]

Having the ability to defend oneself physically against a bully or aggressor is one thing, but having the self restraint and mind power to choose not to does not make one a sheep. There's more than one way to stand up for yourself, it doesn't need to require kicking a bully's ass.

Society has changed, whether we like it or not. Using fists to solve problems and vent anger and frustration just isn't the way things are done anymore. Instead I think those same kids would be far better served by teaching them how to communicate, express their feelings openly without being labeled as a sheep, and provide them with access to mental health services. We've tried the "Don't take any shit and punch that bully in the mouth" program for a long time and it hasn't gotten us too far. Maybe it's time we change things up and focus on different methods.

“Don't take any shit and punch that bully in the mouth" program for a long time and it hasn't gotten us too far. Maybe it's time we change things up and focus on different methods.”

Having the ability to defend oneself physically against a bully or aggressor is one thing, but having the self restraint and mind power to choose not to does not make one a sheep. There's more than one way to stand up for yourself, it doesn't need to require kicking a bully's ass.

Society has changed, whether we like it or not. Using fists to solve problems and vent anger and frustration just isn't the way things are done anymore. Instead I think those same kids would be far better served by teaching them how to communicate, express their feelings openly without being labeled as a sheep, and provide them with access to mental health services. We've tried the "Don't take any shit and punch that bully in the mouth" program for a long time and it hasn't gotten us too far. Maybe it's time we change things up and focus on different methods.

Never said going to Defcon One is appropriate for all situations… personally I hate fighting… but as I stated in the term diplomacy (same thing as your saying) fails, sometimes actions resonate a lot louder than words, especially with young boys with their emotional maturity/ability to translate thoughts into words. I’m merely stating the pendulum has swung from stupid to more of stupid and it’s not working. I do like the the approach I’ve been seeing of more young people standing up for those being picked on. Sure makes it hard for someone to go scorched earth when someone GENUINELY cares for you. In light of this dialogue, Nick… me thinks if you and I hit the water, had beers or beverage of your choice, we’d constructively solve all of the worlds problems and have a damn fine time. Cheers