The Mountain Whitefish, aka Short Fin Grayling thread

[Tom Butler]

Last winter instead of chasing steelhead I decided I would target whitefish. I had read about them so had some book learning, but in all my fishing I can't ever recall catching them. I figured winter would be a good time to target them as they tend to school and spawn in late fall and are known to hold together in large groups during the winter. In February I got my first two in the same pool. In my last couple outings I have been fortunate to catch a few. The other day I caught redbands, whitefish and a bull (by-catch and not to be pursed on purpose) all about the same size. I find the whitefish to be a fine fighter, cool looking in it's own way, and worthy to pursue, so as per the other conversation I'll get something started.
When I have found them, now fall and winter, it has been in large pools with structure like boulders.
I have to be deep at the bottom, otherwise I seem to get a trout, usually smaller.
I've been using a traditional 6 wt, mostly casting the weighted nymphs upstream and dead drifting, or swinging them into a soft spot and holding them there.
So far I have caught them on a beadhead hares ear, beadhead prince nymph, and one on a copper john.
I got some on size 8 hooks, but it looks so big in the fishes mouth. I downsized to 12, but that looks a bit big. A 10 prince nymph and 14 copper john worked. So I think I need smaller flies?, but how to get down, sink tip, drop shot rig (gross)? I saw a couple noses so I tied on a size 18 Griffiths gnat hopefully, but that fly seems so damn small! It did find tiny trout.
I have no clue where they are all summer?
I could really use some help from our knowledgeable group in my pursuit, and maybe some others will try it as well. Lets give the whitefish some love and respect it as the fine gamefish it is.

 

[Jim F.]

I have no clue where they are all summer?

Back home, summer Whitefish were most frequently seen feeding in tail-outs or somewhere near the end of a hole, at least in the cricks & rivers that I usually fished.

 

[Richard Olmstead]

Dredge fairly fast, deep runs with small nymphs in almost any western river that also holds trout and you will catch some whities. I find that in the summer they often form schools in these runs, too.

 

[TicTokCroc]

Your onto something here

 

[tkww]

My only complaint about them is that they don't stop struggling in the net, which makes them a royal PITA to unhook sometimes. Otherwise they're a fairly fun gamefish IMO. I can remember a decades-old great rise/take on the Yakima that turned out to be a whitey.

 

[Josh]

I find them most during salmon season. They are looking for eggs same as the bulls. Whitey has kept the skunk off many times for me.

Generally, a nymph rig of some sort will get them. Can't be too big because of their small-ish downturned mouths. but doesn't have to be tiny either. They also like things down deep it seems to me, try for the tic-tic-tic along the bottom. I've found them in deep pools, I've found them along seams, I've found them in non-shallow tailouts.

As far as I've been told, they school up in deep pools in the summer.

 

[clarkman]

These are all older pics, but I've always loved the variability in their noses...

short and stubby...

not so short and stubby...

 

[Tom Butler]

Generally, a nymph rig of some sort will get them. Can't be too big because of their small-ish downturned mouths. but doesn't have to be tiny either. They also like things down deep it seems to me, try for the tic-tic-tic along the bottom.

I tried tying some size 14 prince nymphs this morning, I'm really going to have to practice tying smaller stuff, they were ugly. I'm wondering if typically my flies are too big for them, sz 6 pats and muddlers and the like. I also wonder if I've developed a habit to be in the trout zone, not so deep that I hang up often. Maybe not fishing indicators and/or shot is limiting as well. So many unknowns only time on the water will help answer, but I'm going to be trying some new stuff. Probably take the ESN rod a little more often as well.
Suggestions from all welcome on flies and presentation preference..

 

[Pink Nighty]

I have to credit the whitefish with reigniting my love of flyfishing while in college. A trip to a park with a little creek near pullman had me watching what I thought were trout rising all over. Back a few days later with a Walmart rod and fly kit and started catching whiteys hand over fist. Subsurface to start, all of a sudden they'd start rippling the water and I'd tie on a dry as fast as I could. Can still see my favorite pool in my mind with whiteys all over the place.

Of course I brought my buddy out one time, he throws out a worm and bangs an 18" bow out of a foot of water. That was humbling to say the least.

 

[Tom Butler]

These are all older pics, but I've always loved the variability in their noses...

short and stubby...

not so short and stubby...

They are cute, but what I find exciting is when that clear fin on their back breaks the surface as they turn to power away. They jump too. Just a kick in my book.

 

[Canuck from Kansas]

When nymphing for Whities, I typically use a drop shot setup, with the bottom fly at full dangle maybe 2-3 inches above the tungsten putty. I want to feel the putty bouncing along the bottom. And they do school up. Most amazing thing, you can catch a bunch in the same hole, they don't seem to spook for long.

Cheers

 

[Tom Butler]

When nymphing for Whities, I typically use a drop shot setup, with the bottom fly at full dangle maybe 2-3 inches above the tungsten putty. I want to feel the putty bouncing along the bottom. And they do school up. Most amazing thing, you can catch a bunch in the same hole, they don't seem to spook for long.

Cheers

I have not done it in some time, but I think this winter I'll do some. Thanks for the tip. As a matter of fact I just pulled these from my panfish float gear.

 

[Old Man]

Did you read the regs on whitefish. They used to have a reg on hook size. No bigger that a size14. I tried to check the regs on this but trying to download the regs turned into a full time job. Why do they make things harder to pull up. Used to be just down load and away you go.

Edit. Yup. Hook size is a size 14 max. You can use bait. Maggots work good. I figured things out. I'm good now.

 

[Tom Butler]

Did you read the regs on whitefish. They used to have a reg on hook size. No bigger that a size14. I tried to check the regs on this but trying to download the regs turned into a full time job. Why do they make things harder to pull up. Used to be just down load and away you go.

I did check, thx, and about a decade ago they did away with the winter whitefish rules, and went to all species catch and release for the winter season.

 

[Old Man]

I have to credit the whitefish with reigniting my love of flyfishing while in college. A trip to a park with a little creek near pullman had me watching what I thought were trout rising all over. Back a few days later with a Walmart rod and fly kit and started catching whiteys hand over fist. Subsurface to start, all of a sudden they'd start rippling the water and I'd tie on a dry as fast as I could. Can still see my favorite pool in my mind with whiteys all over the place.

Of course I brought my buddy out one time, he throws out a worm and bangs an 18" bow out of a foot of water. That was humbling to say the least.

Was on the Beaverhead one day and the fish were rising like they were crazy. I asked why nobody was fishing and was told it was all whitefish.

 

[Old Man]

I did check, thx, and about a decade ago they did away with the winter whitefish rules, and went to all species catch and release for the winter season.

Might be but the current regs say just whitefish and hook size. Wouldn't want you to get a ticket for big hooks

 

[Long_Rod_Silvers]

Did you read the regs on whitefish. They used to have a reg on hook size. No bigger that a size14. I tried to check the regs on this but trying to download the regs turned into a full time job. Why do they make things harder to pull up. Used to be just down load and away you go.

Edit. Yup. Hook size is a size 14 max. You can use bait. Maggots work good. I figured things out. I'm good now.

Good call on whitey regs.
WDFW has a website now that makes it easier in my opinion to check out the regs without having to download the .pdf
The one nice thing about the .pdf was that you could download it in case you were out of signal but wanted to look something up.

Washington Fishing Seasons & Rules

Official Washington Fishing rules and regulations. License and permit information, season dates, size and creel limits and more.

www.eregulations.com

 

[Rio Grande King]

The Enchanted Prince, is one of the legions of spinoffs from Doug Prince’s original. He named the “Brown Forked Tail” and introduced it to his friend Buz Buszek. Fly tying lore has it that the fly was renamed by Buz Buszek when he included it in his 1940 catalog and forgot what Mr. Prince called it. The fly’s fame spread from there. In the bead-head iteration it is carried by almost everyone.

The Beadhead Prince holds a fatal attraction for Mountain Whitefish (Prosopium williamsoni).

A Butte outfitter once complained to Paul Redfern, canny proprietor of Fish-On, that his clients were catching nothing but whitefish on the Madison River. With only that information Paul knowingly asked, “Why don’t you fish something other than a Beadhead Prince?”.

The fairy tale-named version comes from Al and Gretchen Beatty. They tie them using Gary LaFontaine's “Double Magic” style; with golden russet antron touch dubbed and then both peacock and the antron dressed thread twisted in a dubbing loop.

On every peacock bodied fly I use a different technique; one taught by Al Troth. This approach takes advantage of the structure of the peacock feather itself. It makes lush, tapered peacock bodies every time.

If you look closely at an eyed peacock plume you’ll see that the length and quality of herl vary. The fullest flues are those 10 to 20 flues nearest the eye. One-armed fly tier Cliff Wyatt reportedly only used those first few full herls. The thinnest, scraggliest, weakest herls are toward the bottom of each feather. Which fibers do you suppose are most numerous in those string-bundled packs? Ideally a peacock body should be full and nicely tapered. So purchase eyed peacock feathers- you can afford them.

The flue on each herl is longest nearest the stem and tapers toward the tip. The fullest flue is on the top of each herl and gently curls rearward from the quill. Utilize that curl in a manner similar to winding a soft hackle. What we want is a body where each wrap pushes the long flue out and toward the rear while covering the stem of its preceding wrap

Use a few herls cut from the same side of an eyed feather. Contrary to common practice, secure the herls at their fullest portions at the front of the fly’s body. This will be toward the stem side-not the tips. Wrap to the rear (clockwise for herls from your left side with the eye facing you). Then capture the herls and reverse-wrap a rib to bind the wound herl in place. To prolong the body’s life you can coat the under thread with urethane cement or Super Glue prior to wrapping the peacock, but the reverse wrapping provides plenty of protection.

In the case of the Enchanted Prince the rib is comprised of the working thread after first inserting the antron into a split thread. You could form a dubbing loop or even touch dub here.

The Beattys puts their biot wings over the hackle in the standard wet fly style. I wrap a folded wet fly golden badger hackle in front of the wings and finish with a prominent florescent orange band behind the copper or orange bead. Both versions are absolutely irresistible to white fish.

ENCHANTED PRINCE
Hook: size-8 Tiemco 3761
Beadhead: 3/16” copper with 10-turns .015 lead, or substitute
1/8” Lucent hot orange tungsten.
Thread: Fluorescent orange 6/0 with prominent hot-spot band just behind the bead
Tail: Brown goose biots. Dark olive biots worth a try.
Body: Peacock herl- e.g. 3-strands from right side tied by butts, wrapped counterclockwise,
Rib: Orange (e.g. La Fontaine golden russet touch dub antron). Wrap working thread to rear, tie off peacock, split thread dub the antron, then reverse wrap. (CDC is well worth a try. I’ve worked in small orange wigglies at times)
Wings: White goose biots (I tie them curving up)
Hackle: Golden badger wet fly hackle. Tied in by tip, folded and wrapped 2-turns in front of wings

Nymphing for white fish on the Bitterroot occurs during Baseball Spring Training and serves much the same purpose for me. Several years ago I tied on an Enchanted Prince and have never looked back. The large size recommended is dictated by my staunch refusal to spend much time fiddling around unhooking whities- they'll engulf and gobslobber a smaller fly.

Can't ever remember catching a TROUT on one of these, but it may have happened.

 

[Tom Butler]

The Enchanted Prince, is one of the legions of spinoffs from Doug Prince’s original. He named the “Brown Forked Tail” and introduced it to his friend Buz Buszek. Fly tying lore has it that the fly was renamed by Buz Buszek when he included it in his 1940 catalog and forgot what Mr. Prince called it. The fly’s fame spread from there. In the bead-head iteration it is carried by almost everyone.

The Beadhead Prince holds a fatal attraction for Mountain Whitefish (Prosopium williamsoni).

A Butte outfitter once complained to Paul Redfern, canny proprietor of Fish-On, that his clients were catching nothing but whitefish on the Madison River. With only that information Paul knowingly asked, “Why don’t you fish something other than a Beadhead Prince?”.

The fairy tale-named version comes from Al and Gretchen Beatty. They tie them using Gary LaFontaine's “Double Magic” style; with golden russet antron touch dubbed and then both peacock and the antron dressed thread twisted in a dubbing loop.

On every peacock bodied fly I use a different technique; one taught by Al Troth. This approach takes advantage of the structure of the peacock feather itself. It makes lush, tapered peacock bodies every time.

If you look closely at an eyed peacock plume you’ll see that the length and quality of herl vary. The fullest flues are those 10 to 20 flues nearest the eye. One-armed fly tier Cliff Wyatt reportedly only used those first few full herls. The thinnest, scraggliest, weakest herls are toward the bottom of each feather. Which fibers do you suppose are most numerous in those string-bundled packs? Ideally a peacock body should be full and nicely tapered. So purchase eyed peacock feathers- you can afford them.

The flue on each herl is longest nearest the stem and tapers toward the tip. The fullest flue is on the top of each herl and gently curls rearward from the quill. Utilize that curl in a manner similar to winding a soft hackle. What we want is a body where each wrap pushes the long flue out and toward the rear while covering the stem of its preceding wrap

Use a few herls cut from the same side of an eyed feather. Contrary to common practice, secure the herls at their fullest portions at the front of the fly’s body. This will be toward the stem side-not the tips. Wrap to the rear (clockwise for herls from your left side with the eye facing you). Then capture the herls and reverse-wrap a rib to bind the wound herl in place. To prolong the body’s life you can coat the under thread with urethane cement or Super Glue prior to wrapping the peacock, but the reverse wrapping provides plenty of protection.

In the case of the Enchanted Prince the rib is comprised of the working thread after first inserting the antron into a split thread. You could form a dubbing loop or even touch dub here.

The Beattys puts their biot wings over the hackle in the standard wet fly style. I wrap a folded wet fly golden badger hackle in front of the wings and finish with a prominent florescent orange band behind the copper or orange bead. Both versions are absolutely irresistible to white fish.

ENCHANTED PRINCE
Hook: size-8 Tiemco 3761
Beadhead: 3/16” copper with 10-turns .015 lead, or substitute
1/8” Lucent hot orange tungsten.
Thread: Fluorescent orange 6/0 with prominent hot-spot band just behind the bead
Tail: Brown goose biots. Dark olive biots worth a try.
Body: Peacock herl- e.g. 3-strands from right side tied by butts, wrapped counterclockwise,
Rib: Orange (e.g. La Fontaine golden russet touch dub antron). Wrap working thread to rear, tie off peacock, split thread dub the antron, then reverse wrap. (CDC is well worth a try. I’ve worked in small orange wigglies at times)
Wings: White goose biots (I tie them curving up)
Hackle: Golden badger wet fly hackle. Tied in by tip, folded and wrapped 2-turns in front of wings

Nymphing for white fish on the Bitterroot occurs during Baseball Spring Training and serves much the same purpose for me. Several years ago I tied on an Enchanted Prince and have never looked back. The large size recommended is dictated by my staunch refusal to spend much time fiddling around unhooking whities- they'll engulf and gobslobber a smaller fly.

Can't ever remember catching a TROUT on one of these, but it may have happened.

I like that, and have come to like the hot spots.. I caught fish on this one in 10 or 12? with a peacock simiseal body, and one like it with rootbeer rubber tails.

 

[Wetswinger]

Years back on the Bitterroot we would use a simple fly that was florescent lime, yellow or orange thread slim body, with a short brown hackle, no tail. Size 14. Small shot above. We'd fish it soft hackle style in slow water, in the Winter. Cast across, upstream mend, let it sink, line tightens, fly swings up, bingo..