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Deleted member 1337
Guest
It’s ok to not have idiots investing in your bullet company.
Simms Bought for $192 Million
- Thread starter GOTY
- Start date
IMO, it looks like they're on the up and up. I don't think they would choose Bozeman just to make it easier for pissed off people to come pounding on their door.
Ouch! Those are all hunting/camping products and I wonder if they're more interested in the SIMMS clothing line than the wader side of the business. They seem under-invested in outdoor clothing to compliment their other brands.
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I guess you don't read customer complaints about product quality after a company moves manufacturing offshore compared to quality before the move. Even I've seen it in power tools. It's a real issue.
dflett68
Steelhead
No, I don't. I'm simply saying it's a myth to blame poor quality on cheap labor. Simms' commitment to quality will determine the quality of their product regardless of where it is produced. If they want the quality to stay at the same level it has always been, they can get that offshore. If they aren't committed to the same level of quality - it can go down just as fast in Montana as it could in China.
Unfortunately perception often prevails over reality. Hardy discovered this when they moved production out of the country.
It's not a myth and it is by no means just perception. Simms may remain committed to quality but they won't be there to inspect every production lot coming off the line more than any other firm who heads offshore staffs its own quality control team in remote facilities. You sound like the Chinese government economist on CNN a few years ago who kept repeating that U.S. consumers would see better quality goods if everyone moved manufacturing to China. Hasn't happened yet.
Economics sets in. Labors cost go up, firms are under highly competitive contracts, corners get cut. Some are almost imperceptible; some can be quite obvious.
HauntedByWaters
Life of the Party
Alternate reality: my friend tripped at the river and destroyed a $1K+ English Bougle. So I like my Korean Hardys and the real ones can stay in the safe. They are simple design, it’s not hard to outsource it and get equal use.
I've got a Hardy made in england and one made in korea - I can't notice a difference in quality. Aside from knowing what I paid for them.....
I'm sure someone somewhere could probably point out a thing or two, but they both sound fucking rad when a fish takes line, so I'm happy with both.
dflett68
Steelhead
it's a myth. perception is the playground of mythologies and emotion and is the domain of the marketing department. quality is measurable results.
your suggestion that a person or company can be committed to quality, but tolerate not getting it, makes me wonder what you think commitment means...
lots of notable brands get the quality they demand offshore. meanwhile, i doubt it would be hard to find examples of domestic manufacturers whose quality is substandard but benefit from the perception that location determines quality. the fact is everyone gets the quality they demand, no matter where they produce.
obviously for lots of people, where something is made, and who made it, deeply informs their idea of quality. but that's often rooted in feelings about people and culture, not objective testing of the materials, processes, or products in question.
GOTY
Steelhead
I'm reluctantly replying because it requires careful tip toeing around that race baiting. I'm responding because I think you're missing the point here that others are making.
In fly fishing gear there is often a massive difference in quality based on who made it, far more so than other industries. Obviously, who made it correlates to where it was made. There are a number of local rod and reel makers that produce products of a much higher quality than mass produced products made elsewhere. I'd even include modern Hardy's in the inferior category, both the made in England and made in Korea ones. Plenty of locally made options that are of superior quality for similar price points. Of course, there are also local rod and reel makers who's products are inferior to those. None of that is rooted with feelings about people or culture.
Really? Maybe I'm slow on the uptake here, but I haven't seen how this follows. i.e., Simms makes good waders in the U.S.; Patagonia makes good waders sourced offshore. Some rods made in the U.S. (Sage, Loomis, Scott) are good, but not inherently better than some sourced offshore (Beulah, Echo, Redington - certain models anyway). I guess I need some clear and cogent examples to understand the massive difference in quality you refer to.
dflett68
Steelhead
it's all good. the point seems to be getting lost a little, i'll point back to my original assertions, "it is a myth to blame poor quality on cheap labor." and "quality has nothing to do with location."
i don't disagree that consumers are noticing real differences in quality between offshore and premium domestic gear. the products you speak of aren't inferior because of where they were produced - that's a coincidence that is being misconstrued as a cause. they're designed and intended to be inferior as a matter of market strategy. to me, from a business perspective, the reasons for that are obvious and the race-baiting accusation is a great deal more contentious than i want to get involved with. not my intention at all.
much of what's made for mass IS less than top quality cause mass consumers tolerate it so brands design for it and enjoy the reduced cost of it. but for the manufacturer and the company contracting them - that's a strategy. they aren't asking for top quality but settling for less.
we're all using products every day that we think of as premium in their industry which are produced offshore for brands that are committed to quality, demand quality, and get quality.
GOTY
Steelhead
A simple example would be a farlex vs one of the current version Hardy's. The difference in quality, durability, tolerances, etc is huge. Took all of 2 small a run steelhead to blow up my "new" perfect. I was on day 1 of a 5 day trip with a free spooling hardy centerpin reel. Replaced the check, problem repeated itself, sold it, bought a farlex, and haven't looked back. Meanwhile folks have fished old Hardy reels for over a hundred years without any issue. The new stuff just isn't the same anymore unfortunately. I want an old one bad!!
Fully agree with you on rods. Meiser makes incredible rods with sourced blanks.
GOTY
Steelhead
Makes sense, I get what you're saying
Vista Outdoor Enters into Definitive Agreement to Sell Sporting Products Business to Czechoslovak Group for $1.91 Billion
Sale aligns with previous plan to separate the company and creates two separate highly focused businesses Transaction valued at approximately 5x enterprise value to Sporting Products Fiscal Year 2024 EBITDA, including estimated standalone costs Outdoor Products, recently rebranded as Revelyst...
Wait didn’t Vista just buy Simms?Vista Outdoor Enters into Definitive Agreement to Sell Sporting Products Business to Czechoslovak Group for $1.91 Billion
Sale aligns with previous plan to separate the company and creates two separate highly focused businesses Transaction valued at approximately 5x enterprise value to Sporting Products Fiscal Year 2024 EBITDA, including estimated standalone costs Outdoor Products, recently rebranded as Revelyst...news.vistaoutdoor.com
There is off shoring and than there is off shoring...Patagonia having clothing built in Viet Nam factories where they have strict quality and employee standards baked into the contract vs lowest bid gets a fulfillment contract in China.
Friends wife worked at Patagonia for decades in the quality control department...she said it was next to impossible to find manufacturers in the US that could fabricate their clothes in the quantity they required, much less compete on price. How many folks do we know that would like to sew on a prodution line?
Friends wife worked at Patagonia for decades in the quality control department...she said it was next to impossible to find manufacturers in the US that could fabricate their clothes in the quantity they required, much less compete on price. How many folks do we know that would like to sew on a prodution line?
