Leader Formulas: What are you using?

Jake Watrous

Legend
Forum Supporter
@Jake, thanks for posting your slack formula. As @Tom Butler said, it's helpful to see what others are doing. I have a question for you: do you often tie on 4x to 4x? How do you feel that works out? A lot of my dry fly work is with 4x, so I'm usually aiming to end the taper in 3x and then jump to 4x for the "tippet."
Oh, you could definitely do that, or just lengthen the 4x section to be your terminal tippet.


I just like to taper it a bit further as jumping from 3x to 6x is too much of a jump. Anything more than 2x doesn’t work very well down at the end in my experience.
 

tkww

Steelhead
Oh, you could definitely do that, or just lengthen the 4x section to be your terminal tippet.


I just like to taper it a bit further as jumping from 3x to 6x is too much of a jump. Anything more than 2x doesn’t work very well down at the end in my experience.
I definitely wouldn't go 3x to 6x--I wouldn't trust the knot if nothing else. I just don't use a lot of 6x for what I do, so I'm generally fine limited myself to 4x/5x. (Or just cutting back the 4x and going to 6x from there, if needed.)
 

Old Man

Just a useless Old Man.
Forum Legend
When I Spey fished, I used to tie up my own tapered leaders. But since I shake worse now, I just buy my tapered leaders. That saves me from getting frustrated when things don't go right. And things don't always go right when tying on a fly. Plus my fingers don't listen to my brain. But if I didn't laugh at myself, I'd probably just cry. It takes me about 5 minutes to tie on a fly. But I stick with it.😭
 

Tom Butler

Grandpa, Small Stream Fanatic
Forum Supporter
Oh, you could definitely do that, or just lengthen the 4x section to be your terminal tippet.


I just like to taper it a bit further as jumping from 3x to 6x is too much of a jump. Anything more than 2x doesn’t work very well down at the end in my experience.
I found that stepping down the tippets in order is a crucial part of keeping the three fly rigs from tangling especially when you may have to make a presentation at distance. The sz 16 spider is on 2x, softhacle on 3x, bead on 4x. Often the bead is on the 3x and something swims behind on 4. I think I was planning on running a stimulator but went with the black fly instead which worked fine.
20210624_3soft.jpg
 

Old Man

Just a useless Old Man.
Forum Legend
I found that stepping down the tippets in order is a crucial part of keeping the three fly rigs from tangling especially when you may have to make a presentation at distance. The sz 16 spider is on 2x, softhacle on 3x, bead on 4x. Often the bead is on the 3x and something swims behind on 4. I think I was planning on running a stimulator but went with the black fly instead which worked fine.
View attachment 2206
Your pretty brave throwing 3 flies. I have some problems with two in the wind. I'd have to be half nuts to throw 3 flies. And the way I tie set ups I'd never get 3 flies tied up.
 

Yard Sale

Life of the Party
Forum Supporter
As a knuckle dragging skater thrower I go 60-20-20 then add some tippet. It's best I don't think so much when trying to rise a steelhead(like how low my odds are).
 

Russell

Steelhead
Used to tie up all sorts of leaders. Just don't have the time anymore. Usually using strait mono or maybe a but with a tippet section. For trout I just started buying the pre maid leaders.
For trout I really used to like fishing the formula by george harvey.
I tied most of my leaders in Maxima and realized long ago that 40-25lb test was too heavy for the butt section.
 

jaredoconnor

Peabrain Chub
Forum Supporter
Used to tie up all sorts of leaders. Just don't have the time anymore. Usually using strait mono or maybe a but with a tippet section. For trout I just started buying the pre maid leaders.
For trout I really used to like fishing the formula by george harvey.
I tied most of my leaders in Maxima and realized long ago that 40-25lb test was too heavy for the butt section.

That's why I originally stopped using commercial leaders. They're usually made to give easy turn over, for beginners, and not for optimal presentation. That said, I'm sure there's good commercial leaders around these days.
 

SurfnFish

Legend
Forum Supporter
When I Spey fished, I used to tie up my own tapered leaders. But since I shake worse now, I just buy my tapered leaders. That saves me from getting frustrated when things don't go right. And things don't always go right when tying on a fly. Plus my fingers don't listen to my brain. But if I didn't laugh at myself, I'd probably just cry. It takes me about 5 minutes to tie on a fly. But I stick with it.😭
have a friend with Parkinsons...his hands shake so bad it is really tough for him to tie, so he uses Rio fly clips, makes changing flies much easier for him

1643863911083.png
 

Jake Watrous

Legend
Forum Supporter
Global fly fisher has a web version now.
I still use the excel version they distributed that works well.
That’s a fascinating website.
 
I just discovered this thread and ironically have been tying up some leaders as only my 2nd or 3rd efforts ever. I have been using the Orvis book on leaders and also have a copy of George Harvey's book. I think I finally have all the available Maxima Chameleon and Ultragreen for my needs and have that blood knot down now. A difference in how it rolls out has helped over my butchered up knotless leaders which were no longer as functional being shortened . I have been using the tippett rings and that is great. I have yet to try Harveys more simple 3 or 4 piece formulas. I am new to this so really appreciate all the above information on perspectives and opinions.. Once again thank you folks for all the information on ALL these topics. I just wish I had begun in fly fishing at least 15 years before I did as I would be further down the road than where I am but in the Alan Watt's... be here now mode... I am here and not anywhere else, but here, but damn there is so much to learn.
 

rattlesnake

Steelhead
Forum Supporter
Euro is really basic for me: 25' 8lb chameleon, 3' 8lb sighter, tippet ring (a little one), ~5' 5x fluoro (1st fly is off the tag here off a triple surgeons), 12-18" 5x to tool fly. If I drop an egg off this, it's only 8-10" off the eye.

I'm still undecided on my tiger setup. I was recently chatting with Brad Bohen about this reverse taper leader he uses. He's not sure why it works, just that it does for him.... He's been at the musky game for over 20 years, so I figured I'd try it out. 2-3' of 30lb, 2-3' of 40', 1' bite (he uses 60lb fluoro). I tried that formula out last time out and whaddya know, it worked VERY well. I have no clue how or why, but it just did for turning over all sorts of big stuff. I'm pretty good at dealing with large flies anyway, so I have no clue if that was part of it....¯\_(ツ)_/¯......total leader length on mine was about 6' including the bite portion on the floating line and I made it a touch short on the full sinker.
I thought a lot of those guys got away from using floro bite tippet. Are you still using it/what’s your experience with it? I had one bite off on 80lb floro, went to wire and haven’t gone back.
 

clarkman

average member
Forum Supporter
I thought a lot of those guys got away from using floro bite tippet. Are you still using it/what’s your experience with it? I had one bite off on 80lb floro, went to wire and haven’t gone back.
Never been broken off....yet. Brad says he has one bite off for every 100 fish. I've chatted with him in detail on this, he still sticks w fluoro...his is an opinion I trust. I'm not overly concerned since all of my flies are single barbless hooks and will slide right out. I've always felt I get a few more eats with fluoro than wire as well. That said, I do go back and forth on it at times, but always end up back with fluoro.

I also think that more of the OGs of the sport in the Midwest aren't so rigid in their thinking that you HAVE to use wire, even though 75% of them do.

The main players out here use wire, although Sturza uses both, so does Ed. I've mostly modeled my game after them when I first got into it.

Boils down to personal preference, and that's mine.
 

Tom Butler

Grandpa, Small Stream Fanatic
Forum Supporter
During this down time I was rebuilding my tight line leader. Here's where I'm at for a 10' rod. The line nail knot is between the reel and first guide for short work. Normally that knot will be about a foot out of the rod tip for most work. I can even cast 20' of line if I want easy. Tippett to suit fly size and depth. The knots run smooth but if I wanted to glue them would solarez thin, thick or flexible work well?20220221_122809.jpg
 

Jake Watrous

Legend
Forum Supporter
During this down time I was rebuilding my tight line leader. Here's where I'm at for a 10' rod. The line nail knot is between the reel and first guide for short work. Normally that knot will be about a foot out of the rod tip for most work. I can even cast 20' of line if I want easy. Tippett to suit fly size and depth. The knots run smooth but if I wanted to glue them would solarez thin, thick or flexible work well?View attachment 6235
I’ve done that for big game leaders. I use knot sense, myself. Massage it into the knot and hit it with a light. It’s a bit more flexible.

For tight line, though, I just rely on a 5 turn blood knot and call it a day. YMMV.
 

jaredoconnor

Peabrain Chub
Forum Supporter
During this down time I was rebuilding my tight line leader. Here's where I'm at for a 10' rod. The line nail knot is between the reel and first guide for short work. Normally that knot will be about a foot out of the rod tip for most work. I can even cast 20' of line if I want easy. Tippett to suit fly size and depth. The knots run smooth but if I wanted to glue them would solarez thin, thick or flexible work well?View attachment 6235

I tried UV resins and the knots still annoyed me, even with 8lb Amnesia as my thickest line. Nowadays, I just don't have any knots beyond 10ft of the terminal end, so they never go through the guides.
 

Jake Watrous

Legend
Forum Supporter
I tried UV resins and the knots still annoyed me, even with 8lb Amnesia as my thickest line. Nowadays, I just don't have any knots beyond 10ft of the terminal end, so they never go through the guides.
One of the reasons I run 20+ feet of chameleon between my fly line and when I start my indi and leader knots.
 

Tom Butler

Grandpa, Small Stream Fanatic
Forum Supporter
I tried UV resins and the knots still annoyed me, even with 8lb Amnesia as my thickest line. Nowadays, I just don't have any knots beyond 10ft of the terminal end, so they never go through the guides.
One of the reasons I run 20+ feet of chameleon between my fly line and when I start my indi and leader knots.
I started with 20' of the 20# chameleon, then 10', but just didn't care for the feel of it. Since I cut It down to 5' and spliced in a piece of 15# to step it down in front a while back I have more fly control.
I have not had a knot catch, YET, they are tied and trimmed really well. I'm sure the standards are based on more experience than I have and I may end up back there as I get better.
Looking at taking the 4wt off the spare spool and putting the 1/2 line on it and running the ultralight micro leader setup to compare how it works.
 
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