Leader Formulas: What are you using?

[Jake Watrous]

I love tying my own leaders since I can customize the performance, save a bunch, and, in my opinion, out-perform the expensive store-bought leaders. Below is what I've come up with but, as a perpetual student, I'm curious to know what other folks are tying and using.

In alphabetical order, then, here are what I've been using:

Bonefish: These are vacation fish for me, so I just go with the 50/50 method. It's easy to remember, easy to tie.
5' 30lb mono
2.5' 20lb mono
15" 15lb mono
2-2.5' 12lb mono

Dry Fly: This leader lands with automatic s-curves. I'm good at knots, not so great at dry fly presentation. Therefore:

20” 15lb Maxima Chameleon
20” 12lb Maxima Chameleon
8-10” (longer = more slack but less “power”) 8lb Maxima Chameleon
8-10” (longer = more slack but less “power”) 8lb Gold Stren (sometimes I can't find the dry fly once it lands. This points towards it and helps me.)
12” 2x nylon (not fluoro) tippet
12” 3x nylon (not fluoro) tippet
12-14” (more = more slack but less “power”) 4x nylon (not fluoro) tippet
18-48” (fly, wind, and conditions dependent) 4x/5x/6x nylon (not fluoro) tippet.

Mono Rig for Rivers- All-Purpose: Dry flies, throw indicators, jig streamers, etc. Will actually cast a fly like a fly line--at least on my rods.

~25’ - 20lb Maxima Chameleon.
2’ - 10lb Maxima Chameleon.
12” - 0x fluoro.
12” - 1x fluoro.
14” - 1x two-tone sighter (I like Cortland's black and white)
2mm Tippet ring
3'+ - 5x or 6x fluoro. Tag fly is tied 18" or so away from point fly using triple surgeon's knot on about 9" of a 1x heavier tippet than the point fly. Length of the tag is never longer than 1/2 distance between tag and point fly.

Mono Rig for Rivers - Pure Nymphing: Dirty, dirty nymphing. Cuts through the water and has very, very little drag.
24' - 5lb Maxima Chameleon.
2' - 4x two-tone sighter
3'+ - 5x or 6x fluoro. Tag fly is tied 18" or so away from point fly using triple surgeon's knot on about 9" of a 1x heavier tippet than the point fly. Length of the tag is never longer than 1/2 distance between tag and point fly.



Well, that's what I've got. What are your formulas?

 

[mcswny]

What's your go to for streamers?

 

[Jake Watrous]

What's your go to for streamers?

It depends.

Most of my streamer fishing is done in the Puget Sound, where I'll just use 4 to 9' of 10lb Maxima Chameleon (starts out at ~9, I replace it when it gets to about 4', and I'll save the 4' for future mono rigs).

In rivers, though, with small jigged streamers I'll usually just use the All-Purpose rig described above. If I'm throwing bigger stuff I'll cut it back to the 2' of Chameleon (saving the cut off stuff on an old tippet spool for future use) and add about 2' of 1x tippet, and add about 5' of 2x or 3x fluoro. If I really wanted to dial it in, or I was going to spend the day throwing bigger stuff, I might replace the 2' of 10lb Chameleon with 2' of 12lb to help it turn over better, but probably I'd just leave the 10lb on.

 

[Divad]

I’ve learned it’s best to keep multiple junctions to a minimum when chasing water where a fish of size might be. And yes I have a full leader building setup too. It’s going to be hard to hear it but dry flies on big fish it’s unfortunately not a DIY game for me. I’ll buy a tapered for that boat, 5lb isn’t 5lb once knotted and multiply odds across multiple knots and also knots and tapers for nymphing is a no go.

I use chameleon as a cheaper replaceable, if needed, polyleader of sorts.

7wt Single Hand Nymphing/Strmrs/Swing
- 4ft 25lb Chameleon
- Fluoro one piece to first fly. Grease the line above the indicator if worried about drag. Mono sometimes for swing or streamers.

*adjust chameleon lb to rod/fish/line

6-8wt Two Hand Swing/Strmrs (head/tips)
- 3ft 25lb Chameleon
- Fluoro/Mono of choice to fly

Basically just buy Chameleon in 25lb -> 6/8lb and you’re set for freshwater pnw. And tippet.

 

[Jake Watrous]

I’ve learned it’s best to keep multiple junctions to a minimum when chasing water where a fish of size might be. And yes I have a full leader building setup too. It’s going to be hard to hear it but dry flies on big fish it’s unfortunately not a DIY game for me. I’ll buy a tapered for that boat, 5lb isn’t 5lb once knotted and multiply odds across multiple knots and also knots and tapers for nymphing is a no go.

I use chameleon as a cheaper replaceable, if needed, polyleader of sorts.

7wt Single Hand Nymphing/Strmrs/Swing
- 4ft 25lb Chameleon
- Fluoro one piece to first fly. Grease the line above the indicator if worried about drag. Mono sometimes for swing or streamers.

*adjust chameleon lb to rod/fish/line

6-8wt Two Hand Swing/Strmrs (head/tips)
- 3ft 25lb Chameleon
- Fluoro/Mono of choice to fly

Basically just buy Chameleon in 25lb -> 6/8lb and you’re set for freshwater pnw. And tippet.

I agree in principle that junctions should be kept to a minimum for strength, and when chasing tarpon, etc, I do. Most of the time, though, I don't feel like they are hindering me. It's probably where I'm fishing. The biggest fish I've landed on any of the setups listed above, aside from the bonefish formula, was a conservatively-measured 28" brown (dry fly leader--I'm still unsure why it was even bothering to eat dries), so I doubt I've really found fish that test my knots and leaders.

 

[Tom Butler]

General purpose small stream trout: 5' butt from 3x tapered leader .021 to .010, 3' .010 sighter, ring then 2' each 1x 2x 3x, 2x 3x 3x, or 3x, 4x 5x. Usually 6-8" droppers for 3 flies, uni-knotted at surgeons tippet knots on 3 4 or 5x.
ESN 5' 20# chameleon, 5' 12# yellow stren (similar to amnesia), 18" sighter 2x, ring, 4-9' tippet as above
For general lake fishing I like a standard 9' tapered leader, no knots means less weed cleaning.
Still trying to figure these out
Streamer (usually fish on general rig) or 18" 15# ultragreen, 18" 10# ultragreen, 1-2' tippet to match fly size.
Lake indicator, 5' tapered butt, 4-10' 6# ultragreen, tippet

I really like building in a sighter section for moving water. I see many more takes than I feel.

 

[Dave Westburg]

I did 90% of my wet fly fishing on beaver ponds, low lakes and high lakes last year with this simple self tied leader.

3' of 8 lb Maxima flouro
3' of 6 lb Maxima flouro. I leave one of the ends of the blood knot or water know long enough to tie a dropper fly here.
3' of 4 lb Maxima flouro.

Easy to remember. I can tie a bunch of these leaders up in advance of the season. I buy the Maxima 200 yard leader wheels. They are way cheaper and last multiple seasons versus than the tiny 25 yard tippet dispensers you see in most fly shops.

This leader also works when swinging soft hackles. For really clear water and some streams I'll add 3' of 10 pound maxima to the butt section, bringing the total leader length to 12'.

 

[jaredoconnor]

I am confident that I have the most over-engineered leader setup on the whole internet.

I have 6ft of 30lb Powerflex (0.017in) permanently attached to my fly line. This makes up the butt section of all my leaders. I attach specialized leader sections onto this. I call them "leader tips" and they all start with a tippet ring, to reduce waste. As the 6ft section is consumed, from changing leader tips, I blood knot on a new piece and make it 6ft long again.

Light conventional leader tip:

• Tippet ring
• 5 turn clinch knot
• 3ft 20lb Powerflex (0.013in)
• Double surgeons knot
• 3ft 2x Powerflex (0.009in)
• 5 turn clinch knot
• Tippet ring
• 6 turn clinch knot
• 3ft 5x Suppleflex (0.006in)

Heavy conventional leader tip:

• Tippet ring
• 5 turn clinch knot
• 3ft 20lb Powerflex (0.013in)
• 5 turn clinch knot
• Tippet ring
• 6 turn clinch knot
• 3ft 2x Powerflex (0.009in)

Mono rig leader tip:

• Tippet ring
• 5 turn clinch knot
• 18ft 8lb Red Amnesia (0.011in)
• Double surgeons knot
• 3ft 7.2lb Tri-Color Cortland Indicator Mono (0.008in)
• 5 turn clinch knot
• Tippet ring
• 6 turn clinch knot
• 6ft 6x Fluoroflex Strong (0.005in)

I leave tags on all the knots, on the heavy conventional leader tip. If I want to approximate a sink tip, I attach split shot to the tags.

You're probably now wondering why anyone would do this. I prefer to carry one rod, so I needed to find a way to quickly switch between any technique. This lets me do that. I can change tips in about the amount of time it takes to change flies; I wrap the leader tip around my hand, cut it off at the tippet ring, put it in a zip lock bag and tie on the new one.

I use all this on a 10ft 3wt rod, with a 3wt line. I only fish for trout, on rivers. Sometimes I want to switch techniques even faster. In those circumstances, I usually take my other 10ft 3wt rod, which is set up exactly the same way.

 

[Jake Watrous]

I love all of the different styles and philosophies.

 

[Tom Butler]

I love all of the different styles and philosophies.

It's helpful to know what others are using. Gives me more confidence to try something new. I used to think rings were silly, but they were in the books and others used them, so I gave them a try.

 

[tkww]

I've done an awful lot of fishing with the 60/20/20 idea, usually starting with .020, or .017 if it's a 3/4 wt leader. I've fooled around with less taper sections and more. Meh. Getting everything "just right" helps with a bad cast/outer limits, but most of the time I'm leaning towards less junctions rather than more. (And being a better caster. ) I'm not particularly sold on the "never more than __ difference between sections.

I have enjoyed tying up 65/15/20 leaders for larger dries. I do think it helps with turnover.

I am of the belief that if you have any decent amount of weight on your rig, the "taper" just isn't really a factor. My dedicated indi leaders are just a butt large enough to prevent fly line bite (usually .017), a long section of straight that's 1) thick enough for a thingamabobber to not slip on and 2) long enough to get to the maximum depth I think I'm going to need. Then a tippet ring and 14-6" to the first fly and 12ish to the second fly. Split goes above the tippet ring.

This last year I did start fooling around with the slack leader formulas. After some usage this fall I'll be experimenting more. (One of my frustrations was switching from a #20 BWO to a #10 October Caddis. While it wasn't always clear to me what was going on (that directional, slanted, reflection-inducing light of fall), it was clear to me that the same rig wasn't appropriate for both, lol.

@Jake, thanks for posting your slack formula. As @Tom Butler said, it's helpful to see what others are doing. I have a question for you: do you often tie on 4x to 4x? How do you feel that works out? A lot of my dry fly work is with 4x, so I'm usually aiming to end the taper in 3x and then jump to 4x for the "tippet."

 

[jaredoconnor]

I have enjoyed tying up 65/15/20 leaders for larger dries. I do think it helps with turnover.

The latest hotness in dry fly leaders is to intentionally make them turn over poorly (relatively speaking). It takes some getting used to, but it definitely works. Devin Olsen has a video about his leader formula, on YouTube. That said, 20ft was too long for me. I went with 15ft, instead.

 

[Tom Butler]

I have a question for you: do you often tie on 4x to 4x? How do you feel that works out? A lot of my dry fly work is with 4x, so I'm usually aiming to end the taper in 3x and then jump to 4x for the "tippet."

I don't have an issue at 4x to 4x, I don't go 5x to 5x. I'm not much help as my dries are almost always on a dropper on top of a 2 or 3 fly rig. I will use appropriate size for a fly, 5x for 16, 3x or even 2x with a big stimulator (reduces twists as much as anything else).

 

[tkww]

The latest hotness in dry fly leaders is to intentionally make them turn over poorly (relatively speaking). It takes some getting used to, but it definitely works. Devin Olsen has a video about his leader formula, on YouTube. That said, 20ft was too long for me. I went with 15ft, instead.

I'm familiar. But my usage with that formula (65/15/20) was short-drift small stream stuff, where the hit is generally going to happen very quickly. Getting right in the lane was more important. Sometimes I'd stack the cast if I really needed to dial down the turnover.

My most recent experience this last fall with slack leaders involved much bigger water and much longer drifts. So I'll need to work out what's appropriate with very large dries vs very small dries for that scenario. The formula I used worked pretty well with small flies. The Oct Caddis pattern spent half the time on top of 2' of tippet because it simply wasn't turning over near enough at the (fly) end. If I had the room to do a perfect backcast it was better, but that wasn't always the option.

 

[mcswny]

I am confident that I have the most over-engineered leader setup on the whole internet.

I have 6ft of 30lb Powerflex (0.017in) permanently attached to my fly line. This makes up the butt section of all my leaders. I attach specialized leader sections onto this. I call them "leader tips" and they all start with a tippet ring, to reduce waste. As the 6ft section is consumed, from changing leader tips, I blood knot on a new piece and make it 6ft long again.

Light conventional leader tip:

• Tippet ring
• 5 turn clinch knot
• 3ft 20lb Powerflex (0.013in)
• Double surgeons knot
• 3ft 2x Powerflex (0.009in)
• 5 turn clinch knot
• Tippet ring
• 6 turn clinch knot
• 3ft 5x Suppleflex (0.006in)

Heavy conventional leader tip:

• Tippet ring
• 5 turn clinch knot
• 3ft 20lb Powerflex (0.013in)
• 5 turn clinch knot
• Tippet ring
• 6 turn clinch knot
• 3ft 2x Powerflex (0.009in)

Mono rig leader tip:

• Tippet ring
• 5 turn clinch knot
• 18ft 8lb Red Amnesia (0.011in)
• Double surgeons knot
• 3ft 7.2lb Tri-Color Cortland Indicator Mono (0.008in)
• 5 turn clinch knot
• Tippet ring
• 6 turn clinch knot
• 6ft 6x Fluoroflex Strong (0.005in)

I leave tags on all the knots, on the heavy conventional leader tip. If I want to approximate a sink tip, I attach split shot to the tags.

You're probably now wondering why anyone would do this. I prefer to carry one rod, so I needed to find a way to quickly switch between any technique. This lets me do that. I can change tips in about the amount of time it takes to change flies; I wrap the leader tip around my hand, cut it off at the tippet ring, put it in a zip lock bag and tie on the new one.

I use all this on a 10ft 3wt rod, with a 3wt line. I only fish for trout, on rivers. Sometimes I want to switch techniques even faster. In those circumstances, I usually take my other 10ft 3wt rod, which is set up exactly the same way.

You ever use rigging foam instead of plastic bags?

 

[jaredoconnor]

You ever use rigging foam instead of plastic bags?

Yep. That's what I used, originally. They make it too slow to wrap up the line.

At some point I would like to experiment with some sort of clip, on my vest. However, I haven't had time.

 

[Tom Butler]

You ever use rigging foam instead of plastic bags?

I tried the foam circles but didn't care for them. Maybe I'm just used to bags.

 

[clarkman]

Euro is really basic for me: 25' 8lb chameleon, 3' 8lb sighter, tippet ring (a little one), ~5' 5x fluoro (1st fly is off the tag here off a triple surgeons), 12-18" 5x to tool fly. If I drop an egg off this, it's only 8-10" off the eye.

I'm still undecided on my tiger setup. I was recently chatting with Brad Bohen about this reverse taper leader he uses. He's not sure why it works, just that it does for him.... He's been at the musky game for over 20 years, so I figured I'd try it out. 2-3' of 30lb, 2-3' of 40', 1' bite (he uses 60lb fluoro). I tried that formula out last time out and whaddya know, it worked VERY well. I have no clue how or why, but it just did for turning over all sorts of big stuff. I'm pretty good at dealing with large flies anyway, so I have no clue if that was part of it....¯\_(ツ)_/¯......total leader length on mine was about 6' including the bite portion on the floating line and I made it a touch short on the full sinker.

 

[tkww]

I'm still undecided on my tiger setup. I was recently chatting with Brad Bohen about this reverse taper leader he uses. He's not sure why it works, just that it does for him.... He's been at the musky game for over 20 years, so I figured I'd try it out. 2-3' of 30lb, 2-3' of 40', 1' bite (he uses 60lb fluoro). I tried that formula out last time out and whaddya know, it worked VERY well. I have no clue how or why, but it just did for turning over all sorts of big stuff. I'm pretty good at dealing with large flies anyway, so I have no clue if that was part of it....¯\_(ツ)_/¯......total leader length on mine was about 6' including the bite portion on the floating line and I made it a touch short on the full sinker.

What were the shortcomings of a more conventional formula?

 

[clarkman]

What were the shortcomings of a more conventional formula?

None. I was just curious. Of course, by conventional, it would have just swapped the positioning of the 30 & 40.

Honestly though, I've gone straight 30, straight 40, 40-30 with a swivel...It all has worked.

Shoot, my Dryfly leader for trout often ends up being 3' 15, 4' 10, to 4x tippet...still works just fine.