Balanced leech LDRs

Wayne Kohan · Mar 30, 2023

I fish lakes almost exclusively, except for swinging for steelhead in the winters. I have done well with balanced leeches. This winter I tied up a bunch of balanced leeches on size 12 and 14 barbless jig hooks. I was fishing a couple weeks ago from my boat and hooked up multiple times but lost the fish each time, like 5-6 times in a row. (I heard other fishermen talking “Wow, he has another one! And he lost it again!“). I did check my hook each time and it was not bent. I finally changed flies, similar hook and landed every fish after that. Then I went out yesterday, new fly with similar hook and proceeded to lose several again. I tried bending the hook more closed but that did not help. Changed flies, landed fish without problems. I don’t remember having these issues in the past, but never used barbless hooks, but just pinched barbs. Anyone else have this issue with barbless jig hooks fished as balanced leeches? I have fished these hooks as jigged leeches without the same problems. Is the head pin causing an issue? I wonder if it’s an issue with leverage of the pull on the line. I really hate to throw all those flies away, they seem to be fish magnets, magnets without staying power.

Wayne

troutpocket · Mar 30, 2023

I’ve had some barbless hooks with fine points that are prone to getting “tweaked” after a few fish. I’ve experienced missed takes resulting from this situation. But generally the barbless jig hooks I use for balanced patterns work well. Lately I have been using umpqua 60-degree heavy wire hooks. Sharp and stout.

Tim L · Mar 30, 2023

Give 'em to Steve snd Lue for Christmas

skyriver · Mar 30, 2023

Most of my balanced leeches are on a limerick bend type hook and I crimp the barbs. I did catch a couple on this one at Lenice with no LDRs:

How big is the bead?

I tie a green & black bugger with a fairly heavy white bead and my LDR rate with it is a little too high for my liking. My theory is that the bead is too big/heavy for the size of the fly so it makes it easier for the fish to shake it out. It generates great action because of that too and probably is one of the reasons I do well with it. I mean, stripped streamers result in many more LDRs than most bobber fishing anyway, but I think I'm going to try a lighter bead. Here's my bugger-

Billy · Mar 31, 2023

What brand? I'm not a fan of jig hooks that bend way in like a firehole stick. I like a bigger gap personally.

_WW_ · Mar 31, 2023

Billy said:
What brand? I'm not a fan of jig hooks that bend way in like a firehole stick. I like a bigger gap personally.

Too large of a bead also reduces the hook gap.

Jake Watrous · Mar 31, 2023

How quickly are the fish coming off?

Wayne Kohan · Mar 31, 2023

Jake said:
How quickly are the fish coming off?

After about 5-10 seconds, so hooked for a bit. I hooked a pig at Quincy that took me straight down and did a ton of head shakes. I got him next to the boat before I pulled the hook out. Most all of them are hooked well enough and long enough to release my indicator.

Wayne Kohan · Mar 31, 2023

Wayne Kohan · Mar 31, 2023

So, of the two leeches above, one of them lost fish and the other held fish, I believe it was the black bead one that would not hold the fish.

Lue Taylor · Mar 31, 2023

I ty mine the Phil Rowley way with stick pin for bead on a jig hook also make sure the the eye of hook angles down before i put any material on it so once it's has material it should balance level and I do put the fly in hot water before brushing out the material

_WW_ · Mar 31, 2023

Wayne Kohan said:
View attachment 59894 View attachment 59895

Here's the functional hook gap.

Stonedfish · Mar 31, 2023

Line slack can also be an issue when using barbless hooks. It really doesn’t take much if tension is lost.
Even with netted fish, many times the fly will come free as soon as tension is reduced.
Me personally, I’d rather hook up and lose fish then not hook up at all.
SF

Billy · Mar 31, 2023

Wayne Kohan said:
View attachment 59894 View attachment 59895

You can try bending the hook out ever so slightly. @Irafly did that to some of mine a long time ago. I lost confidence in that specific hook at the time and just switched brands.

I believe it has to do with leverage and the angle of the hook point causing weak penetration.

Billy · Mar 31, 2023

_WW_ said:
Here's the functional hook gap.
View attachment 59898

This isn't correct. Hook gap refers to the point of the hook to the shank of the hook.

_WW_ · Mar 31, 2023

Billy said:
This isn't correct. Hook gap refers to the point of the hook to the shank of the hook.

You are correct in that is the technical and legal definition. However, in certain fishing situations, functionally, the gap can be reduced by the jig bend, or a bead, or both.

Jake Watrous · Mar 31, 2023

Wayne Kohan said:
After about 5-10 seconds, so hooked for a bit. I hooked a pig at Quincy that took me straight down and did a ton of head shakes. I got him next to the boat before I pulled the hook out. Most all of them are hooked well enough and long enough to release my indicator.

Well, there go my hypotheses.

Following to learn more.

Wayne Kohan · Mar 31, 2023

Billy said:
You can try bending the hook out ever so slightly. @Irafly did that to some of mine a long time ago. I lost confidence in that specific hook at the time and just switched brands.

I believe it has to do with leverage and the angle of the hook point causing weak penetration.

Interesting, I actually tried bending the hook in to close the gap, thinking it would hold the fish better, like a circle hook. It did not hold the next fish.

Wayne Kohan · Mar 31, 2023

Stonedfish said:
Me personally, I’d rather hook up and lose fish then not hook up at all.
SF

I agree, but it seems that I hook way more fish than I land. I haven't even talked about my knot tying problems with 6 pound Seagar fluoro...... That's a whole 'nother issue.

Buzzy · Mar 31, 2023

_WW_ said:
You are correct in that is the technical and legal definition. However, in certain fishing situations, functionally, the gap can be reduced by the jig bend, or a bead, or both.

I can’t see the hook eye on Wayne’s left fly but the distance between the eye ad hook point on the right fly is less than if the hook was a more standard nymph hook. I’m clueless if that’s what is causing Wayne’s LDR problem.

Sometimes I have a poor hook to land ratio, sometimes I do much better. I attribute this to it is what it is.