10ft Echo Ion XL Input

[Evan B]

Wow, I just looked, the ion is 5.8oz. My 10' 6wt stillwater is 3.2. I use the fighting butt, and it balances with a lamson remix 5 . I had only compared it to the Lago at 4.1 oz. when shopping. Not to heavy to tight line or bobber fish moving water either.

The ION is heavy because it uses lower modulus graphite. It goes for durability/workhorse quality over the finesse/sensitivity of a high modulus rod like the Stillwater. For the light rods, you're sacrificing durability, which matters on things like guide boats or people who are rough on their gear. I'd say for a large number of people, especially guides/lodges, a tank like the ION is the way to go. Pluses and minuses to both.

 

[Jake Watrous]

Carbon and Ion are literally the same rod in different sizes. The only difference in the 9' 6wts (the only overlap) is the Ion has a fighting butt.

Huh. The 906 sure seemed very heavy when he was casting it--seemingly far more than the fb would account for.

Guess it's a case of the wand choosing the wizard.

 

[Evan B]

Huh. The 906 sure seemed very heavy when he was casting it--seemingly far more than the fb would account for.

Guess it's a case of the wand choosing the wizard.

Trust me, you're not the only one to say similar things. You have no idea how many times we have people, even our dealers, say they wished the ION would go down to smaller sizes or the Carbon to larger sizes.

(yes, I'm doing something I usually don't which is weigh in on threads about ECHO... but given my recent announcements elsewhere, you can see why I'm ok with that now... I should probably spill the beans in another thread sooner than later huh )

 

[Divad]

One other tidbit, I dislike the grip profile on mine and will probably regrip it at some point. The tapered section of cork that gets thin is too thin for a 7wt rod, hard to hold in my opinion.

 

[jaredoconnor]

Even after fly fishing for 30yrs, and working for fly rod and reel companies for over a decade, I still don't know what the hell "balance" is supposed to mean.

If it doesn't feel balanced to you, adjust your grip. We're talking about ounces here, not pounds.

I like the rod to balance relatively low down on the cork. It feels better to me, when casting. There's probably all kinds of theories as to why that is bad, but I really don't like the feel of a tip heavy outfit. With the full wells grip, I imagine one can't just grip higher.

Carbon and Ion are literally the same rod in different sizes. The only difference in the 9' 6wts (the only overlap) is the Ion has a fighting butt.

I had a good experience with the 9ft 6wt Carbon XL, so this is good to hear.

If that were true though, how is the Ion XL considered "fast action"? The Carbon XL seemed very moderate, to me. Also, where does all the extra weight come from? I can't imagine the fighting butt weighs that much.

 

[Evan B]

I like the rod to balance relatively low down on the cork. It feels better to me, when casting. There's probably all kinds of theories as to why that is bad, but I really don't like the feel of a tip heavy outfit. With the full wells grip, I imagine one can't just grip higher.



I had a good experience with the 9ft 6wt Carbon XL, so this is good to hear.

If that were true though, how is the Ion XL considered "fast action"? The Carbon XL seemed very moderate, to me. Also, where does all the extra weight come from? I can't imagine the fighting butt weighs that much.

I know the blanks are all based on the same taper and the same graphite is used. They designed them all as one series then split it in to two labels. I did just check, and the ION does have a bit more power in the lower section, so there is a bit more material there, which isn't too uncommon for a series that spans that many rods. They did decide to make the 6wt ION a bit more powerful than the 6wt Carbon (just asked).

 

[Wetswinger]

Just a comment from a bird on the wire... It's hard for me to imagine that people would think that a rod that only cost $200 should be some kind of life changing perfection. I build rods for a hobby and without even charging for my labor can barely fit into that $200 price bracket. The parts alone,, for just average quality, hover around $180. It amazes me that Echo can make and warranty such fine rods for such little cash. It's simple. If this fabulous bargain of a rod isn't up your exacting needs, open up your wallet and look elsewhere...

 

[jaredoconnor]

Just a comment from a bird on the wire... It's hard for me to imagine that people would think that a rod that only cost $200 should be some kind of life changing perfection. I build rods for a hobby and without even charging for my labor can barely fit into that $200 price bracket. The parts alone,, for just average quality, hover around $180. It amazes me that Echo can make and warranty such fine rods for such little cash. It's simple. If this fabulous bargain of a rod isn't up your exacting needs, open up your wallet and look elsewhere...

Most of my favorite rods were $200-300. I have owned more expensive rods and I was almost always disappointed.

I'm not expecting perfection; I merely want to make sure I have the right expectations.

 

[BriGuy]

I like the rod to balance relatively low down on the cork. It feels better to me, when casting. There's probably all kinds of theories as to why that is bad, but I really don't like the feel of a tip heavy outfit. With the full wells grip, I imagine one can't just grip higher.



I had a good experience with the 9ft 6wt Carbon XL, so this is good to hear.

If that were true though, how is the Ion XL considered "fast action"? The Carbon XL seemed very moderate, to me. Also, where does all the extra weight come from? I can't imagine the fighting butt weighs that much.

IIRC, the ION XL is listed as medium-fast.

 

[BriGuy]

Most of my favorite rods were $200-300. I have owned more expensive rods and I was almost always disappointed.

I'm not expecting perfection; I merely want to make sure I have the right expectations.

I don't think you'll find much better at that price. I'm extremely pleased with mine.

 

[jaredoconnor]

I have come to the conclusion that I will buy the 10ft 6wt and continue using my lightweight 6wt reels, but I will also buy some of the anal beads below to address any balance issues. I'm going to eschew minimalism and keep my 9 footer, because it's sounding like the 10 footer will be a bit of work. Thanks for the input, all!

Finn Fly Fishing Fly Rod Balancing Kit

I've used lots of different tricks to balance my euro nymph rods over the years, but I recently tried this Finn Fly Rod Balancing kit to balance some of my longer nymph rods and have been pleased with the results. With a simple snap of the magnet around the rod I have quickly moved the balance...

www.tacticalflyfisher.com

 

[Evan B]

I have come to the conclusion that I will buy the 10ft 6wt and continue using my lightweight 6wt reels, but I will also buy some of the anal beads below to address any balance issues.

Finn Fly Fishing Fly Rod Balancing Kit

I've used lots of different tricks to balance my euro nymph rods over the years, but I recently tried this Finn Fly Rod Balancing kit to balance some of my longer nymph rods and have been pleased with the results. With a simple snap of the magnet around the rod I have quickly moved the balance...

www.tacticalflyfisher.com

I can't explain how triggered this photo gets me


"here's a rod not balancing at an arbitrary point on the handle!"

it would "balance" if he moved his finger ever so slightly toward the reel. Not to mention that last I checked, that isn't how you hold a fly rod. I like to use my whole hand, personally.

 

[Peyton00]

Balance????

When walking to the fishing hole?
With 15ft line out the tip?
With 30 ft line out the tip?
With 60ft line out the tip?

Balance talk is for the clueless and/or the nerds that don't know they are clueless.

If ya put a 12wt reel on a 3wt rod.....you are clueless.

 

[Matt B]

I can't explain how triggered this photo gets me
View attachment 53264

"here's a rod not balancing at an arbitrary point on the handle!"

it would "balance" if he moved his finger ever so slightly toward the reel. Not to mention that last I checked, that isn't how you hold a fly rod. I like to use my whole hand, personally.

I am pretty sure there is no fly line on there. No fly line, no fly casting. No fly casting...maybe that is when you fish with your index finger that way, I dunno.

 

[Evan B]

Balance????

When walking to the fishing hole?
With 15ft line out the tip?
With 30 ft line out the tip?
With 60ft line out the tip?

Balance talk is for the clueless and/or the nerds that don't know they are clueless.

If ya put a 12wt reel on a 3wt rod.....you are clueless.

I know it's being a bit harsh... but yeah. When Tim Rajeff himself says that this is not something he thinks about at all, to me, that means something. I've personally never once thought about it while fishing. And like you say, the amount of line, the current, and a whole lot of other things make a bigger difference than an ounce here or there. At least in my opinion.

 

[jaredoconnor]

I know it's being a bit harsh... but yeah. When Tim Rajeff himself says that this is not something he thinks about at all, to me, that means something. I've personally never once thought about it while fishing. And like you say, the amount of line, the current, and a whole lot of other things make a bigger difference than an ounce here or there. At least in my opinion.

I have owned multiple outfits that were tip-heavy enough that it was uncomfortable to carry them by the grip, because I had to clench my fist the whole time or the tip would hit the ground. The only alternative was to carry them with my hand on the blank, which was worse. This problem plagues high end "ultra light" fly rods, where all they do is strip weight out of the reel seat; carbon fiber hasn't magically become that much lighter, in the last 2 decades.

I don't think balance matters during casting, because you're waving something around in the air anyway. It does matter, to me, when actually fishing or walking; I hate having to clench my fist, just to keep the tip in the position that I want. It's also much more comfortable to maneuver a butt-heavy rod than a tip-heavy one. Hold a broom by the broom end vs. the stick and and tell me which one feels better. This shouldn't be controversial.

 

[jaredoconnor]

Balance????

When walking to the fishing hole?
With 15ft line out the tip?
With 30 ft line out the tip?
With 60ft line out the tip?

Balance talk is for the clueless and/or the nerds that don't know they are clueless.

If ya put a 12wt reel on a 3wt rod.....you are clueless.

I think I'll take the opinion of guide and fly fishing champion "Devin Olsen", over internet rando "Peyton00".

 

[Evan B]

I have owned multiple outfits that were tip-heavy enough that it was uncomfortable to carry them by the grip, because I had to clench my fist the whole time or the tip would hit the ground. The only alternative was to carry them with my hand on the blank, which was worse. This problem plagues high end "ultra light" fly rods, where all they do is strip weight out of the reel seat; carbon fiber hasn't magically become that much lighter, in the last 2 decades.

I don't think balance matters during casting, because you're waving something around in the air anyway. It does matter, to me, when actually fishing or walking; I hate having to clench my fist, just to keep the tip in the position that I want. It's also much more comfortable to maneuver a butt-heavy rod than a tip-heavy one. Hold a broom by the broom end vs. the stick and and tell me which one feels better. This shouldn't be controversial.

As a proud user of cheap equipment, I can't relate

I can see your take on it. I have just talked to far too many people over the years worried about balance and they can't articulate what they mean by that. You're one of the few I've seen who can actually say what it does mean to you. Most just worry and nitpick about it because they read somewhere that it was something to nitpick about.

 

[jaredoconnor]

As a proud user of cheap equipment, I can't relate

I can see your take on it. I have just talked to far too many people over the years worried about balance and they can't articulate what they mean by that. You're one of the few I've seen who can actually say what it does mean to you. Most just worry and nitpick about it because they read somewhere that it was something to nitpick about.

Yeah. I get that.

I will add that there are times where a tip heavy outfit is desirable. For example, if you're jerk-stripping streamers (particularly from an elevated position), it is nice when the tip just naturally points downward.

 

[_WW_]

I've wagged both a 9' and 10' 6 wt, and due to the noticeable difference in weight and 'snap', two of the four rods in my skiff are 9' 6 wt XL's.

From a review of both rods -

• Literal Weight: This is not the lightest rod in its category, and all-day casting can be fatiguing. The 10-foot model feels significantly heavier while casting than the 9-foot model.

https://www.curated.com/journal/1197000/expert-review-echo-ion-xl-fly-rod

The writer of that review needs surrender his man card. Fatigued my ass!

All this balance BS goes right out the window when you hook up. Sets me to cursing up a storm every time it happens.