NFR: The War in Ukraine

Dustin Chromers said:
Critique of policy is fair game I think. I don't care who makes bad policy. If it's bad policy it's bad policy. You know like draining oil reserves instead of moving towards energy independence. That's bad policy that hurts the American people and should be discussed fairly. That can be done without lambasting the man or woman creating said bad policy. I don't think it's a big secret who is creating said policies but the policy itself should be up for examination. It's far more productive to focus on the ideas and policy than get into the name calling or even naming of names in some cases.

Yes people do it. Yes it detracts from their message and ideas. No I'm not perfect in this respect either. Yes I try. Yes I would like to have a genuine discussion about these things. Yes I think being energy dependant is absurd and foolish. No I don't want to have open season on polluting the place. Yes I think there can be a balance. No, I do not fear the admin for stating an unpopular view so long as done fairly and with tact.
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Amen regarding policy critiques.

The oil reserve thing is a dog and pony show that just makes it seem like something is being done. I remember quite a few administrations have done it and it always strikes me as odd. It's similar to the home heating fuel subsidies assistance programs in the Northeast. We would be way ahead if we used that money to upgrade the actual heating systems to something better than diesel fuel.

Ethanol is another example. No one on this board seems to like it at all. A lot of this has to do with corn and the farm bill/ cheap food policy that is endemic to our system as currently constructed. Ethanol itself isn't awful. Ethanol from corn is awful. We grow so much damn corn though that we need to justify a market outside of creating Dr. Peppers and Captain Crunch. It's not emblematic of a real change away from fossil fuels or towards energy independence though. It's just good old fashioned policy used to cater to corn states and agribusiness. It actually just deepens our reliance on liquid petroleum fuel.

I would love energy independence. It should be a nearly universal goal for the USA. I would love a move away from fossil fuels as it is finite and is unlikely to lead to energy independence . I see no real compelling reason that we aren't moving faster towards electric cars and new ways to create, conserve and store electricity. There is plenty of electricity and potential electricity in all parts of the country. We seem to lack the will to make a sacrifice for the betterment of our collective national position in the world.

I think that this get's back to your point regarding critiquing a policy vs attacking a person (who likely represents a large group of Americans). If we see half the US population as the enemy and demonize large swaths of fellow Americans, we become weaker as a country. This is a fact that Mr. Putin not only understands but exploits at every turn. When we debate ideas and policy; when we are willing to be honest with our own data to support our positions; we improve as a nation. The USA has become every tribe for themselves. That makes improvement even harder.
 
Zak said:
I hope it is not too long before there are affordable, basic electric cars with swappable batteries and stations where you can swap them. Like propane cylinders. I don't want fancy navigation systems, just decent speakers and a screen that will mirror my phone.otor combo and which body to have dropped on top of it.
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Modularity is the future of E-vehicles. Multiple bodies that can be dropped onto common platforms. Batteries changed at drive in replacement stations. Current issue is E-vehicles use 10X the amount of computer chips as an equivalent modern gas vehicle, a major obstacle during a global chip shortage that maintains China's leverage on us. And it is projected that millions of jobs will be lost if we went primarily E-vhicle - mechanics, parts factories, parts houses, oil changers, gasoline stations, truckers supporting the industry, etc.
One thing we can do if congress would ever stop this culture war and actually go to work is declare computer chips a national security emergency and provide industry incentives to home grow the next generation of chip manufacturers.
Intel is building a new 3B chip plan in OR, offerring free three week intensive learning clinics for those who want to be given access to chip manufacturing jobs. Home growing those chip mills will offset many of lost jobs in the gas industry via the building, care and feeding of them as well as direct employment in production.
53 years ago we sent folks to the moon during a time when very few vehicles had a chip in them. We can do anything united, nothing divided.
 
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charles sullivan said:
Amen regarding policy critiques.

The oil reserve thing is a dog and pony show that just makes it seem like something is being done. I remember quite a few administrations have done it and it always strikes me as odd. It's similar to the home heating fuel subsidies assistance programs in the Northeast. We would be way ahead if we used that money to upgrade the actual heating systems to something better than diesel fuel.

Ethanol is another example. No one on this board seems to like it at all. A lot of this has to do with corn and the farm bill/ cheap food policy that is endemic to our system as currently constructed. Ethanol itself isn't awful. Ethanol from corn is awful. We grow so much damn corn though that we need to justify a market outside of creating Dr. Peppers and Captain Crunch. It's not emblematic of a real change away from fossil fuels or towards energy independence though. It's just good old fashioned policy used to cater to corn states and agribusiness. It actually just deepens our reliance on liquid petroleum fuel.

I would love energy independence. It should be a nearly universal goal for the USA. I would love a move away from fossil fuels as it is finite and is unlikely to lead to energy independence . I see no real compelling reason that we aren't moving faster towards electric cars and new ways to create, conserve and store electricity. There is plenty of electricity and potential electricity in all parts of the country. We seem to lack the will to make a sacrifice for the betterment of our collective national position in the world.

I think that this get's back to your point regarding critiquing a policy vs attacking a person (who likely represents a large group of Americans). If we see half the US population as the enemy and demonize large swaths of fellow Americans, we become weaker as a country. This is a fact that Mr. Putin not only understands but exploits at every turn. When we debate ideas and policy; when we are willing to be honest with our own data to support our positions; we improve as a nation. The USA has become every tribe for themselves. That makes improvement even harder.
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And there you have it. I agree with you a hundred percent. This bolsters my theory that despite the nasty rhetoric and the need to self identify into one tribe or another Americans essentially are after and want the same things.

I would only add to the above that we can as a nation do two things at once and transition in a way to minimise pain on the people. We absolutely should be preparing our grid for the electric cars of the now and future. We can also source our own oil. We can even still at the same time innovate with combustion vehicles. Doing one thing or another so drastically plays well for media and votes. It's not ultra practical though. At the current moment an electric vehicle isn't practical for many Americans. That doesn't make them bad Americans. Doing both and letting the market slowly form around superior technologies is both diverse and in an evolutionary way survival of the fittest. Only instead of biology we are dealing with technology. I'm all for a better mouse trap. But it's gotta be a mouse trap that works on the type of mice I'm trapping.
 
Zak said:
The Redbreast 12, again! I liked it so much I bought 2 bottles. I'll drink a toast to you for recommending it!

"where do you think electricity comes from" ... Thus my reconsideration of nuclear power.

Totally agree that electric cars are out of reach for a lot of people, and don't meet some people's needs. But the end of the age of oil has to come sometime, why wait till the bitter end?
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49F363C3-0BA7-4B4F-97EA-71FAE58548A7.jpeg

LOL!
 
Redbreast is delicious.

Ethanol is only added to gasoline to appease the corn lobby; it has ZERO benefit to engines, the consumer, or the environment. Indeed, it only makes things more expensive, but at least corn farmers will be happy.

Finally, on a closely-related note, government policy is largely determined by lobbying. This explains (entirely) why, despite the fact there were electric cars that could go 60 mph in the 1980s, internal combustion is still king in all industries. We CAN do better; it's a question of people with better ideas spending more in Washington than Big Oil. (Not easy to do, so in the meantime, we get what we've got.)
 
Old Man said:
I'd like to apologize for thread drift. I went off subject twice. I'll do better the next time I get on a subject I know nothing about. Sorry.
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@Old Man…hahahaha.. I think i speak for many of us when i say we live for your thread drifts!
 
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The War in Ukraine is still affecting my sleep. (I want to keep talking about Will Smith And Jada. 😂)
Edited to add…happy to see this thread is on page 4 cause i didn’t think it would last past page 2 when i first looked.
 
Zak said:
Do you think those Glencairn (spelling?) glasses make a noticable difference in your enjoyment of your whiskey? I've been drinking out of old fashioned glasses but have thought about buying a 4-pack of the glasses in your photo. Would you recommend that purchase?
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Zak, Glencairn glasses are worth the cost, which isn’t much. Nosing is helped by their shape. Try this, nose, swirl, three times then sip.
 
Jojo said:
The War in Ukraine is still affecting my sleep. (I want to keep talking about Will Smith And Jada. 😂)
Edited to add…happy to see this thread is on page 4 cause i didn’t think it would last past page 2 when i first looked.
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I think that speaks well of all of us. I'm glad that my first post didn't set off a crap storm.
 
I read a few posts here and I can only draw one conclusion: My decision to get away from energy technology was a great idea. The amount of good information and bad information posted here is a sad statement of our knowledge.

Here's a fun ethanol fact: It takes 45 minutes for the catalyst to become active in an E85 or Flex-fuel vehicle...99.6% of vehicle trips are less than 25 minutes...thank your Congress representation for the raw combustion emissions...they were played by the auto industry.
 
Zak said:
I think that speaks well of all of us. I'm glad that my first post didn't set off a crap storm.
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I do too. But i was worried. I know this is a fishing forum, but we are not one dimensional people, and I feel that most folks who post here seem to be able to share thoughts on other things and discuss them in way without discourse . Plus i learn a lot from folks here, aside from fishing, which i don’t do that much of anymore anyway.
 
Evan B said:
Even though my boat engine (same engine Honda puts in their Pilot SUV) can take E85, I use clear premium. It's gonna sting filling up my 100gal tank this season :(
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Great idea...one small polymer seal in the wrong spot can get attacked by ethanol. In a 2-stroke this can lean out and burn cylinders. I always use non-ethanol. I burn 400 to 500 gallons per year, the extra $1/gallon, compared to a Coast Guard rescue?
 
Jojo said:
happy to see this thread is on page 4 cause i didn’t think it would last past page 2 when i first looked.
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probably actual talk of Ukraine ended after page 1 or 2.
 
Who is the idiot that started with the Ethanol in the first place. Maybe they ought to get the hell out of the fuel business. I may start putting ethyl in my tank. There is a gas station here in Butte that sells that gas without Ethanol in it. It might cost more but I don't tool all over the place anymore.
 
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