NFR NFL 2023 Season

Non-fishing related
mcswny said:
I know its been discussed but there should be refs up in the booth that can overturn calls that refs make on the field.
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There's a LOT that can be done to make officiating more precise, but they're making a very blatant effort to do none of it. Just watching some XFL games was a big eye opener on what it COULD be like. Sure, a bad call here or there, but it was absolutely nothing like we're seeing the last couple years in the NFL.

They could make such a better, more watchable product with some very obvious updates like a sky judge, sensors/chips to track ball location, making things like DPI far less subjective, etc etc.... Yet they won't.
 
Found this bit searching around online, seems well-sourced and researched. I'd have to dig in to their sources a bit.

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I utilized my rights under the Freedom of Information Act passed by President Lyndon Johnson in 1966 to access over 40 years of FBI files on the NFL although some information was redacted. Here's what I found (this was written in 2013):

1. Contrary to popular belief and to what he NFL wants you to think, there have been fixed games in league history. On page 308 of Dan Moldea's book "Interference" he lists over 70 NFL games that have been fixed and includes the names of the 2 referees involved in fixing those games. He also lists interviews with NFL HOF players most notably KC Chiefs QB Len Dawson. He, in detail with documented facts supported by FBI documents, has interviews with NFL players and known gambling associates to uncover massive game fixing in the league. He also notes, with evidence, throughout the book that no fewer than 26 NFL team owners have or have had continuous and developing relationships with the gambling world, most notably the Rooney, Bidwill, and Mara families all getting their starts as Bookmakers for established mid-west crime families and buying their NFL franchises with moneys earned from gambling. So that in and of itself is a hypocrisy number 1 on the NFL's "lilly white" reputation.

NFL Referees are part-time employees of the NFL. They are not employees of any team nor do they get paid anywhere close to the sums of NBA refs. NFL refs make between $25K to $70K per season. They work for the league and do what the league tells them to do. They are not there for "the integrity of the game". Referees, unlike other sports, are bound by NFL mandated gag orders which prevent them from talking to the media.

2. The NFL possesses an Anti-Trust Exemption to the law granted to it by President John F. Kennedy, which ultimately allows the NFL to classify itself as "entertainment" rather than sport, as well as incorporate itself as a single entity instead of the 32 separate "franchises" they would want you to believe. Contrary to the perception of the NFL being 32 separate franchises battling it out for gridiron supremacy. In a franchised environment, such as McDonalds (Business 101), each franchise is individually owned and operated and can participate in national promotions, have its own local promotions, or abstain from participating (hence the fine print in commercials saying "at participating locations".

This keeps the regionality of competition in tact without having to compete on a national level. MLB has this status, the NFL does not. Instead, since the NFL has this Anti-Trust exemption, it is able to package its teams in order to sell to national television companies, which today totals $6 Billion in revenue for the league. That is 75% of the leagues total annual revenue. In a 2004 lawsuit vs the NFL, the NFL attorney Gregg H. Levy argued that "the NFL is not a collection of 32 individual teams, but rather a single entity. And as long as the NFL teams are a unit, and they compete as a unit in the entertainment marketplace, then they should be deemed a single unit and not subject to any Anti-Trust laws."

There is only another "sports" organization that I can think of that follows this, the WWE. Levy also argued that the league markets its products and merchandise as a whole to promote the NFL as a whole. These arguments led all the way to lockout during the 2011 offseason. The league would still earn $5 Billion in revenue, even without a single game being played.

Professional sports is the only industry without ANY federal oversight. Therefore the league can do and go as they see fit, this is something the players were concerned about going into the lockout, the NFL players themselves sought help from US Congress asking for oversight of the NFL. And NFL players wanted an explanation as to why the NFL owners were granted an Anti-Trust exemption in the first place. They didn't get it.

The NFL proved in this lawsuit that they see themselves as a single unit in the "entertainment" industry and the unique league revenue sharing strategy is not common amongst professional sports leagues.
 
Evan B said:
Found this bit searching around online, seems well-sourced and researched. I'd have to dig in to their sources a bit.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I utilized my rights under the Freedom of Information Act passed by President Lyndon Johnson in 1966 to access over 40 years of FBI files on the NFL although some information was redacted. Here's what I found (this was written in 2013):

1. Contrary to popular belief and to what he NFL wants you to think, there have been fixed games in league history. On page 308 of Dan Moldea's book "Interference" he lists over 70 NFL games that have been fixed and includes the names of the 2 referees involved in fixing those games. He also lists interviews with NFL HOF players most notably KC Chiefs QB Len Dawson. He, in detail with documented facts supported by FBI documents, has interviews with NFL players and known gambling associates to uncover massive game fixing in the league. He also notes, with evidence, throughout the book that no fewer than 26 NFL team owners have or have had continuous and developing relationships with the gambling world, most notably the Rooney, Bidwill, and Mara families all getting their starts as Bookmakers for established mid-west crime families and buying their NFL franchises with moneys earned from gambling. So that in and of itself is a hypocrisy number 1 on the NFL's "lilly white" reputation.

NFL Referees are part-time employees of the NFL. They are not employees of any team nor do they get paid anywhere close to the sums of NBA refs. NFL refs make between $25K to $70K per season. They work for the league and do what the league tells them to do. They are not there for "the integrity of the game". Referees, unlike other sports, are bound by NFL mandated gag orders which prevent them from talking to the media.

2. The NFL possesses an Anti-Trust Exemption to the law granted to it by President John F. Kennedy, which ultimately allows the NFL to classify itself as "entertainment" rather than sport, as well as incorporate itself as a single entity instead of the 32 separate "franchises" they would want you to believe. Contrary to the perception of the NFL being 32 separate franchises battling it out for gridiron supremacy. In a franchised environment, such as McDonalds (Business 101), each franchise is individually owned and operated and can participate in national promotions, have its own local promotions, or abstain from participating (hence the fine print in commercials saying "at participating locations".

This keeps the regionality of competition in tact without having to compete on a national level. MLB has this status, the NFL does not. Instead, since the NFL has this Anti-Trust exemption, it is able to package its teams in order to sell to national television companies, which today totals $6 Billion in revenue for the league. That is 75% of the leagues total annual revenue. In a 2004 lawsuit vs the NFL, the NFL attorney Gregg H. Levy argued that "the NFL is not a collection of 32 individual teams, but rather a single entity. And as long as the NFL teams are a unit, and they compete as a unit in the entertainment marketplace, then they should be deemed a single unit and not subject to any Anti-Trust laws."

There is only another "sports" organization that I can think of that follows this, the WWE. Levy also argued that the league markets its products and merchandise as a whole to promote the NFL as a whole. These arguments led all the way to lockout during the 2011 offseason. The league would still earn $5 Billion in revenue, even without a single game being played.

Professional sports is the only industry without ANY federal oversight. Therefore the league can do and go as they see fit, this is something the players were concerned about going into the lockout, the NFL players themselves sought help from US Congress asking for oversight of the NFL. And NFL players wanted an explanation as to why the NFL owners were granted an Anti-Trust exemption in the first place. They didn't get it.

The NFL proved in this lawsuit that they see themselves as a single unit in the "entertainment" industry and the unique league revenue sharing strategy is not common amongst professional sports leagues.
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Wild
 
So...you're thinking that players and coaches making generational salaries are being enticed to throw games? With what?
 
_WW_ said:
So...you're thinking that players and coaches making generational salaries are being enticed to throw games? With what?
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If it is indeed happening, no I don't the coaches or players have anything to do with it.
 
Mossback said:
Betting on sports has never been my thing, but betting on an event that's organized as 'entertainment' would seem to be a poor choice on the face of things.
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Yeah, I'm not saying I 100% believe in this whole conspiracy, but I've noticed a pattern over the years that is getting hard for me to ignore (not specific to "my" team, but league-wide). A lot of which could easily be remedied, but aren't. I do think the partnerships with sports betting companies the past few years could absolutely lead to some behind-the-scenes corruption, but until there's a smoking gun, I'll keep it in mind as a "possibility" not necessarily my conclusion.

My only conclusion at this point is that the reffing situation, regardless the cause, is derailing my enjoyment of the NFL. Last night's game included, I've just seen far too many games that were ultimately decided by the refs. Yes, I still enjoy the incredible physical and mental abilities of so many of the players on display, but the results of their efforts being thrown one way or the other on subjective BS is just not something I'm excited about anymore.

The team I see get the most favorable calls at crucial times lately is the Eagles. So you can bet I'm very much looking forward to that shit show.
 
Dallas and Seattle had basically equal number of penalties & penalty yards.
 
I thought last night was the NFL Officials' Show with the Seahawks & Cowboys as the Thursday guests . . .
 
Evan B said:
Yeah, I'm not saying I 100% believe in this whole conspiracy, but I've noticed a pattern over the years that is getting hard for me to ignore (not specific to "my" team, but league-wide). A lot of which could easily be remedied, but aren't. I do think the partnerships with sports betting companies the past few years could absolutely lead to some behind-the-scenes corruption, but until there's a smoking gun, I'll keep it in mind as a "possibility" not necessarily my conclusion.

My only conclusion at this point is that the reffing situation, regardless the cause, is derailing my enjoyment of the NFL. Last night's game included, I've just seen far too many games that were ultimately decided by the refs. Yes, I still enjoy the incredible physical and mental abilities of so many of the players on display, but the results of their efforts being thrown one way or the other on subjective BS is just not something I'm excited about anymore.

The team I see get the most favorable calls at crucial times lately is the Eagles. So you can bet I'm very much looking forward to that shit show.
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I am not in the conspiracy camp here, just pointing out that betting on sports in general, not to mention betting on an entertainment organized sport ( under no requirement to not fix games ) is a bad idea.

Conspiracies are not my thing, hell...3 people can't keep a fishing hole a secret, but 3,000 can keep a massive game fixing scheme a secret for 40 years ?

Lol
Sure...
 
Mossback said:
I am not in the conspiracy camp here, just pointing out that betting on sports in general, not to mention betting on an entertainment organized sport ( under no requirement to not fix games ) is a bad idea.

Conspiracies are not my thing, hell...3 people can't keep a fishing hole a secret, but 3,000 can keep a massive game fixing scheme a secret for 40 years ?

Lol
Sure...
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If there was foul play, there'd be a much smaller number than that involved. I mean, for a single game, it'd really only take a couple people. The ref(s) are the ones doin the deed there. The players and coaches could be none the wiser.

I'm not a conspiracy guy either. Hell, I don't want any of this to be true because I've enjoyed the NFL so much for years.
 
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DimeBrite said:
Dallas and Seattle had basically equal number of penalties & penalty yards.
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Right, but that isn't the issue. It's the consistency in which things were called between the two teams and WHEN they were called. Things Dallas would do on defense getting a pass while the same or milder things getting called on Seattle defense just about any time they'd get a third down stop against them.

Not to mention that blatant facemask where they picked the flag up and decided to not call it.
 
It is far more likely that world class athletes playing at blink and you miss it speeds are a little too handsy and at those speeds the refs have to call what they think they see.

I agree it would be easy to fix.
Do away with offensive and defensive linemen holding calls. Do away with illegal man downfield. Do away with pass interference. Make these guys actually outplay each other.
 
_WW_ said:
It is far more likely that world class athletes playing at blink and you miss it speeds are a little too handsy and at those speeds the refs have to call what they think they see.
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These are the parts that would be easier to remedy with technology, but they simply won't. The XFL was able to do it with a fraction of a percent of the resources.
 
Evan B said:
If there was foul play, there'd be a much smaller number than that involved. I mean, for a single game, it'd really only take a couple people. The ref(s) are the ones doin the deed there. The players and coaches could be none the wiser.

I'm not a conspiracy guy either. Hell, I don't want any of this to be true because I've enjoyed the NFL so much for years.
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Well the owners would have to hear about it, then some of their staff, the refs, and of course those making the money off of it would know. No way could just a couple of people pull of what you're implying, not a chance. Given the microscope all games are under, the amount of press coverage and the huge egos of owners, I don't see it being possible that just a couple of people could do this.
Over decades, given that folks just don't keep secrets well at all, 3k is probably an under estimate of those who would be aware...and I just pulled that number out of thin air.

The reality is the NFL makes a shitload of money regardless of who wins the games. Fans show up, watch, and buy team gear.
 
Mossback said:
Well the owners would have to hear about it, then some of their staff, the refs, and of course those making the money off of it would know. No way could just a couple of people pull of what you're implying, not a chance. Given the microscope all games are under, the amount of press coverage and the huge egos of owners, I don't see it being possible that just a couple of people could do this.
Over decades, given that folks just don't keep secrets well at all, 3k is probably an under estimate of those who would be aware...and I just pulled that number out of thin air.

The reality is the NFL makes a shitload of money regardless of who wins the games. Fans show up, watch, and buy team gear.
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Well, in all honesty I want you to be the one who is right here.

Either way, if they don't fix whatever has been happening, I'm probably checking out in the next season or two.
 
Evan B said:
These are the parts that would be easier to remedy with technology, but they simply won't. The XFL was able to do it with a fraction of a percent of the resources.
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Explain to me why those rule I mentioned are needed.
 
_WW_ said:
Explain to me why those rule I mentioned are needed.
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You could just watch rugby in that case. The rest of the reasons I'd rather not be typing from my phone, so maybe when I'm back on a computer I can take the time. It'd be a very different game if all that were just taken away entirely.
 
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