New F&W job opening

I'd say what is needed is filtration of run off water because people aren't going to demand changes to their tires because tires are already considered expensive and changes will come with added costs.

I remember first seeing the runoff/ coho issue in the news maybe 15 years ago. Because this was happening in urban Puget Sound. The first thing that went through my head was that we need to filter the water before it gets to the stream. At the time I do not believe that the deaths were being linked to run off and certainly nothing so specific as tires.

Bit if someone like me can see a 2 minute news that street runoff needs to be filtered just as common sense. Was all that science really necessary?

And in terms if wildlife management and conservation solutions that involve the fewest members of society have the greatest chance of becoming reality.
Solution for coho and run off.
1. Intensify street cleaning efforts in August and September to reduce toxins.
2. Filter runoff as best you can.
Honest, here where I live, there's no effort to clean or sweep the streets made by the municipality. Parking lots, on the other hand, being mostly private property, do get done, but even those seem to be hit or miss.
 
LOL. How about we invest a couple hundred bucks in a rubber stamp instead? It would be every bit as effective....
 
"High wage" means different things in different places. In the housing cost thread, I noted that my 3bdrm Vermont house sold for $275K and that was a good price there. Rents were commensurately lower there, too. So $97K would go a lot further in Montpelier, VT than in Seattle or Olympia.

Rob, I think you are in Colorado, maybe in a rural area? If so, maybe $97K is an an extremely high salary where you live. But it is just above the median salary ($92,263) in Seattle.
Zak, agree that the wages are subjective.
Our little Casita here would be about $230,000 where I grew up, and considered over priced by the locals. Here, we paid $280,000 and were told we got a "steal". 6 years later, Subjectivley, we'd be looking at $600,000 according to market data.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Zak
I have noticed that. Just not with my kids. They love being outdoors. But you've got a good point.
I should start inviting their friends along when we get out. Maybe make a few more outdoor lovers along the way.
View attachment 4296
This is the best idea in this thread. I know when my kids and I start being jerks to each other, the cure is always to go outside.
IDK y’all maybe it is a bad idea, the position. I guess I just kinda see where I think they’re coming from. I used to think education and outreach was BS too. Then I started trying to help get positive tree hugging environmental sh*t done that seemed obvious, to me. And then I changed my tune on the power of public opinion. And I hear that the social medias are very influential these days, just sumpin I heard.
 
It's not an extremely high wage. I know plumbers who make more than that, electricians too. Hell I even know landscapers who make that much.
Lol
You pay tradesmen for a few hours and the problem is solved. The toilet works, the lights come on, and the trees are trimmed. If you hire a Social Scientist, nothing changes except the filing cabinets fill more quickly. Don’t we employ Social Scientists to solve the homeless problem?
 
Yeah they're pretty much all the same levels/types of problem with similar levels of difficulty in solving them.
Lol
 
So since we're just using common sense, what type of filter should be used for this process?

Since science isn't needed, do we just start with coffee filters and hope for the best? What guides these common sense actions if not science?
Well earlier Matt B said what was needed is an earthen filter.. justvlike the ones we have been using since the 1990s. Contractors have been installing them in every new subdivision since then.
 
What a terrific opportunity! We often complain that WDFW has little to no real authority to protect fish and wildlife habitat, and the state's human population just keeps on increasing, placing evermore pressure on the quantity and quality of remaining habitat. Here we'll have a social scientist to engage the public, and policy and lawmakers to transform the human dimension of WA state to actually value wildlife conservation instead of just throwing high dollar lip service toward it. I can see it now: A WA that stops environmental degradation in its tracks. How? By doing the things we have traditionally avoided. Refer to the housing cost thread and consider that single family homes will disappear for all but the super rich, who will pay dearly for their greedy consumption of space. Meanwhile the working class folks will all be housed in high rise condos and apartments to minimize the per capita footprint on the landscape. Carried further, we will all travel by car pool - at the least efficient - various forms of public transit as 2 lanes of I-5 are converted to mass transit mediums. Bicycles and scooters (electric, of course) will fill in the transportation bracket, rain or shine, cuz social responsibility requires it if fish and wildlife conservation is what we truly desire. Reduced per capita energy consumption is a given, and I can see the resurgence in popularity of once-a-week bathing becoming a sincere gesture to water conservation. Man, I'm just getting started; I gotta' talk to this guy or gal just as soon as he or she (or it) is hired.
 
Well earlier Matt B said what was needed is an earthen filter.. justvlike the ones we have been using since the 1990s. Contractors have been installing them in every new subdivision since then.


Hmmm.....I wonder how Matt might know this...
 
Hmmm.....I wonder how Matt might know this...
Science.. my point is that it's the same thing we would have done if someone had said hey maybe we should filter this water.. and we'll the water is still not filtered and if there are plans to do so I'm unaware of them..

One of our biggest problems is this whole process takes much longer than our fish and wildlife have.
 
Science.. my point is that it's the same thing we would have done if someone had said hey maybe we should filter this water.. and we'll the water is still not filtered and if there are plans to do so I'm unaware of them..

One of our biggest problems is this whole process takes much longer than our fish and wildlife have.
As someone that's been involved in wildlife science relating to conservation and management since the mid-90s, I agree with Rob's last sentence. The speed of science affecting meaningful change is painfully slow, and the speed of human population growth/environmental degradation/management needs/changing political whims is significantly faster.

However, Rob's first premise, that we would have done something if only someone had suggested it, is totally naive. I can't think of a single modern wildlife conservation situation where some proactive protective policy took place based solely on the power of a suggestion or opinion with no science backing it up. Even after years and years of study, after which point an unknown might gradually become "common sense", there will be pushback from some sector of the general pubic that doesn't agree or doesn't care or doesn't want to pay for it, etc. Just look at the debacle around the Snake River dams. I can think of many other situations where there are known biology "common sense" solutions that could fix a wildlife conservation problem, but there are impassable social science or political roadblocks in the way.

This is obviously a simplification but in my experience, the population can be split into two groups:

Group one has the folks that care about coho salmon and is willing to foot their share of the bill to pay for the filters on every storm drain on every street in every town along the Puget Sound watershed. This group believes the solution to protecting a resource they care about is "common sense" and they are willing/able to handle the inconvenience to fund the solution. This is the minority group.

Group two is a much larger portion of the population that includes - but is not limited to - the folks that might not even know what a coho salmon is, let alone how their tires might be killing them, and they certainly aren't willing/able to pay more for greener tires or countless filters to protect a stupid fish.
 
As someone that's been involved in wildlife science relating to conservation and management since the mid-90s, I agree with Rob's last sentence. The speed of science affecting meaningful change is painfully slow, and the speed of human population growth/environmental degradation/management needs/changing political whims is significantly faster.

However, Rob's first premise, that we would have done something if only someone had suggested it, is totally naive. I can't think of a single modern wildlife conservation situation where some proactive protective policy took place based solely on the power of a suggestion or opinion with no science backing it up. Even after years and years of study, after which point an unknown might gradually become "common sense", there will be pushback from some sector of the general pubic that doesn't agree or doesn't care or doesn't want to pay for it, etc. Just look at the debacle around the Snake River dams. I can think of many other situations where there are known biology "common sense" solutions that could fix a wildlife conservation problem, but there are impassable social science or political roadblocks in the way.

This is obviously a simplification but in my experience, the population can be split into two groups:

Group one has the folks that care about coho salmon and is willing to foot their share of the bill to pay for the filters on every storm drain on every street in every town along the Puget Sound watershed. This group believes the solution to protecting a resource they care about is "common sense" and they are willing/able to handle the inconvenience to fund the solution. This is the minority group.

Group two is a much larger portion of the population that includes - but is not limited to - the folks that might not even know what a coho salmon is, let alone how their tires might be killing them, and they certainly aren't willing/able to pay more for greener tires or countless filters to protect a stupid fish.
I will admit to being nieve.. but it's really more cynicism than nievete.
 
What a terrific opportunity! We often complain that WDFW has little to no real authority to protect fish and wildlife habitat, and the state's human population just keeps on increasing, placing evermore pressure on the quantity and quality of remaining habitat. Here we'll have a social scientist to engage the public, and policy and lawmakers to transform the human dimension of WA state to actually value wildlife conservation instead of just throwing high dollar lip service toward it. I can see it now: A WA that stops environmental degradation in its tracks. How? By doing the things we have traditionally avoided. Refer to the housing cost thread and consider that single family homes will disappear for all but the super rich, who will pay dearly for their greedy consumption of space. Meanwhile the working class folks will all be housed in high rise condos and apartments to minimize the per capita footprint on the landscape. Carried further, we will all travel by car pool - at the least efficient - various forms of public transit as 2 lanes of I-5 are converted to mass transit mediums. Bicycles and scooters (electric, of course) will fill in the transportation bracket, rain or shine, cuz social responsibility requires it if fish and wildlife conservation is what we truly desire. Reduced per capita energy consumption is a given, and I can see the resurgence in popularity of once-a-week bathing becoming a sincere gesture to water conservation. Man, I'm just getting started; I gotta' talk to this guy or gal just as soon as he or she (or it) is hired.
I don't know, electric scooters? With the dams gone and electricity costs sky rocketing, probably going to need solar powered scooters.

 
"High wage" means different things in different places. In the housing cost thread, I noted that my 3bdrm Vermont house sold for $275K and that was a good price there. Rents were commensurately lower there, too. So $97K would go a lot further in Montpelier, VT than in Seattle or Olympia.

Rob, I think you are in Colorado, maybe in a rural area? If so, maybe $97K is an an extremely high salary where you live. But it is just above the median salary ($92,263) in Seattle.
Adding to Zak’s comments is the job posting gave a range of 62-97K. Typically in government jobs starting pay is the bottom end and in this case with such a large range it probably a minimum of 5 years to reach the top range, possibly more. So with a requirement of a Ph.D and 3 years minimum experience it could be at least 8 years post college before hitting $97K/ year. If that still seems excessive consider that my sister in law was just quoted $75/hr (2 hr. minimum) for a house cleaner in North Bend. Dicks burgers is paying $19/hr starting wage, health insurance and more paid. It’s all relative.
 
Adding to Zak’s comments is the job posting gave a range of 62-97K. Typically in government jobs starting pay is the bottom end and in this case with such a large range it probably a minimum of 5 years to reach the top range, possibly more. So with a requirement of a Ph.D and 3 years minimum experience it could be at least 8 years post college before hitting $97K/ year. If that still seems excessive consider that my sister in law was just quoted $75/hr (2 hr. minimum) for a house cleaner in North Bend. Dicks burgers is paying $19/hr starting wage, health insurance and more paid. It’s all relative.
And if you consider the housing cost thread too, this wage isn't going to get you into a house in the Olympia Market. Ask me how I know!
 
Back
Top