Is Anywhere Safe Anymore?

Lower birthrate and an aging population has helped to lower crime since the early 1990s. Some argue birth control was a major factor in lower crime as well. I strongly believe that elimination of tetra ethyl lead was very important. Anybody miss the "The Warriors" era of 1970s New York?

The new wave is very clearly associated with use of narcotics and their trafficking. A new generation of politicians and their voters felt very uncomfortable with the high incarceration rate due to drug use. Laws were passed to enable narcotics use of all types, vagrancy became legal, public camping allowed. County and city prosecuters in many areas proclaimed they would not enforce certain basic laws pertaining to property crime. Then the police were placed under much greater scrutiny and liability for use of force. They retired, quit, moved away, or avoid dealing with crime until blood is already spilt. The situation will improve once voters demand it from elected officials.

You successfully made me dig into a bit of a rabbit hole prior to bed last night. Thank you for that. I learned quite a bit.

It appears as though your suggestion of more police officers and lesser jail sentences has a significant amount of support. It does stand to reason that being caught is a far greater deterrent that potential penalties, especially for property crimes. The studies cited showed a few really interesting things regarding policing in our recent history, especially that many predominantly African American neighborhoods and are simultaneously under policed and over arrested for petty crimes (below the level of theft even). There is also significant support across America for there to be more police. This extends to predominantly African American neighborhoods. In fact, White American are less likely to favor larger police forces.

There is an interesting NPR/ Planet Money article that coldly discusses the decrease in violent crime that adding 1 police officer represents. It looks at whether adding enough officers to statistically stop 1 homicide is worth it if you value a life at 10 million. The statistical effect of a police officer on violent crime surprised me a whole lot. It's an interview with a stat guy. I love this sort of stuff:


As with so many things it is a part of a solution. You can also point to improving education as a long term way to reduce crime. I think that we should. It has significant statistical backing as a long term measure. This gets to the question of educational equity and school funding. It also get to the "drug war" and it's effect on families especially in poorer urban areas. All of this is not necessarily in conflict with other ideas like increasing the number of police.

I think that is where the "I am right and you are wrong" binary sort of thinking really plagues us as a country. So often, we see any other answer than the one we espouse to be contrary to our own. Quite often it is complementary. We fight and argue when we'd be better off listening and thinking. I am guilty of this at times too.

A friend of mine taught me that ,"A good idea does not care who had it." or something similar. I may have butchered the language. The idea is sound though.

My thought is that much of what we see today with the difficulty policing is sort of a boomerang effect of the "drug war". I have a lot of thoughts about police and culture, the incredibly difficult job that police have, and the necessity to make the job more appealing to a broader swath of society. There is not time to discuss it here but I sure wish it could be discussed nationally, locally and civilly without the moralist shaming that has become the standard operating procedure for policy discussions.

I commend you for taking the time to dive into the literature to inquire about a cause that you care about, and for being willing to carefully evaluate the findings on their own merits. That makes you quite the oddball these days.

For what it's worth when I first heard the "more police, shorter sentences" line I was skeptical of the shorter sentences aspect (until I thought about it for a bit), but part of what was persuasive about the dialogue I was hearing was that serious scholars on the left and right seemed to agree that there was an overwhelming consensus supporting that conclusion in the literature. The fact that neither side was 100% happy with that model but had to grudgingly agree with the findings was also part of what caught my attention, since those on the left weren't automatically predisposed to favor more police, and those on the right weren't automatically predisposed to favor shorter sentences.

There's been such a complete, top-to-bottom collapse in the cultural, political, and judicial consensus that emerged in the 80s and 90s - such as it was - that supported a dispassionate, evidence based approach for law enforcement that at this point the benefits of hiring more police would be substantially muted. I don't expect that to change for at least a decade or more, and I'll likely be dead before things turn around.

I agree with you when it comes to schools and the benefits of education, but there's a distinction between "schooling" and learning, and as with policing, if you disregard the data you can spend significantly more on the former without doing much to increase the latter. There's nowhere where the failure to heed the evidence is more clear than when it comes to reading - and no skill more highly correlated with most of the outcomes we're hoping that schooling will produce, yet schools around the country are persisting in using flawed methods that are driving a multi-generational catastrophe when it comes to teaching kids - especially poor kids - to read effectively. This is another case where serious, principled people on the right and the left agree that there's a vastly more effective way to teach reading, and that the benefits of universally adopting these methods would be profound. Sadly - this is also a case where the presence of this left/right consensus is very unlikely to have any effect whatsoever on public policy. One more case where I've resigned myself to trying to limit the damage that these policies inflict on my family.

This NPR podcast series is a good primer on the topic.


This blog-post is a good distillation of the evidence on instructional methods from a center-right economist.

 
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I commend you for taking the time to dive into the literature to inquire about a cause that you care about, and for being willing to carefully evaluate through the findings on their own merits. For what it's worth when I first heard the "more police, shorter sentences" line I was skeptical of the shorter sentences aspect (until I thought about it for a bit), but part of what was persuasive about the dialogue I was hearing was that serious scholars on the left and right seemed to agree that there was an overwhelming consensus supporting that conclusion in the literature. The fact that neither side was 100% happy with that model but had to grudgingly agree with the findings was also part of what caught my attention, since those on the left weren't automatically predisposed to favor more police, and those on the right weren't automatically predisposed to favor shorter sentences.

There's been such a complete, top-to-bottom collapse in the cultural, political, and judicial consensus that emerged in the 80s and 90s - such as it was - that supported a dispassionate, evidence based approach for law enforcement that at this point the benefits of hiring more police would be substantially muted. I don't expect that to change for at least a decade or more, and I'll likely be dead before things turn around.

I agree with you when it comes to schools and the benefits of education, but there's a distinction between "schooling" and learning, and as with policing, if you disregard the data you can spend significantly more on the former without doing much to increase the latter. There's nowhere where the failure to heed the evidence is more clear than when it comes to reading - and no skill more highly correlated with most of the outcomes we're hoping that schooling will produce, yet schools around the country are persisting in using flawed methods that are driving a multi-generational catastrophe when it comes to teaching kids - especially poor kids - to read effectively. This is another case where serious, principled people on the right and the left agree that there's a vastly more effective way to teach reading, and that the benefits of universally adopting these methods would be profound. Sadly - this is also a case where the presence of this left/right consensus is very unlikely to have any effect whatsoever on public policy. One more case where I've resigned myself to limiting that these policies inflict on my family.

This NPR podcast series is a good primer on the topic.


This blog-post is a good distillation of the evidence on instructional methods from a center-right economist.

Thanks. My good friend has a boy who is struggling to read. His younger sister excels at it. I have been looking for resources to help the boy. I hope that there are some recommendations in the podcast.

I generally like economists outlooks on things. I suspect that you do as well given your suggested reading/ podcast above.
 
Thanks. My good friend has a boy who is struggling to read. His younger sister excels at it. I have been looking for resources to help the boy. I hope that there are some recommendations in the podcast.

I generally like economists outlooks on things. I suspect that you do as well given your suggested reading/ podcast above.

After hearing multiple credible people recommending it (also referenced in the second link I posted above) I got a used copy of Siegfried Engelmann's "How to Teach Your Child to Read in 100 Easy Lessons" for about $3 on Amazon.

My youngest's Pre-K teacher said that she might benefit from getting used to sitting still and listening to instructions for a few minutes a day, so I thought "If we're going to practice sitting still and listening to instructions, might as well put that time to use learning something" and I spent 10-15 minutes, 3-4X a week for about 6 months working through the lessons, with terrific results.

It uses the direct instruction method, so - while I can see why teachers might not find it particularly inspiring - it's great for busy parents. You don't have to figure anything out on your own, just read the text highlighted in red to your kid, provide a bit of encouragement, and let the proven methods work their magic. I don't have any experience with older kids who might have to "unlearn" unhelpful methods/approaches, but if I had to place a wager I'd be the methods would work for any age.

Amazon product ASIN 0671631985
 
Schooling is such a subjective experience, starting with the demographics of the kids, and the budget of the respective school districts..
My daughter in law teaches grade school in San Jose, which is always struggling with budget issues, with a large class in which many are the children of immigrants who only speak Spanish at home, unable to help their children with their English lessons, which lowers the lessons bar.
Conversely, my youngest grandaughter goes to a school in an affluent district with a reasonably small class where the lesson structure can be reasonably tailored to each child's ability.
Bless the parents who can and do help their children with homework. Besides the actual lesson help, it means they are engaged as parents, and there is nothing a child needs more.
 
Everyone wants more/better law enforcement, most not willing to be taxed for it.
Very true, that goes the same with roads. In Michigan the roads and freeways are filled with dangerous pot holes that the budgets are stretched to repair. Officials don't want to jeopardize their bonus checks to pay for road repairs. So now they've started discussing ways of turning them into toll roads to help finance the repairs. People don't want to pay upfront for it so they have to find another route to take to do it. Soon they may come up with paying a user fee for filing complaints with the police, LOL..
 
Thanks. My good friend has a boy who is struggling to read. His younger sister excels at it. I have been looking for resources to help the boy. I hope that there are some recommendations in the podcast.

I generally like economists outlooks on things. I suspect that you do as well given your suggested reading/ podcast above.
Would ABC Mouse work ? It's been on the parental /home assistance list of my 9yro's school
 
Very true, that goes the same with roads. In Michigan the roads and freeways are filled with dangerous pot holes that the budgets are stretched to repair. Officials don't want to jeopardize their bonus checks to pay for road repairs. So now they've started discussing ways of turning them into toll roads to help finance the repairs. People don't want to pay upfront for it so they have to find another route to take to do it. Soon they may come up with paying a user fee for filing complaints with the police, LOL..
Portland, OR is the same…
Sadly, the people already paid for it…the crooks in public government agencies found a way to steal it with the people’s eyes wide open!! 🤬
 
You’re right cdnred …it’s very sad…that we the people have allowed this to go on…for far too long.
 
There is plenty enough money to repair roads.
There is plenty enough money for more police and training.
There is plenty of money to address a potential social security shortfall.
There is plenty of money to fix our border.

The problem is that our government has its priorities messed up. More concerned with some country 10000 miles away or....the list goes on forever. Time to put US citizens and this country first.
 
Portland, OR is the same…
Sadly, the people already paid for it…the crooks in public government agencies found a way to steal it with the people’s eyes wide open!! 🤬

Just cause your eyes are open doesn't mean you're awake.
 
He and @Salmo_g would make a good team.
Alex could pop 'em at a thousand yards and Steve, of Backhoes R Us, could plant 'em. :ROFLMAO:
FWIW, Alex and I couldn't be more dissimilar. Alex is further to the right than Attila the Hun and spends a lot of time on FB ranting about and "owning the libs," whatever that means. Before the Navy had SEALs, it had frogmen who did what SEALs have done since, and Alex was among those early practitioners. He has little time or use for those of us even slightly to the left of Attila. BTW, I do not own a backhoe, although I honestly wouldn't mind having one. (Who wouldn't?) However I do know a man with a backhoe who also owns 400 acres of marsh land where no bodies have ever been found. Back when I was having some tweaker issues, he explained to me how this could all be worked out. Hence Backhoes R Us on the dark web. So yeah, it's a business model that sadly goes severely underutilized.
 
The local church I go to meeting at had to have someone watch the door to keep the rif raf (homeless) out.
Also to walk the sidewalks to keep the cars safe.
Cameras don't stop the ass hats from stealing.
A couple of ole guys with walking sticks wandering around the parking lot, works.
 
Interesting how many want to blame 'the government' for the safety issues as if it's a political issue, not a human issue. Folks have been batshit crazy and killing each other since the beginning of time. And now that we have more guns in the wild than people, not just Blue state problem like folks would like to think.

Alaska, with it's open and concealed carry for anyone 21 and over, has the highest murder rates per capita in the US, and ranks 42nd for homeless.

Interesting graph put out this week about homicides in the US, the per capita Red State murder rate was 23% higher than the Blue State murder rate when the past 21 years were combined.

And take a look at the property crime stats for 2021. Texas, with the must punative laws on the books, leads the country, with Washington and it's 'lax' laws second.
Crime is not a political problem, it's a societal problem.


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WideningRedStatesMurderGap_Header__v2.jpg

 
Charles Sullivan,

You mentioned a boy with reading difficulties. He should be tested for dyslexia.

Dave
I appreciate that. I understand a bit about dyslexia as well as some other eye disorders that can make reading hard.

He is not dyslexic. He can do it. There is a bunch of stuff going on that have made it hard. None are his fault.

He is doing much better from what his dad said this weekend.
 
The local church I go to meeting at had to have someone watch the door to keep the rif raf (homeless) out.
Also to walk the sidewalks to keep the cars safe.
Cameras don't stop the ass hats from stealing.
A couple of ole guys with walking sticks wandering around the parking lot, works.
It's a shame that society has come to that but we do what needs to be done., :cautious:
 
The local church I go to meeting at had to have someone watch the door to keep the rif raf (homeless) out.
It's a shame that society has come to that but we do what needs to be done., :cautious:
IMHO it makes my heart ache that the very people who could greatly benefit from being welcomed into the church are having to be kept out because it appears they are preying upon and victimizing the congregation. 😭
 
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