NFR How's the housing market where you live?

Non-fishing related
I get this newsletter monthly from a couple folks that get a lot of listings in my neighborhood.
May is what I’d consider the last hot month.
Things have definitely slowed down, at least in my neighborhood. Listings are sitting longer and starting to see some price drops.
Will be interesting to see what the numbers will be for June and July.
I’ll post them up once I receive them.
SF

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1/3 of the people are in one county but they can use public resources all over the state.
And so can the other 2/3 of the populace.
I do think it causes people to be priced out of there homes by taxes though.
That's what will eventually drive me out of the home I built with my own two hands. I'm thinking I'll probably be in my mid-eighties when it happens. At which point I will rob a bank, blow all the money on hookers and cocaine, then turn myself in and let the state take care of me til I die.
 
when the next rate bump by the feds translates to mortgage rates, it will further slam the door on first time buyers who still had any hope. Meanwhile, banks are awash cash, charging 5% to loan money while returning 1% or less to depositers whose money they are loaning out.
Warren Buffet went on a spending spree for bank stocks last year, when asked why replied "banks make money off of other peoples money. Show me a better model."
 
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Did a little quick math to look at buying power before interest rates raised and now and buyers have lost a ton purchase power.... same payment now buys a 400k house compare to 600k before... ish...

But sellers still want top $... cause that's what they always want and neighbors got said price last month, last year, what ever. We all want that.

So prices have no where near adjusted to account for the dramatic change in buyers scenarios.

Odd game being played in the market right now.

It'll be interesting to watch it continue to unfold.

People make the most curious decisions.
 
I get this newsletter monthly from a couple folks that get a lot of listings in my neighborhood.
May is what I’d consider the last hot month.
Things have definitely slowed down, at least in my neighborhood. Listings are sitting longer and starting to see some price drops.
Will be interesting to see what the numbers will be for June and July.
I’ll post them up once I receive them.
SF

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$637 per square foot, WHEW! We've thought of selling, getting a place on a flatter lot, no stairs, etc. Unlikely at this time............
 
$637 per square foot, WHEW! We've thought of selling, getting a place on a flatter lot, no stairs, etc. Unlikely at this time............

A bit different in 1942!
Someone posted this on another forum I follow.
That was still a lot of money back then.
SF

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Using Boise as my preferred index for this market.

$700K gets you a ~1500sf house in a desirable neighborhood on the periphery of the town. 1.1 million gets you a 3/2 with an ADU near downtown. 1.2 million $ gets you a nice 2500sf house on a 0.25 acre lot closer to the center of the city.

My completely arbitrary and intuitive value-meter says that based on those price levels Boise real-estate is at least 40% overvalued, but there's no telling how long policy-makers in places like California, Portland, and Seattle will continue to bless sellers in markets like Boise with a transfer of wealth from home-equity-laden refugees looking for a different social/policy environment.


 
Using Boise as my preferred index for this market.

$700K gets you a ~1500sf house in a desirable neighborhood on the periphery of the town. 1.1 million gets you a 3/2 with an ADU near downtown. 1.2 million $ gets you a nice 2500sf house on a 0.25 acre lot closer to the center of the city.

My completely arbitrary and intuitive value-meter says that based on those price levels Boise real-estate is at least 40% overvalued, but there's no telling how long policy-makers in places like California, Portland, and Seattle will continue to bless sellers in markets like Boise with a transfer of wealth from home-equity-laden refugees looking for a different social/policy environment.



IMHO this is a spot on analysis. I know of a couple of land owners and builders in Idaho and Eastern Washington who make no bones about cheering on the demise of Seattle as far as high cost homes and general decay as it's making them very rich when they sell property for prices they never envisioned attainable when invested in. These same people, especially builders, are beginning to sweat increased interest rates
 
Word on the street is that the Federal Reserve may raise rates by 1% at their July 26 meeting — as they try to quell inflation that now sits at a 40-year high.
 
I was but a wee lad back in early 80's but I seem to recall hearing that Tall Paul raised interest rates by 500 basis-points in a single move, on the theory that you can't break inflation until real interest rates exceed the inflation rate. Raising rates to that level seems unimaginable at the moment, so I suppose we'll get a chance to see whether that's true or not. Glad that I have the luxury of taking a purely academic interest in interest rates in the moment other than looking forward to potentially getting a non-zero interest rate on savings even if it's just a mirage because the real rates are still negative...
 
Got the new newsletter today.
Here are the June stats. Looks like cost per square ft is down and days on market are up just a bit versus May.
SF

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The real estate cycle has always been viewed as four phases: Recovery, expansion, hyper supply, and recession.
The days of hyper supply are over, however, as the massive tracts in planning and building that was the norm for decades, creating the mega burb's around the country, is long past. And with the US dollar so strong, many of the economists believe this recession may be a shallower dive than the normal recession cycle.

Some may find this graph of SF real estate market cycles interesting, and is likely representative in general of all such pricey urban areas. Everything is cause and effect.


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Using Boise as my preferred index for this market.

$700K gets you a ~1500sf house in a desirable neighborhood on the periphery of the town. 1.1 million gets you a 3/2 with an ADU near downtown. 1.2 million $ gets you a nice 2500sf house on a 0.25 acre lot closer to the center of the city.

My completely arbitrary and intuitive value-meter says that based on those price levels Boise real-estate is at least 40% overvalued, but there's no telling how long policy-makers in places like California, Portland, and Seattle will continue to bless sellers in markets like Boise with a transfer of wealth from home-equity-laden refugees looking for a different social/policy environment.


I don't understand the thought that Seattle or Portland policy makers are somehow the driving force behind people moving for social reasons. It seems to discount the basic population and economic data that is easily found. I understand that there are actual people who are leaving those Seattle because of theft and homelessness etc. To blame Boise's home prices on Seattle's local policy seems more emotional than logical. Consider a different perspective:

From 2021-2022 Seattle's population increased by 2.7%. King County's (more rural) increased by less than .5%. The majority of these people immigrated to Seattle (rather than births). They are by and large educated and excellent earners. At the same time King County residents receive 62 cents back for every dollar sent to Olympia. that is an average of $1,400.00 sent to each person in WA from King County. The state as a whole uses King County as a piggy bank. So in order to fund their own schools and deal with their own challenges that come with being urban and growing, they have to tax themselves at an uber- high rate. This tends to price out retired people. When your tax bill is larger than my mortgage, it becomes a problem for people on fixed incomes. There is also a clear nexus between living costs and homelessness. It is one of the reasons for it.

Further, due to the population pressure that growing at that rate brings, home prices have skyrocketted. The median home cost is somewhere around $900,000 in 2021. That gives a person who is retired, does not want to pay the taxes Seattle requires, and does not care for the change (older people) a lot of buying power in places like Boise or Spokane or even Bellingham.

My contention is that it isn't any social policy that is the leading cause of the Exodus (expressed and a 2.7 % increase ;)) from Seattle. It is pure market force economics. We are discussing long time residents that are looking to move because they are funding the rest of the state and because of the elevated costs of living due to rapid growth. The influx of High earners are giving them the chance to move to most places because property values have consistently been increasing faster than most other places.

Oddly, the net migration from Boise to Seattle from 2015-2019 was 309 TO SEATTLE! That means that 309 more people moved to Seattle from Boise than from Seattle to Boise in that timeframe (from census data). The people who move to Idaho are logically going to be politically more conservative or they would have moved to Eugene or Bellingham (with 3,000+ of their friends). You are selecting for the actual people who will bad mouth Seattle politics/ culture the most. We all tend to prefer living with like minded people.

I am sure that you have met plenty of people who have left Seattle for Boise. Like a an ex-husband complaining about their ex-wife, they are going to tell you about what they hated. The fact is though, the numbers say that the ex-wife is getting a lot more dates. Seattle isn't seeing it's population leave due to these things. In fact, it's increasing, even from people from Boise.

Spokane is getting more Seattleites than Vise versa. The financial irony of that is as rich as cheesecake.
 
I moved out of Portland because of the pile of needles on the other side of the fence 5 feet from my baby's rooms window. And finding out it was an addict pathway. I'm surrounded by business's that chose to invest outside of Portland rather than in, including me.
 
Spokane is getting more Seattleites than Vise versa. The financial irony of that is as rich as cheesecake.

I know this is not to your point but that is because Spokane is the second biggest city in WA. My wife is from Spokane and I am from Bellingham and she is a big city urban type of person and so are her friends. People who enjoy Seattle would likely enjoy Spokane and also still find a great job. It has much to offer an urban person who likes the outdoors.

I am not sure why western WA people think Spokane is some red neck city or shittier than any of the big coastal cities. Spokane has shitty areas but so does every other city. I have been nothing but impressed with Spokane since getting shown around by the locals. I have also caught MASSIVE trout literally in downtown.
 
I know this is not to your point but that is because Spokane is the second biggest city in WA. My wife is from Spokane and I am from Bellingham and she is a big city urban type of person and so are her friends. People who enjoy Seattle would likely enjoy Spokane and also still find a great job. It has much to offer an urban person who likes the outdoors.

I am not sure why western WA people think Spokane is some red neck city or shittier than any of the big coastal cities. Spokane has shitty areas but so does every other city. I have been nothing but impressed with Spokane since getting shown around by the locals. I have also caught MASSIVE trout literally in downtown.
I said none of those things. I honestly don't think that Western Washington people think as a group. There is plenty of individual thought here West of the Mountains. I know that in my circle of friends Spokane is looked upon favorably for the most part. They have a baseball team, plenty of culture, close to outdoors etc. So maybe you've heard people make disparaging remarks about Spokane. I have too, but it's rare. My wife just came back from a conference there and really liked it.

My post was about the economics of it all, hence the remark about irony. Spokane County is one of the larger recipients of King County tax dollars. For residents of King County to relocate there makes a bunch of sense. They are getting some good old fashioned ROI.
 
I said none of those things. I honestly don't think that Western Washington people think as a group. There is plenty of individual thought here West of the Mountains. I know that in my circle of friends Spokane is looked upon favorably for the most part. They have a baseball team, plenty of culture, close to outdoors etc. So maybe you've heard people make disparaging remarks about Spokane. I have too, but it's rare. My wife just came back from a conference there and really liked it.

My post was about the economics of it all, hence the remark about irony. Spokane County is one of the larger recipients of King County tax dollars. For residents of King County to relocate there makes a bunch of sense. They are getting some good old fashioned ROI.

I know my response wasn’t to your point and I know you didn’t talk down on Spokane. I was just saying I can see why there would be people leaving Seattle for Spokane. It seemed from your post that this was the exception.
 
Here in Spokane we are seeing a pretty aggressive market, certainly blowing up the skirts of us long term residents. I stole this graph from another site, median home prices for all types, the Nov. 2019 point is not relevant to anything.,
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It;s cooled lately, but hearsay indicates rentals are at historically high occupancy rates, and many are decrying the uptick in rents.

As far as mortgage interest rates go, I paid 6 when I bought this place in 2008, and I paid two points to get to 12% on a place in Olympia in 1988. You will do what you must to get into a house. You should always buy less than they tell you that you can afford.

But as a note to borrowers: If no one can do what Countrywide can, maybe Countrywide can't do it either.

And thanks for the kind words for our town. We've got our troubles, but all in all it's a pretty nice place.
 
I moved out of Seattle years ago, because of the homelessness mess.

When my wife and I were dating, I lived downtown and she lived in Bellevue. She was originally from NJ, but lived in university district for a while. I complained about downtown constantly and she always told me to suck it up and stop being a small (Australian) town boy. When her lease ended, she lived with me for two weeks, before our new lease in Bellevue started. By the end of that two weeks, she was saying "I need to get the fuck out of here".

East side property is out of control and this is the reason. Many people I know are done with Seattle's bullshit. Taxes are not the main thing on anyone's mind, when they're dodging human turds and syringes every day.
 
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