Hook size inconsistency

adamcu280

adamcu280

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I know I’m not the only one that is annoyed by arbitrary hook sizes between brands and styles.

From top:
Gamakatsu SL12S 1/0
Kona BGH 2/0
Ahrex SA280 2/0
Ahrex SA254 1/0

Gamakatsu and Kona are virtually indistinguishable, with the Kona having a microscopically larger eye being the only difference I can see.

Ahrex SA280 is much heavier and much bigger than the above; the eye is so large that it doesn’t fit in Spawn CTY heads.

Possibly a style thing but the gape of the Ahrex jig hook is much larger than the Gama and Kona even though it’s the same size or smaller on paper.

image.jpg

Generally speaking I’ve noticed that Ahrex tend to run one or two sizes than a similar shape Daiichi. I’ll use a Daiichi 2546 in 6 but an Ahrex NS122 in 8 or 10 for the same fly.

Any other comparisons out there that could help us figure out hook sizes between brands?
 
adamcu280 said:
I know I’m not the only one that is annoyed by arbitrary hook sizes between brands and styles.

From top:
Gamakatsu SL12S 1/0
Kona BGH 2/0
Ahrex SA280 2/0
Ahrex SA254 1/0

Gamakatsu and Kona are virtually indistinguishable, with the Kona having a microscopically larger eye being the only difference I can see.

Ahrex SA280 is much heavier and much bigger than the above; the eye is so large that it doesn’t fit in Spawn CTY heads.

Possibly a style thing but the gape of the Ahrex jig hook is much larger than the Gama and Kona even though it’s the same size or smaller on paper.

View attachment 129344

Generally speaking I’ve noticed that Ahrex tend to run one or two sizes than a similar shape Daiichi. I’ll use a Daiichi 2546 in 6 but an Ahrex NS122 in 8 or 10 for the same fly.

Any other comparisons out there that could help us figure out hook sizes between brands?
Click to expand...
Honestly, for me it’s easier to find the ones I like and just stick with them.
 
Frustrates me, too, but you gotta find what you like and buy a bunch of it.

Hooks are a great example of things I wish I could still buy at my local fly shop. Nothing like holding it in your hand to see what you're getting....
 
Tactical Fly Fisher measure the shanks on all the hooks that they sell, so you have a better idea of what you’re actually getting. See example below.

tacticalflyfisher.com

Dohiku HDN 302 nymph-wet fly hook

The 302 is a good all around nymph hook. From the wire gauge to the shank length to the hook gap and point length, this hook checks all the boxes. - 25 hooks per package Measured total hook lengths are: #6 = 19mm #8 = 16.7mm #10 = 14.7 mm #12 = 13.3 mm #14 = 11.9 mm #16 = 10.0 mm #18 = 8.7 mm...
tacticalflyfisher.com tacticalflyfisher.com
 
mcswny said:
Honestly, for me it’s easier to find the ones I like and just stick with them.
Click to expand...
Shad said:
Frustrates me, too, but you gotta find what you like and buy a bunch of it.

Hooks are a great example of things I wish I could still buy at my local fly shop. Nothing like holding it in your hand to see what you're getting....
Click to expand...
Yep, that's what I'm trying to do. The issue is when I start branching out of my normal tying routine and start looking for suitable hooks for new patterns.

Sometimes my local shop doesn't have the hook I'm looking for so I gotta buy online and that's where the problem arises.
 
adamcu280 said:
Yep, that's what I'm trying to do. The issue is when I start branching out of my normal tying routine and start looking for suitable hooks for new patterns.

Sometimes my local shop doesn't have the hook I'm looking for so I gotta buy online and that's where the problem arises.
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Totally get it :(
 
It’s been like that for as long as I can remember. Even within makers, there’s never been a standard. Back in the 1980’s I used to get boxes of “1000 assorted hooks” from Partridge, and then re-sort them according to the size of fly I could tie on them rather than what it said on the little bit of folded waxed paper each type came in. The flies sold well enough at the local shop, even though there was a wide variety of hook types for each fly size!

It’s actually slightly better now, because there are comparison charts on the internet. If they existed back then, they weren’t available to kids making beer money tying flies!
 
adamcu280 said:
That's a cool comparison chart. Doesn't really cover the size differences though, which is why I think it'd be nice to know things like "Ahrex run 1-2 sizes larger than Daiichi" or "Gamakatsu runs one size smaller than Kona", etc.
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True. One of the reasons I stick with Ahrex is because they do post their sizes for each and every hook they sell. Not really on Ahrex to tell you a Firehole #20 is a 2/0 hook.
 
Jake Watrous said:
True. One of the reasons I stick with Ahrex is because they do post their sizes for each and every hook they sell. Not really on Ahrex to tell you a Firehole #20 is a 2/0 hook.
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I like Ahrex hooks too and try to use them when I can, and I agree that it's not on them to compare sizes. This is why I suggested that @SpawnFlyFish (or any other online retailer that sells multiple brands of hook) to put a comparison chart together so consumers can have a better idea of what size to get. Sounds like this is an age-old problem and if we can't get brands to get consistent, maybe it's time for retailers to take up the slack.
 
adamcu280 said:
I like Ahrex hooks too and try to use them when I can, and I agree that it's not on them to compare sizes. This is why I suggested that @SpawnFlyFish (or any other online retailer that sells multiple brands of hook) to put a comparison chart together so consumers can have a better idea of what size to get. Sounds like this is an age-old problem and if we can't get brands to get consistent, maybe it's time for retailers to take up the slack.
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@SpawnFlyFish Josh, send me hooks and I’ll send you back measurements.

(Worth a shot).
 
Dumb question? Probably...

Is a hook manufacturer consistent across their product lines in size e.g. run large and wide gap, or is it a crap shoot for each style/type and size hook?

Note: I have not tied steelhead flies for 25 years when I gave up fishing for them. Long ago there were not a lot of choices in manufacturers. So I have been with the same manufacturer for decades. The best? Probably not. Good enough to tie with and catch fish? Absolutely! I know what to expect when I buy/order hooks. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
 
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The OP misleads with the title “Hook Size Inconsistency” as it implies there is a hook sizing standard that should be adhered to. There is not. Hook numerical sizes are based on a long-standing convention that numbers hooks proportionally up or down from a base hook model. Any given hook number’s physical dimensions are only relative to the hook model and nothing else. There would inconsistency if Brand X hook model Z size #2 showed up with different dimensions every time you bought it. The best advice given so far in this thread for the OP to find a hook brand, hook style and physical size they like and stick with it. If you want a 1.5” hook with a normal gap then find one and stick with it. IMO far too much emphasis is placed of the efficacy of a particular hook brand, style and size needed for any given fly pattern. The fish don’t care and good tiers can adapt patterns to a wide variety of hooks. What is important is hook quality as some brands do not produce hooks of consistent quality. Additionally asking for “someone” to measure hook brands, styles and sizes to produce a comparison is ludacris. The number of physical measurements that would have to be made and recorded would be astronomical given the number of distinct brands, models, and sizes of fly hooks on the market today. It would probably not be accurate across all brands, models, sizes due to human error. But more importantly, the differences one might encounter between brands, models and sizes would be absolutely irrelevant to the efficacy of the hooks in question.
 
Mike Cline said:
The OP misleads with the title “Hook Size Inconsistency” as it implies there is a hook sizing standard that should be adhered to. There is not. Hook numerical sizes are based on a long-standing convention that numbers hooks proportionally up or down from a base hook model. Any given hook number’s physical dimensions are only relative to the hook model and nothing else. There would inconsistency if Brand X hook model Z size #2 showed up with different dimensions every time you bought it. The best advice given so far in this thread for the OP to find a hook brand, hook style and physical size they like and stick with it. If you want a 1.5” hook with a normal gap then find one and stick with it. IMO far too much emphasis is placed of the efficacy of a particular hook brand, style and size needed for any given fly pattern. The fish don’t care and good tiers can adapt patterns to a wide variety of hooks. What is important is hook quality as some brands do not produce hooks of consistent quality. Additionally asking for “someone” to measure hook brands, styles and sizes to produce a comparison is ludacris. The number of physical measurements that would have to be made and recorded would be astronomical given the number of distinct brands, models, and sizes of fly hooks on the market today. It would probably not be accurate across all brands, models, sizes due to human error. But more importantly, the differences one might encounter between brands, models and sizes would be absolutely irrelevant to the efficacy of the hooks in question.
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You can pick apart the semantics all you want but if a 2/0 isn’t a 2/0 isn’t a 2/0 then that’s the definition of inconsistent. I believe I’ve stated my case well, including why I can’t just stick to what works all the time. I’ve heard my complaint from numerous well-respected people, Brita Fordice being the most recent, so I know I’m not alone.

Have a great day.

Edit: he’s just asking for hooks to measure.
IMG_1446.jpeg
 
RCF said:
Dumb question? Probably...

Is a hook manufacturer consistent across their product lines in size e.g. run large and wide gap, or is it a crap shoot for each style/type and size hook?

Note: I have not tied steelhead flies for 25 years when I gave up fishing for them. Long ago there were not a lot of choices in manufacturers. So I have been with the same manufacturer for decades. The best? Probably not. Good enough to tie with and catch fish? Absolutely! I know what to expect when I buy/order hooks. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Click to expand...
Mostly, every major brand offers a wide variety of hooks that are relatively interchangeable and the differences are usually subtle.

Some brands have certain trends. For example, Firehole hooks are often far larger for their stated size while Gamakatsu hooks are often thinner and smaller These trends don’t necessarily hold true for all hook models by the companies, though.

As stated previously, I like Ahrex not because their hooks have some magic properties but because they remove the mystery. I can buy a new-to-me hook model and know exactly how it will compare to other hooks I’ve used or what patterns I can expect it will do well with.
 
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