Charging people for backcountry rescue?

[krusty]

Always better to spend a lousy night's sleep rather than take a risk in the dark, panic is what causes a lot accidents. You made the right call.

I am hopeful my current cell phone lasts long enough to be replaced with a low cost satellite phone with great coverage. Pushing the button on the Spot sets pretty dramatic action in motion. Being able to call and explain the situation and maybe get directed to safety would be better than an all out rescue?

A Garmin Inreach Explorer allows you to two-way communicate with anybody on earth that has a cell phone (or a computer or smartphone with an email). It also has an SOS button that puts you in direct communication with their emergency center...they don't just 'launch the cavalry' when you press it...they'll be asking you what the problem is.

I've carried one for years, but have only used it to let my wife know I'm running late coming home or moving to a different lake/location. The Garmin also has a decent GPS map of North America that I've used a great deal hiking, backcountry skiing/snowshoeing. When you send a text the recipient sees exactly where you are sending it from on a map....as would the emergency group at Garmin if you sent an SOS.

I carry it on motorcycle and automobile road trips as well....lots of areas in the west without cell coverage, and if we had an accident or came across one we could summon emergency medical help. Time is of the essence in such things.....we had a very close friend that died hours after a motorcycle accident far outside cell phone range...a satellite device could have helped launch an air ambulance rather than the hours it took to get her to a hosptal trauma unit.

Also had another friend who credits his Garmin with making an extended whiteout on Mount Hood just an unpleasant experience...his climbing party couldn't see a damn thing, but were well equipped, experienced, and hunkered down until conditions changed....that let rangers (and family) know things were fine, exactly where they were, and that there was no reason for rescue personnel to launch a dangerous rescue effort.

A two way satellite communicator is a not a substitute for good sense and preparation....I consider it just another important piece of 'outdoor adventuring equipment'.

A lot of my outdoor recreation is done solo, far outside cellphone coverage. At a minimum it very significantly reduces my wife's stress about a 70 year wandering around in the sticks....and worst case it would probably provide some solace to her (and considerably less effort, danger and expense for S&R personnel) to know exactly where to find whatever is left of my raggedy old carcass.

I should add that over my working career I had a LOT of experience with emergency response personnel. With the exception of cases involving outright stupidity or criminality, I've found them to be uniformly stimulated by performing the actions they incessantly train for...society treats them like heroes (which they very often are). Unlike many jobs there's no question that what they do is an essential service to society...and I think that constantly reinforces their well-earned sense of positive self-worth.

 

[O' Clarkii Lewisi]

A Garmin Inreach Explorer allows you to two-way communicate with anybody on earth that has a cell phone (or a computer or smartphone with an email). It also has an SOS button that puts you in direct communication with their emergency center...they don't just 'launch the cavalry' when you press it...they'll be asking you what the problem is.

I've carried one for years, but have only used it to let my wife know I'm running late coming home or moving to a different lake/location. The Garmin also has a decent GPS map of North America that I've used a great deal hiking, backcountry skiing/snowshoeing. When you send a text the recipient sees exactly where you are sending it from on a map....as would the emergency group at Garmin if you sent an SOS.

I carry it on motorcycle and automobile road trips as well....lots of areas in the west without cell coverage, and if we had an accident or came across one we could summon emergency medical help. Time is of the essence in such things.....we had a very close friend that died hours after a motorcycle accident far outside cell phone range...a satellite device could have helped launch an air ambulance rather than the hours it took to get her to a hosptal trauma unit.

Also had another friend who credits his Garmin with making an extended whiteout on Mount Hood just an unpleasant experience...his climbing party couldn't see a damn thing, but were well equipped, experienced, and hunkered down until conditions changed....that let rangers (and family) know things were fine, exactly where they were, and that there was no reason for rescue personnel to launch a dangerous rescue effort.

A two way satellite communicator is a not a substitute for good sense and preparation....I consider it just another important piece of 'outdoor adventuring equipment'.

A lot of my outdoor recreation is done solo, far outside cellphone coverage. At a minimum it very significantly reduces my wife's stress about a 70 year wandering around in the sticks....and worst case it would probably provide some solace to her (and considerably less effort, danger and expense for S&R personnel) to know exactly where to find whatever is left of my raggedy old carcass.

I should add that over my working career I had a LOT of experience with emergency response personnel. With the exception of cases involving outright stupidity or criminality, I've found them to be uniformly stimulated by performing the actions they incessantly train for...society treats them like heroes (which they very often are). Unlike many jobs there's no question that what they do is an essential service to society...and I think that constantly reinforces their well-earned sense of positive self-worth.

Back to Josh's original post-I don't understand why the idiot's sleds were not confiscated and sold to help defray the cost of rescue.

Back in the '60's when I was living in the Sierra Nevada I talked to a ranger that had caught 2 guys in the back country on trail bikes. They promised to ride them out immediately but instead he took the spark plugs and ordered them to walk out. They were unable to retrieve the bikes as a result and had to hire a pack train outfitter to go in and carry them out on mules. Some disassembly required.

Genius! Instead of putting the spark plugs back and riding them out, hire a pack train, and pay someone to disassemble the bikes.

 

[hookedonthefly]

On the move so didn’t read entire thread. Apologies if redundant. As a guide, I had an adder on my policy should things go side ways that covered “emergency rescue”. There are also personal/individual policies available. I carried a marine radio, SPOT, EPIRB and - Sat phone (when indicated). It’s kinda like an Uber payment plan instead of DUI. Ed

 

[Rob Allen]

I have mixed feelings.

Everyone should get rescued regardless of their ability to pay.

On the other hand forcing other people to pay for it seems wrong too.

I see both sides but can't decide which is right.

 

[flybill]

I find this pretty simple, rescue the person(s) and then figure the rest out. If they broke a law, write them a fine, or charge them with the appropriate crime. Lots of shit happens, I've had a close call on the Yakima before. A few on this site know about it. I could have self rescued if I had too, but was floating with others who sprang into action to help me. I also didn't panic and had on the appropriate gear (particularily a wading belt) and had my shit tied down.

I've fallen, never bad and had to hobble out. I know my limits and will turn around and prefer to fish with others, in case something happens to me or them!

I carry the 10 essentials most of the time, actually 12 essentials if you include cigars and whisk(e)y. I know basic first aid and have water with me as well. I have used a water bottle with a filter in it or carried iodine tablets as a backup.

I know not to rely on my cellphone and will have a map if I plan on a backcounrty trip. Years ago, I was buying a really good life jacket and rescue knife from a little shop in Redmond for my 14' sit on top kayak. We got to talking about solo kayak trips or even with others around Vancouver Island.. He said one of the biggest mistakes the casual adventurer made was to rely on their cell phone. He prefered to not even carry his and would have a satellite phone and/or rescue beacon. More importantly he had maps and some knowledge of the area. First aid basics and probably CPR.

Any of the guys who guide here, have insurance, basic first aid, CPR and knowledge of the area(s) they guide! And know how to row or operate their boat(s)! You honestly can't be too prepared with the correct layers of clothing, a good knife, lighter and matches and the rest of the 10 essentials. You also have to know how to use them, or start a fire even if it's wet and damp. A bag of fritos or chips with help. Firestarters, bought or homemade with cotton balls and petroleum jelly..

So rescue the idiots, the assholes who left all of their empty beer cans and pissed or worse where you want to sit or fish. Charge them with an approprite crime if they broke a law or three.. Ideally send them to a class on how to hike or fish safely.. like gun safety or getting your drivers license. Darwin will take care of the rest.. and you can't fix stoopid!

Oh yeah, and let Judge Jojo decide any of the shit that comes up in her court, I would call it the Darwin Court! And they already have the Darwin awards every year..

 

[SurfnFish]

Someone told me that his buddy's boat broke down offshore. He got rescued by the Coast Guard. Then they sent him a bill a few weeks later. Hahaha. No.

Never heard of that. I was the skipper on a coastal SAR (Search And Rescue) boat out of a federal port that had no CG on station, we never charged for rescues/tows, and never heard of the CG charging for SAR's either. When I was later running a 65' sportsfisher, twice CG performed offshore helo pick-ups for heart attacks we were able to stablize with CPR until they arrived, CG never charged a dime for air lifting them to the hospital. And know multiple crab boat skippers who got towed by the CG, never charged for it. It's what they do, and none do it better.

 

[Brian Miller]

A Garmin Inreach Explorer allows you to two-way communicate with anybody on earth that has a cell phone (or a computer or smartphone with an email). It also has an SOS button that puts you in direct communication with their emergency center...they don't just 'launch the cavalry' when you press it...they'll be asking you what the problem is.

I know my limits and will turn around

Both, well said. I don't use an inReach but am a licensed amateur (ham) radio operator and use the mobile VHF radio in my SUV with the global "Automatic Packet Reporting System" (APRS) that is used by many SAR organizations worldwide. It digitally "beacons" the radio's GPS position every 5 minutes through internet "iGate" stations as I travel to-from hiking-fishing destinations. When I get to my destination I send an email through an iGate to Mrs Brian's cellular text email address stating I have arrived and what direction I am heading. I also email when I have returned to the vehicle with my ETA @ home. The text contains a link that she has saved in her cellphone browser to a Google map she can view at any time showing a SUV icon with the latest route taken when the radio was "beaconing", and its last transmission position. The service is free and since I already have the gear and am authorized (licensed) to use it I take full advantage every time I hike-fish.

CG never charged a dime for air lifting them to the hospital. And know multiple crab boat skippers who got towed by the CG, never charged for it. It's what they do, and none do it better.

I feel the same way about the 304th Rescue Squadron (PDX) and Company F, 2nd Battalion, 135th Aviation Regiment (JBLM), who has a mutual aid contract with the National Park Service to provide rescue operations above 10,000 feet on Mount Rainier.

 

[Old Man]

When I came to Montana a few time before I moved here. I had some car trouble and several times I was in an area where the was no signal for the phone. But when I called 911 it went through. So if your in areas with people and no coverage, 911 will work.

 

[_WW_]

The older I get, the quicker the trip will be to rescue me.

 

[krusty]

When I came to Montana a few time before I moved here. I had some car trouble and several times I was in an area where the was no signal for the phone. But when I called 911 it went through. So if your in areas with people and no coverage, 911 will work.

Sometimes...but not always.

 

[Rob Allen]

The older I get, the quicker the trip will be to rescue me.

Ain't that the unfortunate truth. I miss being lost in the woods.

 

[hookedonthefly]

Both, well said. I don't use an inReach but am a licensed amateur (ham) radio operator and use the mobile VHF radio in my SUV with the global "Automatic Packet Reporting System" (APRS) that is used by many SAR organizations worldwide. It digitally "beacons" the radio's GPS position every 5 minutes through internet "iGate" stations as I travel to-from hiking-fishing destinations. When I get to my destination I send an email through an iGate to Mrs Brian's cellular text email address stating I have arrived and what direction I am heading. I also email when I have returned to the vehicle with my ETA @ home. The text contains a link that she has saved in her cellphone browser to a Google map she can view at any time showing a SUV icon with the latest route taken when the radio was "beaconing", and its last transmission position. The service is free and since I already have the gear and am authorized (licensed) to use it I take full advantage every time I hike-fish.


I feel the same way about the 304th Rescue Squadron (PDX) and Company F, 2nd Battalion, 135th Aviation Regiment (JBLM), who has a mutual aid contract with the National Park Service to provide rescue operations above 10,000 feet on Mount Rainier.

I broke down in the Gulf of Mexico…Dang long night as CG had to drag my Asz back out 30nm to tow another boat in. When we finally got to the dock, another 30nm away, I pulled out my checkbook; and, CG dude said it’s no charge. What sucked was I had Tow”what a jip”BoatUS but was 3 nm out of their service area.

 

[Banned user]

I'm ambivalent about making folks pay for back country rescue. I'm sure a lot of folks need rescuing because of their own stupidity, but unforseen things sometimes happen even to the well-prepared.

 

[flybill]

This is a timely post, Josh, as in the last 24 hrs, I have spoken to two friends about the wisdom of doing a 5-6 day solo float/fishing/camping trip on a Class 1 & 2 river (I have rowed Class 4). I do know that conventional wisdom is that one should always have a buddy in the outdoors. However, I also know plenty of people who do high level solo expedition trips, both on land and at sea. Heck, I have done up to two week solo backpacking/fishing trips and other solo paddling trips. So, a semi-wilderness solo float trip (I know there will be other people on the river at the same time) doesn’t seem that stupid. Until it is. Sure, I have an emergency beacon, Swiftwater rescue training, Wilderness First Aid/Responder training, but accidents happen and if it does, my solo trip will seem stupid to most people.

Some countries charge for all rescues, stupid or not. When doing outdoor activities overseas, I research the local situation; a few times, I’ve even joined foreign hiking clubs to be covered by their rescue insurance. I am not sure if these pay-for-rescue schemes reduce stupidity though as when I joined a couple of the foreign clubs’ trips, I could not believe the lack of skills, safety protocol and lack of proper equipment that some/most club members had. The Mountaineers, who are very safety conscious club, would have had a heart attack if they saw what I saw!

Look at who and how many attempt to climb Mt. Everest and other peaks! Yes, you have to be in shape, mentally and physcially, but really you have to have the $$ to pay to get there and up to the top. Plus be able to endure the altitude! And realize you are killing your brain just acclimating to the conditions as you climb up, and back down, and up a little farther, and back down.. we were not meant to be up there, but many have done it know they could die at any point along the way. And they were as prepared as they could be!

The most important thing a mountain climber knows is:
"Once you reach the top, you're only half way! You still have to get yourself back down.."

Same applies to rafting, or any water sport. There is never too much preparation and know matter what you do, you can still get in trouble. Stay clam and deal with one thing at a time as best you can.

And you can't fix stoopid.. well not anyones elses.. only yours!

 

[hookedonthefly]

Look at who and how many attempt to climb Mt. Everest and other peaks! Yes, you have to be in shape, mentally and physcially, but really you have to have the $$ to pay to get there and up to the top. Plus be able to endure the altitude! And realize you are killing your brain just acclimating to the conditions as you climb up, and back down, and up a little farther, and back down.. we were not meant to be up there, but many have done it know they could die at any point along the way. And they were as prepared as they could be!

The most important thing a mountain climber knows is:
"Once you reach the top, you're only half way! You still have to get yourself back down.."

Same applies to rafting, or any water sport. There is never too much preparation and know matter what you do, you can still get in trouble. Stay clam and deal with one thing at a time as best you can.

And you can't fix stoopid.. well not anyones elses.. only yours!

I don’t need as much adrenaline as in the past; but, I’ve done whatever it takes when people needed help/assistance. Some pretty gnarly stuff. There was a sticker on the outside of the plane we left, “God bless the Freaks”.

 

[nwbobber]

I've always believed in helping those in need, and never asked anything in return. Hopefully folks pay it forward. As a society I would hope we collectively would do the same, although some of the examples given reflect the need of a lesson in how not to be an asshat, and I think that should also be provided, and could be costly as hell.

 

[DoesItFloat]

Never heard of that. I was the skipper on a coastal SAR (Search And Rescue) boat out of a federal port that had no CG on station, we never charged for rescues/tows, and never heard of the CG charging for SAR's either. When I was later running a 65' sportsfisher, twice CG performed offshore helo pick-ups for heart attacks we were able to stablize with CPR until they arrived, CG never charged a dime for air lifting them to the hospital. And know multiple crab boat skippers who got towed by the CG, never charged for it. It's what they do, and none do it better.

I guess some people don't understand taxes and their association with military services.

 

[hookedonthefly]

Look at who and how many attempt to climb Mt. Everest and other peaks! Yes, you have to be in shape, mentally and physcially, but really you have to have the $$ to pay to get there and up to the top. Plus be able to endure the altitude! And realize you are killing your brain just acclimating to the conditions as you climb up, and back down, and up a little farther, and back down.. we were not meant to be up there, but many have done it know they could die at any point along the way. And they were as prepared as they could be!

The most important thing a mountain climber knows is:
"Once you reach the top, you're only half way! You still have to get yourself back down.."

Same applies to rafting, or any water sport. There is never too much preparation and know matter what you do, you can still get in trouble. Stay clam and deal with one thing at a time as best you can.

And you can't fix stoopid.. well not anyones elses.. only yours!

No oxygen...left A/C at 18.9k‘. Tapped pilot Dude on shoulder and said I have to get out now. Hypoxia is cool right up until it’s not.

 

[Old Man]

Here in Montana when you buy your Fishing license, they ask if you want to donate 25 cents to Search and Rescue . I said sure I will. It should take a lot of donations at 25 cents to get to a working cost per Rescue. I would of donated more but they didn't ask for anymore.

 

[Cliff]

No, people should not be charged for backcountry rescues.