WTF, WDFW?

[charles sullivan]

It doesn’t change the position of the committee, man. Nothing is going to change those peoples minds and only a change in governor is going to give any hope to change to personnel on the committee. That’s not hyperbole.

I will be lobbying some local rep's next week when their hangover subsides.

I will also be contacting more fish advocacy groups.

I also have a potential tribal contact. I am not sure that they want wolves on the East side nor would they care for animal rights groups, or WFC. So, that's my plan.

The governorship is unlikely to change for a bunch of reasons. There are other options.

 

[JS]

I will be lobbying some local rep's next week when their hangover subsides.

I will also be contacting more fish advocacy groups.

I also have a potential tribal contact. I am not sure that they want wolves on the East side nor would they care for animal rights groups, or WFC. So, that's my plan.

The governorship is unlikely to change for a bunch of reasons. There are other options.

Godspeed, duder!

 

[Gyrfalcon22]

Without the constant yearly influx of w wa tax dollars and the massive federal expenditures in years past, most of e wa would be a god forsaken dry and dusty desert inhabited by inbreds giant trout !!!!!

Always wanted to try this. Fixed it for you !

 

[Zak]

I'm curious about the group Backcountry Hunters and Anglers:

Backcountry Hunters and Anglers

Backcountry Hunters & Anglers is the voice for our wild public lands, waters and wildlife.

www.backcountryhunters.org

Are they active in WA? Does anyone know anything about this group, good or bad?

 

[Long_Rod_Silvers]

I'm curious about the group Backcountry Hunters and Anglers:

Backcountry Hunters and Anglers

Backcountry Hunters & Anglers is the voice for our wild public lands, waters and wildlife.

www.backcountryhunters.org

Are they active in WA? Does anyone know anything about this group, good or bad?

@Millsfly can fill you in on what they do.
Rad group from what I've heard from them, and yes they're active in WA.

 

[Mossback]

Washington Backcountry Hunters & Anglers

Learn more about the work that Washington Backcountry Hunters & Anglers is doing on behalf of your wild public lands, waters and wildlife.

www.backcountryhunters.org

 

[Smalma]

People just do not get it! Just like with our anadromous fish the underlying problem is us; there are too many of us.

In 1950 (3 years after I was born) the population in this state was 2.4 million and in 2020 it had grown to 7.7 million a 3.2-fold increase.
In the same period the population of the US has grown from 150.7 million to 336 million a 2.2-fold increase.
In the same period the world's population grew from 2.5 billion to 7.8 billion.

Until such time as we collectively recognize what our impacts are on the rest of the world's critters are and modify our impacts, we will continue to see collapsing wildlife populations and attempts to allocate how we use them is a stopgap measure at best.

Curt

 

[Billy]

People just do not get it! Just like with our anadromous fish the underlying problem is us; there are too many of us.

In 1950 (3 years after I was born) the population in this state was 2.4 million and in 2020 it had grown to 7.7 million a 3.2-fold increase.
In the same period the population of the US has grown from 150.7 million to 336 million a 2.2-fold increase.
In the same period the world's population grew from 2.5 billion to 7.8 billion.

Until such time as we collectively recognize what our impacts are on the rest of the world's critters are and modify our impacts, we will continue to see collapsing wildlife populations and attempts to allocate how we use them is a stopgap measure at best.

Curt

I don't think you will find anyone arguing that the world's population is not an issue.

However let's call a spade a spade and realize bad management is still bad management.

 

[Coach Potter]

People just do not get it! Just like with our anadromous fish the underlying problem is us; there are too many of us.

In 1950 (3 years after I was born) the population in this state was 2.4 million and in 2020 it had grown to 7.7 million a 3.2-fold increase.
In the same period the population of the US has grown from 150.7 million to 336 million a 2.2-fold increase.
In the same period the world's population grew from 2.5 billion to 7.8 billion.

Until such time as we collectively recognize what our impacts are on the rest of the world's critters are and modify our impacts, we will continue to see collapsing wildlife populations and attempts to allocate how we use them is a stopgap measure at best.

Curt

I don't think you will find anyone arguing that the world's population is not an issue.

However let's call a spade a spade and realize bad management is still bad management.

Billy...it's not bad management. They have a different objective than we do. They are doing an outstanding job of reaching their objective. They're a lot closer to getting things the way they want them vs the way you and I want them.

Smalma is right...people just don't get it...some people don't realize that the department is moving away from what we believed their job to be.

 

[JS]

This is where things get interesting….

We have folks among us saying, “if they’d only shut down the rivers for 10-15 years, then the steelhead/salmon would be back.” That’s just not true, and furthermore, it encourages an attitude that hunting/fishing is the reason that there is a decline in species in a given environment.

I’m curious if folks who hunt have as many allies as we think. It would appear that there is a large group of folks who believe that hunting is barbaric, needless and senseless, and don’t care to look into the fact that man has managed game for a very, very long time. As unfortunate as it is, some of these folks have landed on the governor appointed game commission.

I’m going to go enjoy some hunting while it’s still there to enjoy.

 

[Coach Potter]

This is where things get interesting….

We have folks among us saying, “if they’d only shut down the rivers for 10-15 years, then the steelhead/salmon would be back.” That’s just not true, and furthermore, it encourages an attitude that hunting/fishing is the reason that there is a decline in species in a given environment.

I’m curious if folks who hunt have as many allies as we think. It would appear that there is a large group of folks who believe that hunting is barbaric, needless and senseless, and don’t care to look into the fact that man has managed game for a very, very long time. As unfortunate as it is, some of these folks have landed on the governor appointed game commission.

I’m going to go enjoy some hunting while it’s still there to enjoy.

There is a massive gap between conservation and preservation. The group that seems to be taking control believes in preservation. There is no room for compromise when you are at a fundamental impasse. Hunters don't have many allies in WA state.

 

[creekx]

This is where things get interesting….

We have folks among us saying, “if they’d only shut down the rivers for 10-15 years, then the steelhead/salmon would be back.” That’s just not true, and furthermore, it encourages an attitude that hunting/fishing is the reason that there is a decline in species in a given environment.

I’m curious if folks who hunt have as many allies as we think. It would appear that there is a large group of folks who believe that hunting is barbaric, needless and senseless, and don’t care to look into the fact that man has managed game for a very, very long time. As unfortunate as it is, some of these folks have landed on the governor appointed game commission.

I’m going to go enjoy some hunting while it’s still there to enjoy.

Also, it is easy to get people to care about land animals because they can see and appreciate 'bambi' or a cute bear cub. But without sportfishing, how many would really GAF about redbands or bull trout? You wouldn't readily see them. They're not cute and furry. Of course we think they're beautiful, but to many they are slimy creatures no one would touch. I can't even fathom a world without sportfishing. Imagine trying to rally people for the cause of stream quality in the name of something they can't see, appreciate, or just stare at with amazement before releasing it back into it's environment.

 

[Rob Allen]

This is my take on it.

But I'm genuinely unsure if there is anything that can be done to stop it. There are powerful political forces at play that we have never been able to overcome as sportsmen. And then if you add in more well funded groups that care more about conservation than the ability to harvest... I don't know where that leaves us.

Consent of the governed” refers to the idea that a government's legitimacy and moral right to use state power is justified and lawful only when consented, or agreed to, by the people over which that political power is exercised.

 

[Millsfly]

The Wild Fish Conservancy and a few other groups have teamed up with many of the members. I sent an e-mail to The Conservation Angler a couple weeks ago. I spoke with their Executive Director after he called me (I was impressed). Excellent conversation. We disagreed. I suspect more discussion with the groups that are supported by anglers would help.

This is the reason taking anger out on WDFW for things that hey have no control over hurts (habitat, development permits, ag, dams etc.). So......look at those groups that are willing to team up with the humane society of the US and contact them! Nothing happens here on this forum except formulating a better way forward. So go on and do it!

I would start with the Wild Fish Conservancy or The Conservation Angler. TCA know that teaming up with animal rights groups was not OK. I was generally calm. I know my stuff, so I could speak to why reforming the agency was silly. The Wild Steelhead Coalition may be receptive as well.

The odd thing is that many of the members of these groups hunt and fish. They have just been trained to hate WDFW. If WDFW is the target, no meaningful progress will happen. There is no path to fish increases to be found in the sportfishing rulebook. Hatcheries are only an issue in certain places and certainly are not on the scale of the habitat issues that are overseen by ACE, DNR, Local Planning Dept's, DOE, Wash DOT....

So call or write the Governor, your local rep's, and the fish org's that partner with animal rights activists!

I will be writing my new rep's soon and very often.

WSC aint teaming up with this lot of anti hunting/anti fishing lot. No faking way

 

[Millsfly]

I'm curious about the group Backcountry Hunters and Anglers:

Backcountry Hunters and Anglers

Backcountry Hunters & Anglers is the voice for our wild public lands, waters and wildlife.

www.backcountryhunters.org

Are they active in WA? Does anyone know anything about this group, good or bad?

Howdy Zak,

Yep, WA ST BHA is super active, and doing great work. As a matter of fact our WA ST board was one of the first groups to sound the alarm about this animal rights consortium that we feel are trying to undermine the North American Model of Conservation.

Also, we were at the head of the table trying to defend the spring bear season in Washington. Ultimately, as others have mentioned the commission went fully against the departments science based recs and voted away from science and went with feelings

BHA as a whole seeks to be "the voice for the wild public lands, waters and wildlife". There are chapters in 48 states and 3 Canadian provinces..also we have clubs in 26 colleges and 23 military installations with our Armed Forces Initiative.

We do a ton of on the ground habitat improvement, public land and water cleanups as well. Additionally we work on big picture issues like Recovering America's wildlife act, Land and Water Conservation Fund and a ton of stuff from regional, state and national level

If you ever have a question, feel free to hit me up!

 

[charles sullivan]

This is where things get interesting….

We have folks among us saying, “if they’d only shut down the rivers for 10-15 years, then the steelhead/salmon would be back.” That’s just not true, and furthermore, it encourages an attitude that hunting/fishing is the reason that there is a decline in species in a given environment.

I’m curious if folks who hunt have as many allies as we think. It would appear that there is a large group of folks who believe that hunting is barbaric, needless and senseless, and don’t care to look into the fact that man has managed game for a very, very long time. As unfortunate as it is, some of these folks have landed on the governor appointed game commission.

I’m going to go enjoy some hunting while it’s still there to enjoy.

Recent studies indicate 77% of the people in WA have a favorable view of hunting.
I am a hunter. More and more, I have a negative view of most hunters, regardless of how much I love hunting. The reason is that since starting hunting again, I find myself conversing with hunters more and more. Honestly, just reading most of the bumper stickers at Cabelas gives me a negative feeling.
Hunters could do a lot to help themselves. Their is a vocal subset that is difficult to ignore.

 

[Shad]

Recent studies indicate 77% of the people in WA have a favorable view of hunting.
I am a hunter. More and more, I have a negative view of most hunters, regardless of how much I love hunting. The reason is that since starting hunting again, I find myself conversing with hunters more and more. Honestly, just reading most of the bumper stickers at Cabelas gives me a negative feeling.
Hunters could do a lot to help themselves. Their is a vocal subset that is difficult to ignore.

Surprised to learn there's that much support for hunting, but then, people's opinions have never been the problem. The bigger problem is that most of the general population isn't directly impacted by decisions that restrict hunting and fishing, so they don't really care. Only people that are directly affected by something care enough to fight for what they perceive to be justice, and let's face it, that's a small minority in this case.

 

[krusty]

Surprised to learn there's that much support for hunting, but then, people's opinions have never been the problem. The bigger problem is that most of the general population isn't directly impacted by decisions that restrict hunting and fishing, so they don't really care. Only people that are directly affected by something care enough to fight for what they perceive to be justice, and let's face it, that's a small minority in this case.

Yup. It's very difficult to be passionate about preserving something you've never experienced or have any wish to do so....particularly hunting, which is an activity that most are 'born' into and not otherwise easily acquired.

 

[charles sullivan]

Surprised to learn there's that much support for hunting, but then, people's opinions have never been the problem. The bigger problem is that most of the general population isn't directly impacted by decisions that restrict hunting and fishing, so they don't really care. Only people that are directly affected by something care enough to fight for what they perceive to be justice, and let's face it, that's a small minority in this case.

You bet. Most people vote on other issues. I do. There are things, like my kids, who are more important than hunting and fishing.
I took my family to cabelas to buy a cow call about 1 year ago after a kids soccer game. As we pulled in, the wife and kids(both literate) saw the bumper stickers. They both quickly agreed that they were not going to go inside. They parked where a quick escape was possible.
Hunters have become their own enemy from a PR perspective. My family has no issue with hunting. They want nothing to do with the guys in the trucks wih those bumper stickers.

 

[TicTokCroc]

You bet. Most people vote on other issues. I do. There are things, like my kids, who are more important than hunting and fishing.
I took my family to cabelas to buy a cow call about 1 year ago after a kids soccer game. As we pulled in, the wife and kids(both literate) saw the bumper stickers. They both quickly agreed that they were not going to go inside. They parked where a quick escape was possible.
Hunters have become their own enemy from a PR perspective. My family has no issue with hunting. They want nothing to do with the guys in the trucks wih those bumper stickers.

Little bit dramatic maybe? Even I have ducked down in the brush when a really sketchy old pickup has approached on some remote gravel back roads but I think your ok at Cabelas.