Tribes fish and WDFW roll over again.

[Rob Allen]

Last time I checked it wasn't the tribes who destroyed the salmon runs. It seems pretty ridiculous to complain about them getting to fish first.

Last time I checked I had absolutely nothing to do with destroyed salmon runs.. Native Americans have benefitted from the activities related to their destruction in exactly the same manner and to the same exact level as I have. I don't begrudge them anything they can have exclusive right to the coho for all I care.
But this in no way shape or form is fisheries restoration.... it's just another hatchery/harvest program.

Restoration is when you stop planting and still have a run of fish.

No problems at all with the program, just call it what it is..

 

[Smalma]

Please correct me if I wrong but haven't the recreational fishers and the treaty and non-treaty trolls been catch some Elwha coho in their marine fishers annually? It would seem hard to argue that the in-river treaty fishers to give up a C & S fishery while others are taking fish in front of them.

Curt

 

[Matt Paluch]

Last time I checked I had absolutely nothing to do with destroyed salmon runs.. Native Americans have benefitted from the activities related to their destruction in exactly the same manner and to the same exact level as I have. I don't begrudge them anything they can have exclusive right to the coho for all I care.
But this in no way shape or form is fisheries restoration.... it's just another hatchery/harvest program.

Restoration is when you stop planting and still have a run of fish.

No problems at all with the program, just call it what it is..

Our ancestors and our government (which is elected by us) certainly did destroy the salmon runs.

 

[Rob Allen]

Our ancestors and our government (which is elected by us) certainly did destroy the salmon runs.

The government is theirs too.. there is no US vs them.... it's just us. The tribes have benefitted from the dams, the logging, the hatcheries and development.. they are just as guilty as we are, they vote too.

 

[Stonedfish]

I don’t know if it makes much of a difference now but the hatchery was built during a time that the Elwha had 2 dams with no chance for upstream migration. Also without the tribe those 2 dams would still be there.
If we want to see fishing ever return to the Elwha learning to work with the tribe would serve us well. ONP has no interest in restoring fishing to the Elwha IMHO. ONP is very interested in working with the tribe. Both of these two entities have much more federal influence than the WDFW. The majority of the watershed is federal or tribal.

Didn’t the old hatchery that was there during the time the dams were there get decommission a few years after the dams came down and the new hatchery was built?
That is how I remember things.
SF

 

[Paige]

My problem is they keep extending the closures, and they get to fish. Guess what will happen next year, they will extend to closure again in the name of conservation all the while non selective gill nets will be deployed.

 

[Emily27]

The government is theirs too.. there is no US vs them.... it's just us. The tribes have benefitted from the dams, the logging, the hatcheries and development.. they are just as guilty as we are, they vote too.

The Elwha dams were built before indigenous people who lived on reservations or had tribal membership had the right to vote.
The first one was built before indigenous people had the right to vote at all.

They didn't ask for this.

 

[Rob Allen]

The Elwha dams were built before indigenous people who lived on reservations or had tribal membership had the right to vote.
The first one was built before indigenous people had the right to vote at all.

They didn't ask for this.

Neither did I.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

My problem is they keep extending the closures, and they get to fish. Guess what will happen next year, they will extend to closure again in the name of conservation all the while non selective gill nets will be deployed.

It's a ceremonial fishery. Best be careful or you and Rob will be sitting next to each other in cultural sensitivity reprogramming class.

Matt is instructing.

 

[Emily27]

Neither did I.

Jumping back to one of you're earlier posts you mention that indigenous people have benefited from essentially colonization in the exact same way you have (ignoring that those benefits have likely gone much more to you than them due to a variety of systemic factors, look up systemic racism effects or environmental justice and you can probably find babies first sociology lesson) do you think it matters that they have been hurt by colonization considerably more than you?

 

[Dustin Chromers]

Jumping back to one of you're earlier posts you mention that indigenous people have benefited from essentially colonization in the exact same way you have (ignoring that those benefits have likely gone much more to you than them due to a variety of systemic factors, look up systemic racism effects or environmental justice and you can probably find babies first sociology lesson) do you think it matters that they have been hurt by colonization considerably more than you?

Actually Emily is instructing. Matt is TA.

 

[Long_Rod_Silvers]

Jumping back to one of you're earlier posts you mention that indigenous people have benefited from essentially colonization in the exact same way you have (ignoring that those benefits have likely gone much more to you than them due to a variety of systemic factors, look up systemic racism effects or environmental justice and you can probably find babies first sociology lesson) do you think it matters that they have been hurt by colonization considerably more than you?

If we applied environmental justice to this situation, by it's own definition, wouldn't the tribes only get to fish when everyone else gets to fish?
What am I missing here?

Environmental justice is the fair treatment and meaningful involvement of all people regardless of race, color, national origin, or income, with respect to the development, implementation, and enforcement of environmental laws, regulations, and policies.

 

[Long_Rod_Silvers]

Shit, now that I think about it, this makes @Paige an environmental justice warrior. Atta boy.

 

[O' Clarkii Stomias]

I wonder when we'll see wild Elwha steelhead on the menu?

 

[Rob Allen]

Jumping back to one of you're earlier posts you mention that indigenous people have benefited from essentially colonization in the exact same way you have (ignoring that those benefits have likely gone much more to you than them due to a variety of systemic factors, look up systemic racism effects or environmental justice and you can probably find babies first sociology lesson) do you think it matters that they have been hurt by colonization considerably more than you?

Not going into the politics of that.

 

[Dr. Magill]

I don’t like to say this but this discussion is a good example of how politics slips into fishing threads. Factoid - our fishing opportunities are directly tied to politics

 

[SurfnFish]

Have no dog in this fight, but wasn't there 'a them' before there was 'a us"?

 

[Dustin Chromers]

I wonder when we'll see wild Elwha steelhead on the menu?

Without buyers there's no market. The dishonesty in marketing a great many products ensures a gullible consumer base to pedal "sustainable" products to.

 

[Rob Allen]

Have no dog in this fight, but wasn't there 'a them' before there was 'a us"?

Yes, that's how world history works... remember Washington before all the Californians and Michiganders moved it?

They are us now..

 

[Emily27]

If we applied environmental justice to this situation, by it's own definition, wouldn't the tribes only get to fish when everyone else gets to fish?
What am I missing here?

Environmental justice is the fair treatment and meaningful involvement of all people regardless of race, color, national origin, or income, with respect to the development, implementation, and enforcement of environmental laws, regulations, and policies.

I don't think so, from what I understand Environmental justice isn't imposing like stereotypical communist equality it's a framework to view how decisions are made and who those decisions effect. The first examples of environmental justice movements were criticizing the citing of waste and waste processing plants in communities with larger black communities, and the environmental justice part was people were going hey there's an inequity here and we think that inequity occurs because of x and then advocating for changes, but environmental justice as a field doesn't advocate a specific solution.

I could be off base but that is my general understanding.