NFR "The Hypocrite" TGR film about advocacy/fossil fuels/Outdoor State

[Hoofer]

This thread hasn’t focused on one part of the film: the idea of 50-million members of the “Outdoor State” and its potential political weight. That’s ~10x larger than the NRA’s membership, maybe 8x the size of the US Jewish community, 3x the number of union members, slightly larger than the African American community, about 90% the number of retired people, or 70% the size of the Catholic Church. It could be a big voice — and a bunch of us agree on a bunch of things.

 

[Zak]

See that falls apart too, as all of these “sustainable“ fuels have massive subsidies baked into them, and we’re still back at square one. And again, scale, there is nothing on the table that could ramp up to the massive amounts of oil consumed everyday. Realistic solutions are going to be a lot more challenging than falling into a left or right mindset and realizing there is no absolute victory.

But oil is finite. Why use it all up just because alternatives are hard? I used to be very antinuke, but I'm so concerned about climate change that I've changed my thinking on nuclear power. Especially in light of the small modular reactors posted above. Still hoping for fusion, but it's still 20 years away, I hear.

 

[Rob Allen]

Which brings us back to the very premise of the film: systemic change to break the cycle.

Tyrannical forced change you mean. You'll have better luck in 30 years when us old dinosaurs are gone..

 

[Scottybs]

But oil is finite. Why use it all up just because alternatives are hard? I used to be very antinuke, but I'm so concerned about climate change that I've changed my thinking on nuclear power. Especially in light of the small modular reactors posted above. Still hoping for fusion, but it's still 20 years away, I hear.

Nuclear seems to offer the best path going forward but still presents security and waste issues, but I still think it’s the best solution for the electrical grid.

 

[Rob Allen]

100 tons of carbon * $50/ton offset cost / 290 seats equals $17.24 per seat. Use a different offset cost if you’d like. We can afford to keep flying.

Is it fair that rich Americans get to fly fish in Alaska with less guilt if they pay for cleaner coal plants in India? I don’t know — but if the tech and the money work then I also don’t really care.

I don’t see why offsets can’t help. A lot. Believe it or not, there’s only one atmosphere.

Easy to set up, and administer? No. But it’s the most complex problem in human history so maybe we ought to expect some challenges.

It's fair for anyone who can afford to go fish in Alaska regardless of how much carbon they put in the atmosphere in order to get there. This is not a moral/fairness issue.

 

[adamcu280]

This thread hasn’t focused on one part of the film: the idea of 50-million members of the “Outdoor State” and its potential political weight. That’s ~10x larger than the NRA’s membership, maybe 8x the size of the US Jewish community, 3x the number of union members, slightly larger than the African American community, about 90% the number of retired people, or 70% the size of the Catholic Church. It could be a big voice — and a bunch of us agree on a bunch of things.

this was sort of covered earlier in the thread but the conclusion by many here was “no way I’m going to look past my snap judgment of those hypocritical self-righteous skier types and listen to what they are suggesting.”

Or “new/alternative tech or mindsets are too hard/expensive/not immediately perfect enough” which ignores the fact that current tech was/is not “cheap” and was not fully mature at birth either.

Then there’s the Dustins who totally reject the notion that anyone could think or act as if we’re all in this together, which we are whether we like it or not.

Part of the systemic change is getting people to think outside their selfish little boxes. But we’re discussing this on a fly fishing forum so we all have at least something in common so that’s a start! Of course even this common ground was shot down immediately…

 

[Flymph]

Very interesting debate with some compelling (sometimes political stubbornness) presented from both sides. In the end, it really doesn't matter because "WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE"! No body is forcing (as some keep moaning about) anyone else to become green. Our planet speaks for itself! All you have to do is tune out everything else and listen.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

this was sort of covered earlier in the thread but the conclusion by many here was “no way I’m going to look past my snap judgment of those hypocritical self-righteous skier types and listen to what they are suggesting.”

Or “new/alternative tech or mindsets are too hard/expensive/not immediately perfect enough” which ignores the fact that current tech was/is not “cheap” and was not fully mature at birth either.

Then there’s the Dustins who totally reject the notion that anyone could think or act as if we’re all in this together, which we are whether we like it or not.

Part of the systemic change is getting people to think outside their selfish little boxes.

We aren't in this together. I am actually living in such a way to have little impact. Forgive me if I see the irony of being lectured by a cohort of Instagram athletes who somehow want to export their guilt onto others. I really don't have an opinion about them until they make known their tone deaf opinions publicly or want to get behind legislation to limit wood stoves as they dwell in their parents townhouse in hipster ski town USA. But go ahead I'll give you a stunning and raise you a brave.

 

[adamcu280]

But go ahead I'll give you a stunning and raise you a brave.

This sentence may be the pièce de résistance of everything I’ve ever read from you! This is peak “edgy and hip”.

I have no idea what this is supposed to mean.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

This sentence may be the pièce de résistance of everything I’ve ever read from you! This is peak “edgy and hip”.

I have no idea what you mean with this.

It's a token phrase and gesture in response to token messages and branding by hypocrites. It's inauthentic and contrived. Kinda like living a carbon intense lifestyle then making a video. But way to focus on my non hip language rather than what I'm actually saying.

 

[SurfnFish]

This thread hasn’t focused on one part of the film: the idea of 50-million members of the “Outdoor State” and its potential political weight. That’s ~10x larger than the NRA’s membership, maybe 8x the size of the US Jewish community, 3x the number of union members, slightly larger than the African American community, about 90% the number of retired people, or 70% the size of the Catholic Church. It could be a big voice — and a bunch of us agree on a bunch of things.

The Outdoor State is no less disparate or less politically polarized than the rest of the electorate, so little chance 'they' could/would reach cohesive support on any significant reforms or objectives. And we are way past the tipping point, incrementals do little more than salve the personal conscience, which seems to be the real driver behind the film.

 

[adamcu280]

It's a token phrase and gesture in response to token messages and branding by hypocrites. It's inauthentic and contrived. Kinda like living a carbon intense lifestyle then making a video. But way to focus on my non hip language rather than what I'm actually saying.

What you’re actually saying makes as much sense to me as the video makes to you.

Carry on.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

The Outdoor State is no less disparate or less politically polarized than the rest of the electorate, so little chance 'they' could/would reach cohesive support on any significant reforms or objectives. And we are way past the tipping point, incrementals do little more than salve the personal conscience, which seems to be the real driver behind the film.

The outdoor community is fractured like the fishing community. I sense it's this way for lots of communities. The diversity of views is not negative but it makes movement as a unit difficult despite the numbers.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

What you’re actually saying makes as much sense to me as the video makes to you.

Carry on.

Well you certainly owned me there. Good one.

 

[adamcu280]

The Outdoor State is no less disparate or less politically polarized than the rest of the electorate, so little chance 'they' could/would reach cohesive support on any significant reforms or objectives. And we are way past the tipping point, incrementals do little more than salve the personal conscience, which seems to be the real driver behind the film.

If this thread is any indication then yeah, there’s no way the Outdoor State is going to agree on anything.

Seems like the “there’s nothing we can do” crowd wants to just let it rip, make no effort, and take what they can while they can. If we’re past the tipping point, is that your suggestion?

 

[Dustin Chromers]

If this thread is any indication then yeah, there’s no way the Outdoor State is going to agree on anything.

Seems like the “there’s nothing we can do” crowd wants to just let it rip, make no effort, and take what they can while they can. If we’re past the tipping point, is that your suggestion?

Yeah except some of us are actually doing it. You know living authentically. Practicing what we believe in. It's when those that talk loudly and it's all talk keep talking that makes no sense.

It would be interesting for you to see my home and have a genuine discussion about the state of the earth etc. I doubt you would respect my views anymore than you do now even after witnessing an actual operation that's completely independent and sustainable. Why? Cause I don't fall lock step into your ideology even though we obviously value many of the same things. The difference is my actions indicate that.

 

[_WW_]

Just put @JimTravers¤£a!!Travers in charge.
Boom! Done.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

Just put @JimTravers¤£a!!Travers in charge.
Boom! Done.

Travers believes in individual freedom. He wouldn't make it.

 

[adamcu280]

Yeah except some of us are actually doing it. You know living authentically. Practicing what we believe in. It's when those that talk loudly and it's all talk keep talking that makes no sense.

It would be interesting for you to see my home and have a genuine discussion about the state of the earth etc. I doubt you would respect my views anymore than you do now even after witnessing an actual operation that's completely independent and sustainable. Why? Cause I don't fall lock step into your ideology even though we obviously value many of the same things. The difference is my actions indicate that.

You do realize that you’re being just as disrespectful to those that aren’t lock step into your ideology as you accuse me of being? For as long as I’ve been reading your posts your tone has been derogatory towards anyone/anything that’s not right up your alley.

I was attempting to have a genuine discussion here. So genuine question: Can you describe what you’ve done to your home?

 

[JS]

This feels like one of the many measuring contests I’ve seen over the years. Maybe we should let AI track our every move for a year and then report back with our carbon footprint.

Or does that not matter? Is it just how much you influence others to mitigate their imprint?

Do you know how many pro snow sport types have changed programs this year due to their local snow not being as good as some other range? I could name some specifically. That’s a lot of carbon to burn. More than me going to my local hill a couple of times, alll of my out of state hunting/fishing, and my work commute.