NFR "The Hypocrite" TGR film about advocacy/fossil fuels/Outdoor State

[Billy]

Looks like you guys are really close to figuring this out.

 

[jact55]

I got it figured out.
There's one solution that I see as viable.
Let's crash our economy and world markets. Consuming is the death of us. Cities aren't viable, especially in the southwest. If it is this dire, here it is.
Go back to picking berries and drinking from rivers.

Alot of days, I'm game. Even though I'd die pretty quick i suppose. Beats the office life, at least in my head.

Anyways, I'm gonna get back to selling traincars and truckloads of precious wood to the ultra rich, it's my donation to this global warming.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

You do realize that you’re being just as disrespectful to those that aren’t lock step into your ideology as you accuse me of being? For as long as I’ve been reading your posts your tone has been derogatory towards anyone/anything that’s not right up your alley.

I was attempting to have a genuine discussion here. So genuine question: Can you describe what you’ve done to your home?

I'll send you a PM. I'm not ultra comfortable revealing so many details about where I live and how I live in total public.

 

[Mossback]

Go back to picking berries and drinking from rivers.

 

[O' Clarkii Stomias]

This feels like one of the many measuring contests I’ve seen over the years. Maybe we should let AI track our every move for a year and then report back with our carbon footprint.

Or does that not matter? Is it just how much you influence others to mitigate their imprint?

Do you know how many pro snow sport types have changed programs this year due to their local snow not being as good as some other range? I could name some specifically. That’s a lot of carbon to burn. More than me going to my local hill a couple of times, alll of my out of state hunting/fishing, and my work commute.

No matter the steps taken to "Greenwash" the snow sports "industry", it has been, and will continue to be detrimental to the environment.

 

[Rob Allen]

Very interesting debate with some compelling (sometimes political stubbornness) presented from both sides. In the end, it really doesn't matter because "WE DON'T HAVE A CHOICE"! No body is forcing (as some keep moaning about) anyone else to become green. Our planet speaks for itself! All you have to do is tune out everything else and listen.

Yes, it's saying we better prepare our society for a warmer climate.

 

[SurfnFish]

If this thread is any indication then yeah, there’s no way the Outdoor State is going to agree on anything.

Seems like the “there’s nothing we can do” crowd wants to just let it rip, make no effort, and take what they can while they can. If we’re past the tipping point, is that your suggestion?

the only thing we can do collectively is vote for whoever/whatever we think will make a positive difference.

the only thing we can do individually is do what we think is right...for some, apparently, that includes painting with a broad, vaguely accusatory brush

 

[Scottybs]

The outdoor community is fractured like the fishing community. I sense it's this way for lots of communities. The diversity of views is not negative but it makes movement as a unit difficult despite the numbers.

Yep too many rock stacking hippies view fly fisherman as worm canister slinging Bud Light drinking rednecks on an ancient bass boat looking like Cousin Eddie. There I think I offended everyone in the outdoor community. #unity

 

[Dustin Chromers]

No matter the steps taken to "Greenwash" the snow sports "industry", it has been, and will continue to be detrimental to the environment.

I have a really hard time demonizing people over their recreation. Especially when it's outdoor recreation. Some people get very little opportunity to interact with the natural world. I could do without the virtue signalling messaging from it's practitioners though.

 

[_WW_]

includes painting with a broad, vaguely accusatory brush

Would that be a used brush?

 

[Mossback]

Would that be a used brush?

One can only hope...

 

[SurfnFish]

One can only hope...

recycled only

 

[Matt Paluch]

See that falls apart too, as all of these “sustainable“ fuels have massive subsidies baked into them, and we’re still back at square one. And again, scale, there is nothing on the table that could ramp up to the massive amounts of oil consumed everyday. Realistic solutions are going to be a lot more challenging than falling into a left or right mindset and realizing there is no absolute victory.

Fossil fuels get massive subsidies. Don't argue against green energy subsidies without also arguing against fossil fuel subsidies.

A complete guide to carbon offsetting

Duncan Clark summarises the offsetting debate in this edited extract from The Rough Guide to Green Living

www.theguardian.com

Carbon offset credits=wealth redistribution…a scam… no thanks… so let me get this straight, now that we‘re opening Pandora’s Box… we pay for a developing nations power source and we then we outsource our jobs to them with more capability. Damn…what a concept. Sorry but a big no. I’ll plant a few new trees in my back yard and keep hauling folks across the globe. You do you. BTW AKL is Aukland, NZ.

You went back 12 years to get that article. Carbon offset policies have changed drastically since then.

 

[Rob Allen]

No, rollers and spray cans are more efficient.

 

[Dustin Chromers]

Fossil fuels get massive subsidies. Don't argue against green energy subsidies without also arguing against fossil fuel subsidies.

You went back 12 years to get that article. Carbon offset policies have changed drastically since then.

I'm equal opportunity critic. I long for a time when an industry must present the taxpayers with a business plan and why they need a subsidy and why it will be a net benefit to those providing the subsidy and the world, country, and individual as a whole. That subsidy should be like a loan. When an economy is developed around said industry it should be paid back to those that funded it in the form of revenue, reduced rates for goods and services, and or economic opportunity and development for an agreed upon time or till said subsidy is repaid. There's no way a multi billion or bigger industry making record profits should be subsidised be it green or black.

 

[Griswald]

this was sort of covered earlier in the thread but the conclusion by many here was “no way I’m going to look past my snap judgment of those hypocritical self-righteous skier types and listen to what they are suggesting.”

Or “new/alternative tech or mindsets are too hard/expensive/not immediately perfect enough” which ignores the fact that current tech was/is not “cheap” and was not fully mature at birth either.

Then there’s the Dustins who totally reject the notion that anyone could think or act as if we’re all in this together, which we are whether we like it or not.

Part of the systemic change is getting people to think outside their selfish little boxes. But we’re discussing this on a fly fishing forum so we all have at least something in common so that’s a start! Of course even this common ground was shot down immediately…

Sorry, but the rightousness here is stinkin up the joint...what are you doing (specifically) to make a bigger difference other than roasting others by wasting pixels?

 

[Matt Paluch]

I'm equal opportunity critic. I long for a time when an industry must present the taxpayers with a business plan and why they need a subsidy and why it will be a net benefit to those providing the subsidy and the world, country, and individual as a whole. That subsidy should be like a loan. When an economy is developed around said industry it should be paid back to those that funded it in the form of revenue, reduced rates for goods and services, and or economic opportunity and development for an agreed upon time or till said subsidy is repaid. There's no way a multi billion or bigger industry making record profits should be subsidised be it green or black.

What you described is exactly what happens. It's generally not reported in the news - because it's boring. There are always public hearings and debate about proposals prior to any money being awarded.

the only thing we can do collectively is vote for whoever/whatever we think will make a positive difference.

the only thing we can do individually is do what we think is right...for some, apparently, that includes painting with a broad, vaguely accusatory brush

I understand where you're going, here. It isn't true that all we can do collectively is vote for whatever we think will make a difference. We can do so much more than that. Sometimes it's even easy to do much more than that. I was fortunate enough to work on two pieces of federal legislation that have resulted in massive investments in conservation and public lands. While my part in it was relatively small, the impact is not. All we really need to do is talk with the people who can make big decisions. The specific program I was promoting now puts $900 million every year into conservation and public land management.

Now - arguing on social media is not very productive. It helps to see what your opposition is using for their arguments, but it doesn't change anything. I'm not sure social media even works very well to educate anyone. It seems to be mildly effective here, so I still put in a little time on the things I understand.

 

[Matt Paluch]

Sorry, but the rightousness here is stinkin up the joint...what are you doing (specifically) to make a bigger difference other than roasting others by wasting pixels?

He talked about systemic change and how to make a difference advocating for that instead of individual level purity tests. Did you watch the video?

 

[O' Clarkii Stomias]

I have a really hard time demonizing people over their recreation. Especially when it's outdoor recreation. Some people get very little opportunity to interact with the natural world. I could do without the virtue signalling messaging from it's practitioners though.

I'm not demonizing snow sports. It would be hypocritical of me considering a lifetime of participation and employment.

 

[Griswald]

Really, at the end of the day, at the risk of being compeletely obvious, it is about time and money. If we walked more, grew more of our own food, shopped locally and didn't need everything "yesterday" the profit centers for capitalism would evaporate. Dustin can be polarizing, no doubt, but I have been on this (and the old board) for about 20 years, and he walks the walk...sure he can piss folks off, but hey, I do too. What I am saying is that we all have a personal opinion which is great, AND an obligation which is GREATER to think about our impact, and what that means to us, our fellow humans and the planet. WE don't have to be vocal about it, or kick someone else's ass, we can simply go about our day quietly and try to help...
Flame on if you need to...