Old Broodstock Rainbows? 2/2/2023

Starman77

Life of the Party
Forum Supporter
On Thursday I tried a popular western WA lake that was recently planted with some large rainbows. Besides me, there were 7 other fishermen out there, so fairly crowded for such a small lake.

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The water was a cold 43 to 44 degrees, but fortunately there wasn't much wind. But, after a couple of hours my feet were like ice cubes.

Fishing seemed to be tough for everyone, but Tom and Howard (in the white prams in the photo above) reported each hooking one of the big rainbows early in the day. I didn't hook a thing in the first 4 hours I fished, but around sunset the fish started to get active. I saw one fish rise within casting distance, so I peppered that area with several casts and finally hooked one of those big rainbows (a 19 incher), and although it had good girth, it was in it's spawning coloration and wasn't very pretty:

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Soon thereafter I had another solid hit, and about an hour later, near dark, I hooked another 19 incher, which looked the same as the one above. I wonder if the lake was planted with old broodstock rainbows?

Rex
 

Divad

Whitefish
Those are Eells Spring Goblins, perfectly normal for them and likely a this year fish. That hatchery seriously needs to be audited.

Last year I made a thread about this here and it’s sad to see it continue. The “jumbo” fish produced at that hatchery are a disgrace.

Seemingly the smaller 1lbers are healthier but likely a product of less time spent in the gulag.
 

Divad

Whitefish
They need to raise fish like Satsop Springs Ponds.......
I was going to say this too! CBTF (Sop Springs) has their fish still plumping up right now but they look incredibly healthy. Last year it got to the point I didn’t even fish the lakes with Eells jumbos.

Heck just attach a 5lb weight to your line, drop it and reel it in because that’s all those fish do too sadly.
 

Stonedfish

Known Grizzler-hater of triploids, humpies & ND
Forum Supporter
There is a big difference between raising them in concrete tanks versus earthen ponds…..like they actually have all their fins.
Those Satsop Springs fish are very nice.
SF
 

Divad

Whitefish
There is a big difference between raising them in concrete tanks versus earthen ponds…..like they actually have all their fins.
Those Satsop Springs fish are very nice.
SF
This was originally my finger pointing but some concrete jungles produce healthier fish in SW WA.

I’m thinking it’s a product of asking too much from a facility. And because the accepted health of fish is what it is at Eells they’ve managed to get away with it.
 

jasmillo

}=)))*>
Forum Supporter
Yet that lake in particular gets pounded, with people driving hours to fish it, especially when big stockers get dumped in it. Why would the hatcheries do anything different.

I’ve caught some really unhealthy looking fish there as well as some solid ones that put up a battle. In the end, they’re all just stockers we could all probably slay by slinging pellet flies if we were so inclined. To me it’s just another option when the weather is crappy, SRC are spawning or tides are less than ideal and salmon aren’t around. I personally am not going to get up in arms about the quality difference between one shitty stocker trout over another.

Every stocker trout I have caught….12 inches to 25 in a western WA lakes, pale in comparison spunk and fight wise to their wild cousins swimming mere miles away in the salt. If a challenge figuring out a fishery and a fish that fights like a real gamefish is what you want, grab some waders and hit a local beach.

One question for those that know this lake; are there any naturally reproducing fish there? There are some small reds visible in the shallow water of the back cove. Trout? Panfish? I don’t often see a ton of life there outside of sporadic hatches so wonder what that lake could actually support if they did not dump stockers in it. The bigger lake nearby seems to have more forage in it. Which is why I’d assume it supports more bass and other warm water species
 

Northern

Seeking SMB
Forum Supporter
Yet that lake in particular gets pounded, with people driving hours to fish it, especially when big stockers get dumped in it. Why would the hatcheries do anything different.

I’ve caught some really unhealthy looking fish there as well as some solid ones that put up a battle. In the end, they’re all just stockers we could all probably slay by slinging pellet flies if we were so inclined. To me it’s just another option when the weather is crappy, SRC are spawning or tides are less than ideal and salmon aren’t around. I personally am not going to get up in arms about the quality difference between one shitty stocker trout over another.

Every stocker trout I have caught….12 inches to 25 in a western WA lakes, pale in comparison spunk and fight wise to their wild cousins swimming mere miles away in the salt. If a challenge figuring out a fishery and a fish that fights like a real gamefish is what you want, grab some waders and hit a local beach.

One question for those that know this lake; are there any naturally reproducing fish there? There are some small reds visible in the shallow water of the back cove. Trout? Panfish? I don’t often see a ton of life there outside of sporadic hatches so wonder what that lake could actually support if they did not dump stockers in it. The bigger lake nearby seems to have more forage in it. Which is why I’d assume it supports more bass and other warm water species
I tend to agree that stockers are stockers, but I was kind of assuming that @Divad 's complaint was regarding the ethics of raising trout in an environment so poor that it produces visibly wounded or unhealthy fish.
I could be wrong
 

jasmillo

}=)))*>
Forum Supporter
If that’s the case then yes, please rant on. If it’s more a complaint about the joy of catching them, well…in the end, they are just stockers. You get what you fish for.

Not that I have anything against targeting stockers. I’ve done so 3-4 times this year already :). If it swims and eats flies, I’ll fish for it.
 

Divad

Whitefish
I tend to agree that stockers are stockers, but I was kind of assuming that @Divad 's complaint was regarding the ethics of raising trout in an environment so poor that it produces visibly wounded or unhealthy fish.
I could be wrong
Indeed this! Thank you, sometimes I struggle to convey the right wording.

That lake is not a put n take lake, but a majority of the stockings from Eells are. More respect should be placed on the food raised and for the health/safety of the lakes stocked. Last years stockings were heavily fungus ridden, it was embarrassing seeing people take those home to eat.
 

Smalma

Life of the Party
I think we are largely looking at the differences between brood stock fish released post spawn and those fish with extended hatchery rearing that are released before maturation.

The Satsop spring releases helps make the case. From WDFW's future brood document those fish are from eggs taken at Eel Springs and reared at Eel springs until they are 2.5 fish/pound at which point they are transferred for a year additional of rearing and released months prior to the time they would spawn. The Eel spring brood fish are reared for say 6 months longer and then spawned. Part of the problem with those brood fish is that most are nearing the end of their lives and have difficult time recovering from the spawn - unable to fight off disease or injuries and have a difficult time recovering body condition.

Curt
 

jasmillo

}=)))*>
Forum Supporter
Indeed this! Thank you, sometimes I struggle to convey the right wording.

That lake is not a put n take lake, but a majority of the stockings from Eells are. More respect should be placed on the food raised and for the health/safety of the lakes stocked. Last years stockings were heavily fungus ridden, it was embarrassing seeing people take those home to eat.

I went back and read your post from last year and understand what you are saying. My experience was a bit different with those jumbos from that hatchery. I did catch a couple of those colored up ones but caught more that seemed in solid condition (examples attached though the nose of that one in the net is interesting!). I would not call them athletic fish though. Definitely couch potato rainbows, ha. Also, the cutties they stock tend to be colored up and a bit snakey and I did see some of those blotchey white walkers you speak of swimming under my tube a number of times.

@Smalma answered the other question I had assumed all the jumbos hatcheries plant are broodstock. Sounds like that is not the case.

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DCDE59AD-E0B7-4915-97F1-596ABA659D9D.jpeg
 

Stonedfish

Known Grizzler-hater of triploids, humpies & ND
Forum Supporter
Yet that lake in particular gets pounded, with people driving hours to fish it, especially when big stockers get dumped in it. Why would the hatcheries do anything different.

I’ve caught some really unhealthy looking fish there as well as some solid ones that put up a battle. In the end, they’re all just stockers we could all probably slay by slinging pellet flies if we were so inclined. To me it’s just another option when the weather is crappy, SRC are spawning or tides are less than ideal and salmon aren’t around. I personally am not going to get up in arms about the quality difference between one shitty stocker trout over another.

Every stocker trout I have caught….12 inches to 25 in a western WA lakes, pale in comparison spunk and fight wise to their wild cousins swimming mere miles away in the salt. If a challenge figuring out a fishery and a fish that fights like a real gamefish is what you want, grab some waders and hit a local beach.

One question for those that know this lake; are there any naturally reproducing fish there? There are some small reds visible in the shallow water of the back cove. Trout? Panfish? I don’t often see a ton of life there outside of sporadic hatches so wonder what that lake could actually support if they did not dump stockers in it. The bigger lake nearby seems to have more forage in it. Which is why I’d assume it supports more bass and other warm water species

I’ve never been a fan of the jumbo plantings except in the case of fish like those out of the Satsop Spring program.
Not a fan of the triploid plants either, which are a waste of money in my opinion.
Research some lakes that get fry plants.
The fry that survive to carryover size fight way better than the fish that are planted as stocker or jumbo size. Again, just my opinion. You may need to travel further though. 😉
SF
 
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Divad

Whitefish
I think we are largely looking at the differences between brood stock fish released post spawn and those fish with extended hatchery rearing that are released before maturation.

The Satsop spring releases helps make the case. From WDFW's future brood document those fish are from eggs taken at Eel Springs and reared at Eel springs until they are 2.5 fish/pound at which point they are transferred for a year additional of rearing and released months prior to the time they would spawn. The Eel spring brood fish are reared for say 6 months longer and then spawned. Part of the problem with those brood fish is that most are nearing the end of their lives and have difficult time recovering from the spawn - unable to fight off disease or injuries and have a difficult time recovering body condition.

Curt
Excuse me if this is a dumb question. If Sop Springs is rearing broods 6 months longer and spawning, why do they look healthier?

The state labels brooders and the longer reared fish all in the “jumbo” category. But anecdotally, it seems some lakes get more of the broods proportionally (assuming these are the fungus laden fish). Munn last April was filled with the fungus fish. Along with one other Mason county lake that made it seem they got a brunt of the brooders.

Is there a solution that leads to less broods being used as “jumbo” plants while still allowing the quantity of “jumbo” plants relatively unchanged? Assuming brooders are the culprit.

Edit: Also Thank you Curt for clarifying these two groups.
 
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jasmillo

}=)))*>
Forum Supporter
I’ve never been a fan of the jumbo plantings except in the case of fish like though out of the Satsop Spring program.
Not a fan of the triploid plants either, which are a waste of money in my opinion.
Research some lakes that get fry plants.
The fry that survive to carryover size fight way better than the fish that are planted as stocker or jumbo size. Again, just my opinion. You may need to travel further though. 😉
SF

I can understand why. You probably know why I have fished this lake in particular though. Makes for an easy salt/lake combo day!
 

Peatbog

Smolt
I’ve never been a fan of the jumbo plantings except in the case of fish like those out of the Satsop Spring program.
Not a fan of the triploid plants either, which are a waste of money in my opinion.
Research some lakes that get fry plants.
The fry that survive to carryover size fight way better than the fish that are planted as stocker or jumbo size. Again, just my opinion. You may need to travel further though. 😉
SF
Sad thing is that lake and others around it could be a treasured preasious wild cutthroat fisheries if it were not for them damn aquarium fish and DNR culverts.
 
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