Help!! I'm hinge- ing

[wanderingrichard]

So, on this trip to work on our Penna. property, I brought along an 8 ft 6 in 5 wt with a WF floater for line.
I'm using a commercial one part tapered trout leader and 2 ft of 5lb tippet.

This is not an expensive set up. It's budget, but I can make it work.

But, my casting is killing me. Specifically, when I try to lay out the cast, I'm getting a massive hinge effect at the leader / tippet junction and my offerings are just plopping into the water. So, I'm getting a bit frustrated.

Any suggestions to cure this ?

 

[Tom Butler]

So, on this trip to work on our Penna. property, I brought along an 8 ft 6 in 5 wt with a WF floater for line.
I'm using a commercial one part tapered trout leader and 2 ft of 5lb tippet.

This is not an expensive set up. It's budget, but I can make it work.

But, my casting is killing me. Specifically, when I try to lay out the cast, I'm getting a massive hinge effect at the leader / tippet junction and my offerings are just plopping into the water. So, I'm getting a bit frustrated.

Any suggestions to cure this ?

I find the tippet on commercial tapered leaders too limp and wimpy and they don't lay out well for me either. Try this, find the end of the taper where it's just bigger than your tippet. I use a micrometer when home. Should be about 4.5-5' from the perfection loop. Cut there and tie in a small ring. Then add your tippet. I use this a lot, and I'll often splice in some sighter material just above the ring. Just double surgeons if you don't have a ring.

 

[wanderingrichard]

this doesn't have a ring or a loop. it's department store grade. it's about 8-9 feet long. And the tippet was added by me to the leader because the fly end of the leader is a lot thicker than I think it should be for the flies I'm using which are size 10's to 14's.

If I were to guess, I'd say it's around 15 lb test diameter.
Could it be that the leader to tippet step down is too big? (15lb down to 5 lb ? )

 

[Tom Butler]

If I were to guess, I'd say it's around 15 lb test diameter.
Could it be that the leader to tippet step down is too big? (15lb down to 5 lb ? )

That sounds like a place where your energy transfer could be getting messed up. Got any 10 or 8# Ultragreen around to build a taper?

 

[krusty]

Tippet rings really facilitate experimenting your way out of such issues (along with not constantly altering and chewing up the leader butt with a bunch of knot changes). It's like solving a one variable equation (changing out tippet) rather than two variables changing with each iteration.

 

[Jake Watrous]

Here’s a leader formula I like for dries. No hinging, and it creates just the right amount of slack as it lays out.

20” 15lb Maxima chameleon

20” 12lb Maxima chameleon

8-10” (more = more slack but less “power”) 8lb Maxima chameleon

8-10” (more = more slack but less “power”) 8lb Gold Stren

12” 2x nylon (not fluoro) tippet

12” 3x nylon (not fluoro) tippet

12-14” (more = more slack but less “power”) 4x nylon (not fluoro) tippet

18-48” (fly, wind, and conditions dependent) 4x/5x/6x nylon (not fluoro) tippet.

 

[wanderingrichard]

Wow, Jake, I dunno about a 14 foot leader on an 8 1/2 foot rod.

But, I CAN use the smaller dimensions to tailor a new leader.

Tom, no ultragreen that I can find on hand. From what I've seen around here, I don't think they know what it is. But I can look for some stiff mono in those weight classes.

Guys, I'm in PODUNK here. The nearest true tackle shop is 25 miles away right now and while The Blue Heron has fly fishing items, I think tippet rings are out of play. As in, I don't recall seeing them when I was there

Honest, as we talk this out, yeah, I think the huge step down is the problem. It would make sense as the cause.

Soooo, looks like I get to go old school like I was taught decades ago and knot together a newer leader.

 

[Jake Watrous]

Wow, Jake, I dunno about a 14 foot leader on an 8 1/2 foot rod.

But, I CAN use the smaller dimensions to tailor a new leader.

Tom, no ultragreen that I can find on hand. From what I've seen around here, I don't think they know what it is. But I can look for some stiff mono in those weight classes.

Guys, I'm in PODUNK here. The nearest true tackle shop is 25 miles away right now and while The Blue Heron has fly fishing items, I think tippet rings are out of play. As in, I don't recall seeing them when I was there

Honest, as we talk this out, yeah, I think the huge step down is the problem. It would make sense as the cause.

Soooo, looks like I get to go old school like I was taught decades ago and knot together a newer leader.

Dude, it casts fine on my 7’6” 3wt. But everyone’s tastes vary.

EDIT: 7’ 3wt. My 11 yo was careless with his cello case when loading the car yesterday.

 

[jaredoconnor]

Just buy a different commercial leader, one X size higher than the tippet you plan to tie on.

If you’re going to buy materials and start tying your own, below is what I use. Vary the segment lengths to taste.

- 20lb Chameleon
- 15lb Chameleon
- 12lb Chameleon
- 10lb Ultragreen
- 0x Powerflex
- 2x Powerflex
- Tippet ring
- 3-5x Powerflex

The stiffness of Chameleon allows you to make a light leader that transfers power well. Ultragreen is softer than Chameleon and provides a good transition. Everything below 10lb should be Powerflex or similar; all Maxima lines are weak, relative to diameter, and lot of 3x (0.008in) fly shop nylon will be stronger than 8lb (0.010in) Maxima. Terminating with 2x, at the tippet ring, is important; it allows you to run 3-5x tippet, on the same base leader, as conditions change. For example, I use 3x for hoppers and 5x for BWOs, but all I have to change is the tippet.

Below is a good dry fly leader formula.

- 30in 20lb Chameleon
- 22in 15lb Chameleon
- 16in 12lb Chameleon
- 12in 10lb Ultragreen
- 10in 0x Powerflex
- 10in 2x Powerflex
- Tippet ring
- 3-5ft 3-5x Powerflex

Below is a good indicator nymphing leader formula.

- 12in 20lb Chameleon
- 10in 15lb Chameleon
- 8in 12lb Chameleon
- 6in 10lb Ultragreen
- 4in 0x Powerflex
- 4in 2x Powerflex
- Tippet ring
- 2-4ft 3-5x Powerflex

 

[wanderingrichard]

Again, thanks guys. Will update soon as I have it worked out.

 

[krusty]

Pretty much every online flyfishing supply entity has tippet rings. Cheap and even more importantly, allow drastically increased lifespans for butt sections of expensive tapered leaders.

 

[Wadin' Boot]

Dude, it casts fine on my 7’6” 3wt. But everyone’s tastes vary.

EDIT: 7’ 3wt. My 11 yo was careless with his cello case when loading the car yesterday.

Ohh yeah, been there, I have a bunch of 9 foot 6 rods that are 9 foot neat.....Also 11 year old with Cello case breaks your rod on loading the car.... at least you didn't have him loading the double bass, in which case you might have a fancy set of tomato stakes.

As for the original poster, who I thought was concerned about the Dating APP Hinge not working out.....well, stakes are apparently very different than the clickbait title suggests....

Tying your own leaders will save you plenty of money and time. Plus, it's in the spirit of hypothesis testing, which is the true joy for fly fishing, figuring out what you like and what works etc. Typically a hinge effect happens when too stiff leader joins way more supple tippet AND is further worsened by too-heavy fly for that supple tippet that- in turn- may be longer than needed.

BUT.....The best way to solve this?

Give away your dries and fish streamers on a heavier line. With three separate sections- sorta heavy, medium, sorta light

 

[krusty]

Again, thanks guys. Will update soon as I have it worked out.

Indeed! Please let us know when you've become unhinged!

 

[wetline dave]

I resolved this issue switching to a 2X tapered leader adding no more than 18 inches of 3X tippet. A size 10 fly generally needs the heavier line to turn over correctly. Many flies down to 14 will except a 3X leader. If you go down to 4X then cut back the3X to about 14 inches and add 12 inches of 4X.

Dave

 

[skyriver]

All in good fun...


On a serious note, or rather on a serious IMO... don't use tippet rings for dry flies. It's more blasphemous than the big bobber I use for mids.

Ok, on another serious IMO...learn how to tie a surgeon's and a blood knot. You don't need a tool or another piece of gear for either. If you practice you can tie them just as fast, or faster, than 2 clinch knots to a tippet ring. And a good blood knot is the best straight-line knot on the planet. A clinch knot on a ring will eventually wear and also eventually turn side ways. Again, just poking fun and my humble old opinion. Cheers!

 

[wanderingrichard]

Ok, looks like trimming the leader back a bit and moving to an 8lb tippet has done the trick.
Thanks again everyone.

 

[wanderingrichard]

Btw, has anyone ever used the Fulling Mills sight indicator tippet material ?

 

[Tom Butler]

Btw, has anyone ever used the Fulling Mills sight indicator tippet material ?

I've used SA, Orvis and Rio but not the FM. Usually I have a foot to 18" between the butt section and ring where I attach the tippett. What's the specific question, interest?

 

[dirty dog]

All the above is good info.
What I have noticed is that even experienced casters have the tendence to want to throw the cast when laying out the fly.
What do I mean by throwing the last cast.
Do ya remember how to cast a spin rod or bait casting rod? That is throwing the lure or bait.
Well that is what I have seen many fly casters do on the finial cast.
That puts your line ahead of your leader or pile up the leader.
What I try to do when I want to lay a dry fly lightly on the water.
I stop my fly in mid air just like I was going to faults cast and let it settle to the water.
It sure would be easier to show ya than explain in the screen.

 

[jaredoconnor]

Btw, has anyone ever used the Fulling Mills sight indicator tippet material ?

Sighter tippet is for euro nymphing. I don’t think you want that.