Agree, that’s a really beautiful shot.
Got any bird pics?
- Thread starter Wadin' Boot
- Start date
Gyrfalcon22
Life of the Party
Thanks guys. Nature gets all the credit, of course. A little Sun would really turn up the iridescent green speculums on the wings !
Gyrfalcon22
Life of the Party
Pulling photos until I see what this Facebook connection to this site is all about. Looks like if someone adds this topic once via Facebook, it brings easy access to Facebook users who can drag and take the photos easily. To me that is a little too easy. Maybe they need to close outside people from seeing our content unless they are members?
Again, will wait and walk this through before I post more.
Again, will wait and walk this through before I post more.
We're only posting articles to facebook. There's no danger of any of us posting anyone's content without their knowledge over there. The only "facebook types" who would likely stumble on this thread would be ones who sign up for the site after reading one of the articles.
It's much more likely that someone would find this thread and photos via a search engine like Google, Yahoo, Bing, etc.
Remember, we're not Facebook fans. We're only doing what we're doing to hopefully get another avenue out there for new members to find us.
The only way to keep photos away from people who might use them is to keep them off the internet. Google images search engine will let far more people grab your images off a website than anyone sharing one of our articles to a Facebook group. Any image on the internet can be stolen in seconds. Facebook users can't steal them any more or less easily than anyone else. Remember, anyone can share anything to Facebook/Twitter/etc. If it is on the internet, there isn't really a way to stop that. Just like there isn't really a way to stop people from sharing links here on PNWFF to other websites.
We cannot close this site to people who aren't registered or it will wither and die. Nobody wants to see the same 2 dozen people posting the same stupid arguments forever. Web communities like PNWFF have to have a steady flow of new folks to replace those who wander off to new hobbies, get bored with the internet, or sadly, pass onto the next life. A closed door doesn't welcome anyone.
Every one of us has to decide if we are willing to take the risk that our images will be "stolen" when we post them on the internet. But don't get sucked into misunderstanding, nowhere on the internet is completely safe from that risk. You just have to decide if the benefit is worth the risk for you. I would highly encourage everyone to watermark their images if they are worried about misuse. That is a far more useful way of protecting them than worrying about someone sharing a Bull Trout article on Facebook.
I don't want to de-rail this thread anymore than we have already, but want to end with this (I will copy this to the FB thread, too)
We want everyone to trust that we know what we are doing, and got there through years of experience with a combination of online forum running (elsewhere), marketing, social media/websites, and fly fishing itself. We gained these experiences both professionally, and through hobbies. All the decisions we make are to make the forum better and more enjoyable for our current members, as well as making it attractive to new potential members. We also are exploring ways to let people outside our community here know that we're here, and there are really only a few good ways to do that. Unfortunately, Facebook is one of them.
Anything we do on FB will not subtract ANYTHING from here. All we are doing is posting links of things we think might get new eyeballs on us. Some of those eyeballs will stick around, many won't. But that's just how marketing works. But it is absolutely essential that we find effective ways to get these new eyeballs, or this forum won't last long term. In this particular case, all we're doing is posting the links on FB, and hoping our members that are also on Facebook share them with their other fishing friends there.
We want everyone to trust that we know what we are doing, and got there through years of experience with a combination of online forum running (elsewhere), marketing, social media/websites, and fly fishing itself. We gained these experiences both professionally, and through hobbies. All the decisions we make are to make the forum better and more enjoyable for our current members, as well as making it attractive to new potential members. We also are exploring ways to let people outside our community here know that we're here, and there are really only a few good ways to do that. Unfortunately, Facebook is one of them.
Anything we do on FB will not subtract ANYTHING from here. All we are doing is posting links of things we think might get new eyeballs on us. Some of those eyeballs will stick around, many won't. But that's just how marketing works. But it is absolutely essential that we find effective ways to get these new eyeballs, or this forum won't last long term. In this particular case, all we're doing is posting the links on FB, and hoping our members that are also on Facebook share them with their other fishing friends there.
Gyrfalcon22
Life of the Party
@Evan B @Josh Really appreciate the detailed response and information. That helps a lot. Watermarking is a smart move and do understand that when anything is put on the net, it is out in the web world forever. No taking it back. I already hold back on sharing photographs online anywhere that I consider not worth the risk of seeing on places such as Google images.
Thanks again for the clarification.
Thanks again for the clarification.
Jim F.
Still a Genuine Montana Fossil
As stated above, thank you both for the responses and explanations. That being said, I don't view raising a potential concern regarding the referenced change to be "derailing" the thread.
I don't think Evan was crapping on anyone for bringing the topic up. More just pointing out that people visit this thread for bird photos, and anyone looking for the site's stance on protecting images isn't going t be looking here in the future.
We're happy to talk about this stuff, it's important. But probably a better convo to have in a standalone thread somewhere so it can be found in the future.
We were able to use 1000s of freely available images of Osprey catching fish to write a science paper on it:
Google images was one of our main sources. Not saying that makes anyone any more comfortable about pushing images onto the net, but rather sometimes good things can come out of peoples benevolent sharing.
We contacted all the photographers for study permission that had put photos up on facebook, but the ones who we used through google images, or Bing images or whatever we could not because there was often no contact details. Regardless, of the people contacted 99% were fine with us using their pic. The pics above were from a photographer who gave free use, and when I gave some talks about this later, a second photographer was also fine with using for free.
This paper made zero money for any of us, we paid for no-one for their photo data, in fact, when it comes to publishing fees, time etc we took, as usual, a big loss on it. But man was it fun. 90% of my published research has been with zero funding, the rest, it's industry sponsored and we are an enrolling site and I am not acting as first or last author. I am always on the lookout to get good data quickly and efficiently, the internet has been a huge boon for that.
The other thing I have noted on some of the Facebook bird groups is when a photo is ripped off and used by others, the outing of the "photographer" who stole the work is pretty brutal. That and man, some of the facebook birding group members can be super petty and righteous in a way that can be a huge turnoff.
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We were able to use 1000s of freely available images of Osprey catching fish to write a science paper on it:
Google images was one of our main sources. Not saying that makes anyone any more comfortable about pushing images onto the net, but rather sometimes good things can come out of peoples benevolent sharing.
We contacted all the photographers for study permission that had put photos up on facebook, but the ones who we used through google images, or Bing images or whatever we could not because there was often no contact details. Regardless, of the people contacted 99% were fine with us using their pic. The pics above were from a photographer who gave free use, and when I gave some talks about this later, a second photographer was also fine with using for free.
This paper made zero money for any of us, we paid for no-one for their photo data, in fact, when it comes to publishing fees, time etc we took, as usual, a big loss on it. But man was it fun. 90% of my published research has been with zero funding, the rest, it's industry sponsored and we are an enrolling site and I am not acting as first or last author. I am always on the lookout to get good data quickly and efficiently, the internet has been a huge boon for that.
The other thing I have noted on some of the Facebook bird groups is when a photo is ripped off and used by others, the outing of the "photographer" who stole the work is pretty brutal. That and man, some of the facebook birding group members can be super petty and righteous in a way that can be a huge turnoff.
So not as many "goofy footers"; they are called that for a reason...
Cheers
Gyrfalcon22
Life of the Party
Good points (and paper!) @Wadin' Boot . Am with you 100%. I also have a problem with people getting super protective over non-unique, general subject photographs that took 1/500th of a second to take, often faster. Some on Facebook slap giant signatures on their photos as if they'd sculpted the creature from marble themselves, ala Michelangelo, or created the creature in a lab with one single DNA strand. Sort of crazy !We were able to use 1000s of freely available images of Osprey catching fish to write a science paper on it:
Google images was one of our main sources. Not saying that makes anyone any more comfortable about pushing images onto the net, but rather sometimes good things can come out of peoples benevolent sharing.
We contacted all the photographers for study permission that had put photos up on facebook, but the ones who we used through google images, or Bing images or whatever we could not because there was often no contact details. Regardless, of the people contacted 99% were fine with us using their pic. The pics above were from a photographer who gave free use, and when I gave some talks about this later, a second photographer was also fine with using for free.
This paper made zero money for any of us, we paid for no-one for their photo data, in fact, when it comes to publishing fees, time etc we took, as usual, a big loss on it. But man was it fun. 90% of my published research has been with zero funding, the rest, it's industry sponsored and we are an enrolling site and I am not acting as first or last author. I am always on the lookout to get good data quickly and efficiently, the internet has been a huge boon for that.
The other thing I have noted on some of the Facebook bird groups is when a photo is ripped off and used by others, the outing of the "photographer" who stole the work is pretty brutal. That and man, some of the facebook birding group members can be super petty and righteous in a way that can be a huge turnoff.
I'll just add to my comments a couple days back with the Facebook announcement and why my first reaction.
It is great that many share images on the web for free usage. I have as well when asked before. I have no problem understanding that things sent onto the general web are free and up for grabs. I guess we get lulled into thinking this place is small and we are sharing with friends on here. That's why some people think that dropping info on fishing spots is no biggie, they do not understand the reach of online search engines. And, as we saw with the last site's demise/sell off, our content is worth money. And, we have no say when and how it is used. We even got reprimanded for not being happy about our content being sold off without a goodbye even.... So, things are a bit fresh in the betrayal department I suppose and Facebook is not a friendly name to most of us.
Back to photos, my work at times leads things to a little different personal reason to keep things in personal control. I sell art-including scientific illustration, usually using references of my own photography. Sometimes I am lazy and do a direct drawing or painting from a photo I have taken. So, I keep the best offline or stuff I will personally need to myself and not make it easy for the next guy drawing with my hard earned references.
We just have to figure anything we do online is out in the open to someone. Photos, private messages, passwords. You'd hope for better privacy and control, but talk to anyone who is in a band now about protecting their music..
And, to be a bit of a smart ass. Here is a photograph (with some doctoring and cropping) I took recently that would have liked to share whole, but I may need later.
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I have been fortunate to see two peregrine kills. One on Cano in Costa Rica, one in the Kent valley. A few Merlin kills too.
Nice pics!
Nice pics!
Gyrfalcon22
Life of the Party
I see quite a few attempts, and prey being eaten on a perch, but rarely see the successful kill in action. Often a blur, as you know !
It is a blur! On a well known eastside lake. Heard the stoop before I saw the bird, an unmistakable sound.
Gyrfalcon22
Life of the Party
Yes! I have been out and about here on our land or looking at perched eagles when suddenly you hear something out of nowhere that is like a loud shearing of the wind, like a roaring "sshhooowishhhhhhhhh" where you can really hear their wings biting into the wind with a high g-force banking. Not quiet, it is almost violent.
One of the coolest sounds that is not expected, but not a surprise with such a super-athletic, unreal fast creature.
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Woah, nice shot there, the amount of time and tens of thousands of attempts trying to get a crisp in-flight interesting shot on a rarer bird- that's gorgeous work!
