Cracking sink tips

[coastalcutty]

This first sink tip is made from bulk Rio In touch, T11. I bought it on eBay, used only one day and it's cracking.

The second picture is also Rio t11 that I bought from a reputable fly shop. It was in a non standard retail package, so I believe it was also made from bulk. This second one I cut off the welded loop and tied my own simple loop. Is this even going to hold? Not sure... I used this one considerably more, but probably only 10 days total

What is causing this? I for sure get hung up more than I'd like, but I thought it would affect the leader itself, not the tip. But both did break at the business end, not the Skagit head end.

Also, what's in the center of these? Are they safe to use cracked or will it end up severing completely?

*Edited to say t11 instead of t8

 

[Jake Watrous]

Theories based on my limited experience:

1. It was made by Rio.

2. Could be cracking the whip on your forward cast by not waiting for it to almost straighten out on your back cast.

I would:

1. Try pausing a little longer before coming forward. If that doesn't work...

2. Buy non-Rio lines.

 

[Pink Nighty]

My lines do that because I'm lazy and leave my rod strong up and broken in half. Not sure that's your cause, but it's what does it to mine.

 

[coastalcutty]

Theories based on my limited experience:

1. It was made by Rio.

2. Could be cracking the whip on your forward cast by not waiting for it to almost straighten out on your back cast.

I would:

1. Try pausing a little longer before coming forward. If that doesn't work...

2. Buy non-Rio lines.

The whip even on a spey cast? I don't hear it, although I have in the beginning, and my fly promptly disappeared

Other recommendations for sink tip brands?

 

[coastalcutty]

My lines do that because I'm lazy and leave my rod strong up and broken in half. Not sure that's your cause, but it's what does it to mine.

I'm guilty of that from time to time, but to crack on day 1, that couldn't be the cause of this second occurrence.

 

[Divad]

Blue t8? That’s weird, the bulk t8 I use is black and never had it crack. Give Mike a call at Lost Creek Fly Shop and see if he can ship you some.

Also here is a cleaner, guide happy loop method:
https://pnwflyfishing.com/forum/ind...p-in-fly-line-polyleader-or-versileader.6045/

 

[coastalcutty]

Blue t8? That’s weird, the bulk t8 I use is black and never had it crack. Give Mike a call at Lost Creek Fly Shop and see if he can ship you some.

Also here is a cleaner, guide happy loop method:
https://pnwflyfishing.com/forum/ind...p-in-fly-line-polyleader-or-versileader.6045/

Damn it, I'm tired. It's t11... The t8 I have though is burgundy, same brand

 

[Jake Watrous]

The whip even on a spey cast? I don't hear it, although I have in the beginning, and my fly promptly disappeared

Other recommendations for sink tip brands?

Right, my bad--forgot where I was replying for a moment. Spey casting I've done it by accelerating too fast, too aggressively, putting too much power in a cast. Or underlining a rod.

I like what SA and Airflo have been putting out for tips. For customization, Airflo’s Custom T-Tips is good stuff.

Edit: T-Tips. Didn’t remember the name.

 

[flybill]

I don't think it's from overpowering a cast, I've taught and fished with spey rods for over 10 years and not had problems with cracking like that.

Are you hitting the ground on your backcast? That could cause a problem, but after one use that seems unlikely, unless your backcast is hitting rocks or something that would damage any fly line or tip. How long were you fishing the day you started using them. How many hours?

The sinktip material (coating) may have some defect, is old, or was exposed to sunltight for a long time. Or was nicked in some way while it was being made or spooled. Most of my sinktips are old Rio tips and stored in my sling pack or on the reel for extended times. This does remind me to check my tips and replace any that are worn significantly.

As long as the core is strong, I would think it woudl be okay to use. I would coat the crack with some epoxy, but I would also replace the tips. Contact Rio or where you bought them.

Also that loop will work, but will catch on the tip of the rod or guides if you're reeling in really close. Or even just reeling the line at the end of the day.

Just use a nail knot to tie the leader directly to the sinktip or fly line.

Use a braided loop connector:



Tie some strong tippet or just Maxima onto the tip with a nail knot and then a loop with a double surgeon's knot or perfection loop.

Do a whipped knot to make the loop out of the tip material.

A shop will do these for you, I did when I worked at Orvis for many years. There are other ways and here is a link to the knots.

Best Fly Fishing Knots You Should Know - Fly Fisherman

Whether you're a beginner or a pro, learn these essential eight knots to increase your fly fishing success before hitting the water.

www.flyfisherman.com

Good luck!

 

[O' Clarkii Stomias]

The Rio connect core T material comes with a braided GSP core. It could be that the loops you are using are pulling on the on the coating vs the core. The PVC coating stretches a lot, where the GSP doesn't stretch at all.
You might try exposing the core by soaking a few inches of the tip in acetone, and stripping the coating off with your thumb nail. Then tie an overhand loop in the core similar to what you did in your pics, but without the coating. The tip will cast/fish just fine like that. If you want a cleaner look, coat the loop and knot with aquaseal.
What size tippet are you using? I've found over the years that anything more than 15 lb puts a lot of strain on the rest of my tackle when I have to break my fly off. I don't spend a lot of time and materials on flies I tie to use when dredging.
I will say I really like the zero stretch Rio tips and Skagit heads. Those combined with fluro tippet and GSP running line (Monic) give instantaneous feedback, and very solid hooksets.

 

[SurfnFish]

Picked up a spool of 50# Gudebrod years back, few mins to make a slip-on braided loop, secure it with a couple of Maxima nail knots dabbed with UV, bulletproof. On my 'stealth' rods I color the loops with a med grey marker pen. Have caught a fair share of husky Kings on these loops, never a problem.

 

[Mike Bacca]

I have had 2 RIO lines fail. One broke and the other cracked. The first one was replaced by RIO. When the replacement line cracked. I now refuse to buy any RIO product. I will stick to SA and Airflo lines.

 

[clarkman]

yikes, that's some serious cracking!

As a few have mentioned, don't go with Rio.

Honestly though, I've never had an issue with Rio MOW tips (only Rio product that I haven't had issues with), but I really really like Airflo T material in bulk because it's so damn easy to weld your own loops and the stuff lasts forever.

 

[the_grube]

well I must be doing everything wrong. All my tips with sink rates of s6 or greater crack eventually, SA, Rio, Airflo (their FLO tips cracked in the first season on me), Guideline, polyleaders, versileaders, t-whatever. I do keep my rod strung up and folded in half, but I take the tension off the line at the tip-top.

 

[coastalcutty]

I don't think it's from overpowering a cast, I've taught and fished with spey rods for over 10 years and not had problems with cracking like that.

Are you hitting the ground on your backcast? That could cause a problem, but after one use that seems unlikely, unless your backcast is hitting rocks or something that would damage any fly line or tip. How long were you fishing the day you started using them. How many hours?

As long as the core is strong, I would think it woudl be okay to use. I would coat the crack with some epoxy, but I would also replace the tips. Contact Rio or where you bought them.

Also that loop will work, but will catch on the tip of the rod or guides if you're reeling in really close. Or even just reeling the line at the end of the day.

I am definitely hitting the ground on my D loop sometimes, as well as being hung up in a tree or bush on the bank here or there. I am still quite new to spey casting. Any mistake that can be made, I am still making them, with each outting getting a bit better (I think). I can see that being pretty punishing on a small piece of line.

I'll look into some of the methods you pointed to for loops. And luckily that big knot is at the fly end, so only about 3 feet from the fly and won't be an issue when fighting a fish. But will be annoying at other times, I agree.

 

[coastalcutty]

The Rio connect core T material comes with a braided GSP core. It could be that the loops you are using are pulling on the on the coating vs the core. The PVC coating stretches a lot, where the GSP doesn't stretch at all.
You might try exposing the core by soaking a few inches of the tip in acetone, and stripping the coating off with your thumb nail. Then tie an overhand loop in the core similar to what you did in your pics, but without the coating. The tip will cast/fish just fine like that. If you want a cleaner look, coat the loop and knot with aquaseal.
What size tippet are you using? I've found over the years that anything more than 15 lb puts a lot of strain on the rest of my tackle when I have to break my fly off. I don't spend a lot of time and materials on flies I tie to use when dredging.
I will say I really like the zero stretch Rio tips and Skagit heads. Those combined with fluro tippet and GSP running line (Monic) give instantaneous feedback, and very solid hooksets.

Interesting idea with the acetone. I'll give that a thought. I was using 12# fluro for my leaders but I didn't like how it was getting nicked up, so I switched to 13# maxima which I like a lot better. It seems more durable even though fluro is supposed to be more abrasion resistant.

 

[coastalcutty]

yikes, that's some serious cracking!

As a few have mentioned, don't go with Rio.

Honestly though, I've never had an issue with Rio MOW tips (only Rio product that I haven't had issues with), but I really really like Airflo T material in bulk because it's so damn easy to weld your own loops and the stuff lasts forever.

I saw someone selling on ebay for $.99/foot. Same price I paid for the Rio stuff, not bad...

 

[O' Clarkii Stomias]

Not defending Rio here. I will say in 45+ years of fishing and a dozen + years of guiding, I have had issues with everything from Airflo - Wulff. At various times I would have said they all suck. If I would have sworn off a particular brand because of on issue, I would have nothing left to fish with. As mentioned before, the Rio T stuff in bulk is very convenient. I took have never had an issue with the 5 x 5 MOWs or iMOWs I fish with, or any Rio 10' or 15' replacement tips.
YMMV

 

[O' Clarkii Stomias]

Interesting idea with the acetone. I'll give that a thought. I was using 12# fluro for my leaders but I didn't like how it was getting nicked up, so I switched to 13# maxima which I like a lot better. It seems more durable even though fluro is supposed to be more abrasion resistant.

Some of the hardcore fishermen I know have given up on welding loops, braided loops, etc, and are just stripping the coating off and tying loops in the core at all line junctions. Leader to line, tip to head, head to running line, etc. Pretty simple and bomb proof if you think about it, and it negates the differences in stretch between the core and the coating.

 

[clarkman]

Some of the hardcore fishermen I know have given up on welding loops, braided loops, etc, and are just stripping the coating off and tying loops in the core at all line junctions. Leader to line, tip to head, head to running line, etc. Pretty simple and bomb proof if you think about it, and it negates the differences in stretch between the core and the coating.

totally get that sentiment. So far (knock on wood), I have never had an issue with my welded loops with Airflo (or splicing together for that matter---experimentation---don't ask. ), which I can't say for any other brand I've tried to weld on my own (thanks to the great Google machine). SA is about 50% and Rio is right at 0% for me and welding it on my own.