Bladderless Float Tube?

[Brian Miller]

I want to replace a float tube with an internal PVC bladder that I've had problems with leaking at the valve. Cleaning the valve & bladder inner-outer surfaces has not helped. The mfg is not responding to questions about (in-warranty or even purchase) of a bladder and/or valve.

I've had a Watermaster for 10+years and never had a problem with the valves or leaks so I believe a bladderless design is simple, durable, and more reliable.
Am I wrong? Why?
Weight overall size and portability matter; an unloaded weight of 15 lbs or less is preferred. I don't think I need oars.
Two bladderless designs that I can find are the Super Cat and the Caddis Platinum Elite.
Are there others?
Has anyone seen, tried, or have either, or better yet all of those? (I know there are Super Cat owners on the board)
Pros & Cons? (interested in knowing the following)
I am just short of 5'10", <190lbs
Do you sit above, awash, or in the water?
The Caddis horizontal bar (and apparently Customer Support ) seems to be an issue for some of its owners with not stabilizing the bow width... thoughts?
Neither the Super Cat nor the Caddis appear to have any real usable storage behind the seat. Do you wish you had some-more?
Is there a recommended bag for carrying and storing it? (Super Cat no longer offers one).

Other thoughts?

 

[Freestone]

I want to replace a float tube with an internal PVC bladder that I've had problems with leaking at the valve. Cleaning the valve & bladder inner-outer surfaces has not helped. The mfg is not responding to questions about (in-warranty or even purchase) of a bladder and/or valve.

I've had a Watermaster for 10+years and never had a problem with the valves or leaks so I believe a bladderless design is simple, durable, and more reliable.
Am I wrong? Why?
Weight overall size and portability matter; an unloaded weight of 15 lbs or less is preferred. I don't think I need oars.
Two bladderless designs that I can find are the Super Cat and the Caddis Platinum Elite.
Are there others?
Has anyone seen, tried, or have either, or better yet all of those? (I know there are Super Cat owners on the board)
Pros & Cons? (interested in knowing the following)
I am just short of 5'10", <190lbs
Do you sit above, awash, or in the water?
The Caddis horizontal bar (and apparently Customer Support ) seems to be an issue for some of its owners with not stabilizing the bow width... thoughts?
Neither the Super Cat nor the Caddis appear to have any real usable storage behind the seat. Do you wish you had some-more?
Is there a recommended bag for carrying and storing it? (Super Cat no longer offers one).

Other thoughts?

The PVC bladder is likely the in-direct source of your problem. Why? Because the use of PVC indicates that it is a lower quality float tube/boat and therefore (generally) everything used in the manufacturing will be lower quality, including and especially the valves.

I only use boats that use the more expensive and superior Urethane bladders (which are also lighter) as all of the other materials are also likely to be of higher quality, including the valves. A crappy valve is a crappy valve, whether it is installed in a bladderless tube or in a bladder. If you want a cheap fix for your existing bladders, get the correct valve wrench and remove and replace the valves, preferably with better quality ones. If the valves are super cheap glued-in Boston valves or something like that, then the problem is that you simply have garbage valves and a new boat is probably in order. You-know-who in UT has some bladderless float tubes but as usual, buyer beware. I would get a Super Fat Cat and never look back.

 

[Brian Miller]

The PVC bladder is likely the in-direct source of your problem. Why? Because the use of PVC indicates that it is a lower quality float tube/boat and therefore (generally) everything used in the manufacturing will be lower quality, including and especially the valves.

I only use boats that use the more expensive and superior Urethane bladders (which are also lighter) as all of the other materials are also likely to be of higher quality, including the valves. A crappy valve is a crappy valve, whether it is installed in a bladderless tube or in a bladder. If you want a cheap fix for your existing bladders, get the correct valve wrench and remove and replace the valves, preferably with better quality ones. If the valves are super cheap glued-in Boston valves or something like that, then the problem is that you simply have garbage valves and a new boat is probably in order. You-know-who in UT has some bladderless float tubes but as usual, buyer beware. I would get a Super Fat Cat and never look back.

@Freestone , Thank You! for the response. Your opinion is greatly appreciated!
Yeah, that UT dude has some diehard fans but he also pissed off (on) a lot of Customers. That by itself is a deal breaker for me.
And a few reviews have said Caddis Customer Service is also a black hole.

I had an Outcast Trinity. I sold it for to get a much lighter 3.4# backpacking float tube (that I really like!). I loved the bladderless construction and know the OC tubes have a great warranty and Customer Service. The pockets were "meh" as to be expected for a 7lb tube that I used for backpacking. But that LCS apron; even when fully inflated, sitting in the boat drew the tubes together slightly so the apron sagged without an adjustable or elastic connection to the sides and back like every other fishing PWC I've ever had. But I just talked to OSG Customer Service and the SFC now has an adjustable apron with magnetic fasteners on the tubes behind the seat! 13# so a tad lighter with more behind the seat storage than the Super Cat.
Do you use the OEM storage-carry bag, or something else?
But probably more awkward to carry inflated with backpack straps if I want to hike in a up to a mile or so.

@GAT & @troutpocket tell me why you love the Super Cat!

 

[Stonedfish]

I’d be interested to see pictures of the stripping apron with magnetic fasteners if you go that way.
I’m not a fan of the LCS apron and I’m looking to jerry rig an apron for my commander.
SF

 

[troutpocket]

I’ll give you a more complete response later. For now, this type of destination is why I love my boat. It’s an easy carry and handles a fair breeze.

 

[Brian Miller]

I’d be interested to see pictures of the stripping apron with magnetic fasteners if you go that way.
I’m not a fan of the LCS apron and I’m looking to jerry rig an apron for my commander.
SF

The OC float tube Velcro apron, or if you want to glue magnets under patches on the tubes, the magnetic apron might work. Call OSG Customer Service to ask if it could work. If not, I think these are a new style apron and may be coming out as standard and aftermarket options for their other boats soon.

 

[iveofione]

+ 1 on the Super Fat Cat. I have owned one for the better part of 20 years and recently bought a new one for my granddaughter. They are durable boats and relatively light at around 13 #, you can easily backpack the inflated boat a mile or so with backpack straps. At almost 84 I am still doing walk-ins with mine so you should be good to go for awhile yet!

A hint for you folks packing in inflated boats. Use a waist belt in addition to the back straps. Otherwise the boat will sway with every step and you will unconsciously try to compensate for it. That will just tire you out sooner.

 

[Brian Miller]

@Freestone & @iveofione , do you use the OEM storage-carry bag, or something else?

 

[troutpocket]

I bought my SuperCat 60 new in 2009. The integrated pack frame and bladderless design sold me on the concept. I figured I’d sell it if I didn’t love it. For my area it’s a great little boat. I walk into many spots that are 0.5-1.5 miles. You sit at the water line. When the water is really cold, I notice. The trade off is less surface to catch the wind. I can put up with a substantial breeze. I have the storage bag on the back of the seat and two large bags on the pontoons. Spare clothes and food go behind the seat. Water, fly boxes, tippet, and a snack in the pontoon bags. With my waders, fins, fish finder, two rods, PFD, tackle, food and water, I’m probably carrying 40+ lbs all-in. The boat itself is around 14lbs.

I use caribiners to secure a second rod on one side and net on the other. The valves are halkey roberts. I occasionally need to blow sand out of the valves but otherwise inflating/deflation is quick and easy.

I used to have watermaster boats as well. Given a choice, I preferred the WM for larger storage (throw a small cooler in) and a slick anchor system. But I got tired of carrying the additional weight.

Is the SuperCat right for you? Depends

How often do you walk in more than a 1/4 mile? Do you fish on windy days? If the answer is not often, I’d probably go with a Outcast Super Fat Cat. They seem to be an overwhelming favorite on the forum, I’m sure with good reason.

 

[Brian Miller]

@troutpocket , Thank You! so much for the detailed response!
I'm looking for something that takes a lot less time to configure than my Watermaster for myself, and a to use as a loaner for my adult son.
I would prefer to sit just above the water; not high & dry, but not in the water.
Admittedly, I fish W-WA lakes almost exclusively, and most do not require a long hike; my Backpacker Pro usually gets selected for that. But there are some easy 1.5 - 2 mile hike-in high lakes where again a loaner for my son would be nice (and he would carry the heavier-bulkier tube but I'd use the comfier-drier boat ).
Wind... sometimes. When I do fish E-WA and high lakes there can be a lot more wind..
Do you have the OEM carry-storage bag for the Super Cat? It was pricey, plus no longer available and I wonder if a larger 2nd hand soft-sided suitcase would work.
What are the dimensions of the deflated-folded Super Cat?

 

[Stonedfish]

The OC float tube Velcro apron, or if you want to glue magnets under patches on the tubes, the magnetic apron might work. Call OSG Customer Service to ask if it could work. If not, I think these are a new style apron and may be coming out as standard and aftermarket options for their other boats soon.
View attachment 12799

That probably won’t work for what envisioned since it still has those legs. Kind of a hybrid LCS design, legs up front, magnets in the back.
I was hoping it was an apron like that was on my old foam seat SFC.
I’ll give Outcast a call and see if they’d be willing to just sell the magnet part components and I’ll cobble my own apron out of an old one I have.
Thanks for the info.
SF

 

[troutpocket]

@troutpocket , Thank You! so much for the detailed response!
I'm looking for something that takes a lot less time to configure than my Watermaster for myself, and a to use as a loaner for my adult son.
I would prefer to sit just above the water; not high & dry, but not in the water.
Admittedly, I fish W-WA lakes almost exclusively, and most do not require a long hike; my Backpacker Pro usually gets selected for that. But there are some easy 1.5 - 2 mile hike-in high lakes where again a loaner for my son would be nice (and he would carry the heavier-bulkier tube but I'd use the comfier-drier boat ).
Wind... sometimes. When I do fish E-WA and high lakes there can be a lot more wind..
Do you have the OEM carry-storage bag for the Super Cat? It was pricey, plus no longer available and I wonder if a larger 2nd hand soft-sided suitcase would work.
What are the dimensions of the deflated-folded Super Cat?

Off the top of my head I would say you could fold the boat down to 3’x2’x1’ tall. Maybe a bit less with a careful folding job. I don’t have a bag for it.

 

[Wayne Kohan]

I have the Super Fat Cat. I bought the backpack straps. I since bought a hip belt for it and that helped immensely. Did a 2.5 mile walk each way earlier this spring. I have a small cargo net that fits over the back. I think I need lighter flippers, I weighed mine and they are 4 pounds. Friends have old framed backpacks they attach their SFCs to carry.

 

[Buzzy]

@Freestone & @iveofione , do you use the OEM storage-carry bag, or something else?

I'm not Ive or Sue so forgive me; I have the Outcast Fat Cat, great boat! I splurged and bought Outcasts carrying bag for that specific boat (OEM). Off season, I store my Fat Cat in the bag and if I'm on a long road trip with my pram and float tube, I transport it in the bag. This time of year the boat's inflated and transported inflated.

 

[Bruce Baker]

@Wayne Kohan and @iveofione how do you connect the backpack straps to the hip belt or tube to the hip belt?

 

[albula]

Noticed a couple years ago that one way to feel bladderless is to climb into a float tube.

 

[Wayne Kohan]

@Wayne Kohan and @iveofione how do you connect the backpack straps to the hip belt or tube to the hip belt?

I’m not at home, but the hip belt I got clips on to the lower rings on the bottom of the boat, along with the straps. I was trying to figure out how to make a hip belt when I found this one online for somewhere around $20, so not being as resourceful as Ive, I decided to go with them.

 

[Brian Miller]

The PVC bladder is likely the in-direct source of your problem. Why? Because the use of PVC indicates that it is a lower quality float tube/boat and therefore (generally) everything used in the manufacturing will be lower quality, including and especially the valves.

I only use boats that use the more expensive and superior Urethane bladders (which are also lighter) as all of the other materials are also likely to be of higher quality, including the valves. A crappy valve is a crappy valve, whether it is installed in a bladderless tube or in a bladder. If you want a cheap fix for your existing bladders, get the correct valve wrench and remove and replace the valves, preferably with better quality ones. If the valves are super cheap glued-in Boston valves or something like that, then the problem is that you simply have garbage valves and a new boat is probably in order. You-know-who in UT has some bladderless float tubes but as usual, buyer beware. I would get a Super Fat Cat and never look back.

I did it. Availability is pretty tough right now. I had called Outcast CS who mentioned a couple of dealers who he had recently shipped to that offer free shipping. Took awhile for them to be received and get the website updated. The dealer also offered what turned out to be a "$10 per $100 spent on the tube" discount on accessories so I got the bag. And to top it off, no ST!
(I just pinched myself; it's not a dream, I have the receipt!)
I still have an old REI Cruiser packframe with shoulder straps and hipbelt I used for carrying my earlier tubes so I'm good to go.

A big Thank You! to @Freestone , @iveofione , & @troutpocket (I have a nice backpack tube so I took your advice) for taking the time to respond.
What's next?

 

[Brian Miller]

I did it. Availability is pretty tough right now. I had called Outcast CS who mentioned a couple of dealers who he had recently shipped to that offer free shipping. Took awhile for them to be received and get the website updated. The dealer also offered what turned out to be a "$10 per $100 spent on the tube" discount on accessories so I got the bag. And to top it off, no ST!
(I just pinched myself; it's not a dream, I have the receipt!)
I still have an old REI Cruiser packframe with shoulder straps and hipbelt I used for carrying my earlier tubes so I'm good to go.

A big Thank You! to @Freestone , @iveofione , & @troutpocket (I have a nice backpack tube so I took your advice) for taking the time to respond.
What's next?

I tried out the SFC today for a couple of hours today at a put & take lake. I wanted to accomplish several things on the trip besides catching fish.

1. Setup and tweak the SFC for comfort, performance, and ergonomics. I like the new magnetic style LCS apron a lot better the 4-standoff one my Trinity had.
2. See how my Borger boots worked with the Force Fins - OK but not as good as dive boots.
3. Rigged up Garmin Striker vivid 4cv & Floatubemounts.com powered Garmin mount, used traditional and ClearVü displays for bottom structure, paint fish, chart plotter, set waypoints. The fish were cruising @ 10' but were looking up and I had several takes on a trolled LGF damsel on an intermediate line.
4. Used the @Stonedfish anchor rig with a big rock in my rubberized mesh anchor bag.
5. Used my Keiryu rod in the float tube - I discovered the 6X tippet max for doesn't work well in weedy environments .
6. An unplanned bonus... how not to get into a SFC
7. I even caught a fish, with what appears to be an intact adipose?

• One thing that didn't get accomplished was figuring out how to use the fish finder to successfully target the fish it detected; the main reason for the Keiryu rod.

 

[Matt B]

I tried out the SFC today for a couple of hours today at a put & take lake. I wanted to accomplish several things on the trip besides catching fish.

1. Setup and tweak the SFC for comfort, performance, and ergonomics. I like the new magnetic style LCS apron a lot better the 4-standoff one my Trinity had.
2. See how my Borger boots worked with the Force Fins - OK but not as good as dive boots.
3. Rigged up Garmin Striker vivid 4cv & Floatubemounts.com powered Garmin mount, used traditional and ClearVü displays for bottom structure, paint fish, chart plotter, set waypoints. The fish were cruising @ 10' but were looking up and I had several takes on a trolled LGF damsel on an intermediate line.
4. Used the @Stonedfish anchor rig with a big rock in my rubberized mesh anchor bag.
5. Used my Keiryu rod in the float tube - I discovered the 6X tippet max for doesn't work well in weedy environments .
6. An unplanned bonus... how not to get into a SFC
7. I even caught a fish, with what appears to be an intact adipose?

• One thing that didn't get accomplished was figuring out how to use the fish finder to successfully target the fish it detected; the main reason for the Keiryu rod.

View attachment 14813View attachment 14814

They don’t clip stockers for put and take lakes. Too much work for no real reason.