Are you watching what is happening in Olympia?

charles sullivan

Life of the Party
Forum Supporter
Once the barrier of a home is broken all bets are off. You didn't decide to make your stuff worth more than a life. The person breaking in decided their life was worth less than your stuff. Besides, I don't know their intentions.
Further, I believe that a reasonable person would assume the worst intent. In the case of a home invasion, it is difficult for me to see a scenario where I would hold the homeowner responsible for killing the invader if I were a juror.

I understand the idea that a citizen can't unilaterally decide to be judge and juror. It's easy for a normal un-trained dude to misinterpret a situation. This is one reason that I would not shoot at someone stealing from me outside my home (lawn, shed etc.). I do understand the anger that it brings, having watched people steel my stuff before. I just personally have determined that I don't trust my senses enough to make that choice.

However, when they are in the structure that you sleep, I am in a situation so vulnerable that I have to believe my senses. The same barrier that they had to enter (walls, locked doors etc.) is now a barrier for my family to get out. The person in my house has already done something that is so violating and over the line of ethical behavior, I have to assume that here is no line that they will not cross. Once someone enters your home, you are forced to assume the worst intent. That is actually the most reasonable assumption in my opinion.

Having said all that, I have determined that at this point, a baseball bat is my go to weapon should I find someone has invaded my home for a number of reasons. I'm not 74 years old and that may change along the way. I am not going to judge someone like my one neighbor who has come out of his house to confront thieves with his weapon. I do hope given the proximity of my bedroom of his home that he does not shoot me or any other neighbor by mistake. At his age, the baseball bat is not the defense weapon of choice.
 

wanderingrichard

Life of the Party
For what it is worth, I remember reading that the vast majority of weapons in Mexico in fact come from us, which could be used as an anti second amendment argument
So, there's only 1 legal gun shop in Mexico. It's government run, guns are on a very small and selective menu, only open 1 day a week, and then only for a few hours. So, law abiding citizens have it rough trying to arm themselves or even buying a hunting arm.
Oh, forgot the onerous mountain of red tape the average citizen has to wade through, too.
 

krusty

We're on the Road to Nowhere...
Forum Supporter
Mexican Government = Cartels
 

krusty

We're on the Road to Nowhere...
Forum Supporter
Like our government is any better??? I do get your point, just my cynicism creeping out.
I respectfully disagree, but don't intend to engage in further comment on the matter.
 

Old406Kid

Life of the Party
Forum Supporter
Pepper spray. Lots and lots of pepper spray...
I've looked at the Byrna pepper guns and have watched some videos on their effectiveness.
The one thing I haven't researched is what would happen if you used it in closed quarters. It would be the pits if you ended up rolling on the ground with the perpetrator.:D
 

SurfnFish

Legend
Forum Supporter
I've looked at the Byrna pepper guns and have watched some videos on their effectiveness.
The one thing I haven't researched is what would happen if you used it in closed quarters. It would be the pits if you ended up rolling on the ground with the perpetrator.:D
Pepper gel does not cloud like regular pepper spray, which is why cops carry it. I keep a compact pepper gel spray mounted on the holster of my trail bike's handle bars, and have given them to all the women in our family as well.
There are some place I will not enter unless armed. I mean, have you ever really looked at those going into a Walmart?
 

Roper

Idiot Savant, still
Forum Supporter
IMG_2211.jpegIMG_2212.jpegPepper spray. Lots and lots of pepper spray...
I have guns and do carry a backup pistol when I grouse hunt. But I know at 71 I don’t want to spend my last days in prison. Why do I say that? Because I don’t trust being judged by mostly liberal anti gun people in Puget Sound. So I will not use deadly force in my home. We do have several of these around the house though. Two blasts per gun. That gives us a chance to look for something to finish the job. Any heavy object. Maya keeps watch in the front bedroom at the entry to our house, she’s a great guard dog. My guns stay in the safe, which by the way survived an attempt to open it while we were away. Everett safe and key replaced the busted lock and handle.
Somebody mentioned Massad Oyoob. Read his ”In the gravest extreme”.
 

Mossback

Fear My Powerful Emojis 😆
Forum Supporter
I mean, have you ever really looked at those going into a Walmart?
Yes. I have...
Been into a WalMart 3 times
Once for a fishing license
Once on a trip, only place in that small burg to get the socket I needed to do a roadside repair.
Once because the better half wanted to.

Scary place for sure, doubt if I will go back.
Last couple times I waited in the car while she shopped. The parking lot was bad enough.
😁
 

krusty

We're on the Road to Nowhere...
Forum Supporter
A Kel-Lite (essentially a Mag-Lite on steroids) is an excellent defensive weapon (and much favored by many LEOs).
 

krusty

We're on the Road to Nowhere...
Forum Supporter
Yes. I have...
Been into a WalMart 3 times
Once for a fishing license
Once on a trip, only place in that small burg to get the socket I needed to do a roadside repair.
Once because the better half wanted to.

Scary place for sure, doubt if I will go back.
Last couple times I waited in the car while she shopped. The parking lot was bad enough.
😁
Wal-Mart is best patronized on Sunday morning...when its usual customers are worshipping at their church (or porcelain toilet bowl) of choice.
 
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Rob Allen

Life of the Party
Further, I believe that a reasonable person would assume the worst intent. In the case of a home invasion, it is difficult for me to see a scenario where I would hold the homeowner responsible for killing the invader if I were a juror.

I understand the idea that a citizen can't unilaterally decide to be judge and juror. It's easy for a normal un-trained dude to misinterpret a situation. This is one reason that I would not shoot at someone stealing from me outside my home (lawn, shed etc.). I do understand the anger that it brings, having watched people steel my stuff before. I just personally have determined that I don't trust my senses enough to make that choice.

However, when they are in the structure that you sleep, I am in a situation so vulnerable that I have to believe my senses. The same barrier that they had to enter (walls, locked doors etc.) is now a barrier for my family to get out. The person in my house has already done something that is so violating and over the line of ethical behavior, I have to assume that here is no line that they will not cross. Once someone enters your home, you are forced to assume the worst intent. That is actually the most reasonable assumption in my opinion.

Having said all that, I have determined that at this point, a baseball bat is my go to weapon should I find someone has invaded my home for a number of reasons. I'm not 74 years old and that may change along the way. I am not going to judge someone like my one neighbor who has come out of his house to confront thieves with his weapon. I do hope given the proximity of my bedroom of his home that he does not shoot me or any other neighbor by mistake. At his age, the baseball bat is not the defense weapon of choice.
I think that is very reasonable.
 

Rob Allen

Life of the Party
Ok, as for "Castle Doctrine";

Shooting someone in a vehicle from your porch I think is very very different than either stand your ground or the castle doctrine. But I could be wrong.
I believe in the philosophy of legally being able to stand your ground because retreat may not always be an option and I want people legally protected but a smart person should always be looking for a way out. Benefit of any doubt going to a self defence shooter.
 

wanderingrichard

Life of the Party
So my take on pepper spray or the pepper ball guns differs a bit.

The guns essentially use a paint ball, and it takes quite a few of them impacting the target before they take effect.

The spray, far more effective and faster acting.
Sabre Red makes both gel and spray, as well as old school MACE, in formulations for LEO and civilian use
They also offer an inert practice cannister you can reload with water to practice using the real stuff without getting dosed continuously.
 
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