2024 NOF

[Chris Bellows]

I’d be interested to see what @Nick Clayton and @Chris Bellows have seen in regards to saltwater coho catch and release and mortality if any while doing their guided trips.
SF

Can’t speak to mortality well after release but fly caught, non-netted released coho do pretty well imo. Can’t remember any floaters or damaged fish, and remember seeing floaters around gear anglers, especially in the early days of wild coho release offshore. Netting, bringing fish on board and double hook rigs imo are the three worst things you can do if you are planning on releasing any fish.

As I continue to say in these conversations, be careful what you wish for if you want to see wild release go away. I remember the seasons pre-clipped fish and after, and the opportunity to fish is much higher now. But if you’re looking for salmon seasons to mimic halibut seasons than I say go for it.

 

[Shad]

I'm no pro, but I've fished for coho in just about every way, salt and fresh, and my anecdote on the matter will read that open ocean coho are absolute wimps (but do seem to do much better if you use single, barbless hooks and don't net or remove them from the water), estuary fish are a little tougher, and after a couple days in a river, they're damn near bulletproof (okay, that's an exaggeration, but suffice it to say they survive CnR in rivers quite well).

Most folks fishing the ocean are using double hook rigs and bait, which results in a lot more gut hooking and external hook injuries that simply don't happen with single hooks. Certainly, that contributes to the higher mortality rate in the salt, but the big deal seems to be scale loss, as others have noted. The closer they get to freshwater, the more "set" their scales become, and the better they survive encounters of just about every kind.

I saw a post a couple pages back saying it seems like WDFW doesn't care about in-river fisheries. I'm not entirely sure they don't care, but I am absolutely certain in-river fisheries are their lowest priority. More and more, the overly-consumptive uses (both commercial and recreational) in the open ocean are leaving less and less for Puget Sound and in-river fisheries. Puget Sound is the next priority, and after it gets shut down early, it's time to start restricting in-river fisheries before they even get started.

There is a fairly direct correlation between the size of one's boat and the size of their fishing opportunity. It's shrinking for everyone, but the big cats still get the lion's share. No boat does not equal zero opportunity, but it's getting pretty close to that, and I think that's unfortunate, not just for the mostly bank-bound anglers like me losing opportunities, but also for the struggling runs of fish that get subjected to the most fishing pressure when they're most vulnerable. Not a great conservation strategy, IMO.

 

[speedbird]

I like to jig up a few ocean kings in 11. I would vote for July 20th or so for enough of the real fish around that you might have a decent chance at one, that last July week can be pretty good. Plus I think the later the season goes, the more the fish seem to be suspended in 11, and jigging gets harder as trolling gets easier.

I also like multiple MAs open at once, spreads all the pressure out. It sucks when only one area is open and everyone goes nuts together and it turns into a gong show, which really sucks for everyone who is not trolling.

This is my main concern about delaying area 10s opener, more boats fishing area 9 and that fishery closing quicker. Plenty of folks fish area 10 in July even while 9 is open, mostly folks just getting started or people who aren’t super knowledgeable about the fishery, but it spreads it out.

I think it is past time to consider an annual limit on Chinook in Puget Sound (MA 5 through MA 13).

We collectively shown that we can consistently catch available Chinook. A major benefit of a annual limit is that we would likely see more folks being brought into the fishery (those hard-core anglers would be looking to take others fishing). The future of fishing and the fish we target will be dependent on support having supporters.

Curt

Agreed. 6 ocean kings from Tofino each year was enough to feed me and my parents.

I’d also like to see WDFW toy with expanding non downrigger fishing opportunities by restricting downrigger fishing last a certain point of quota I want to experiment more with mooching and jigging, but the truth is when you only have maybe 3 weekends on the water before season shuts down, I want to maximize my chances of actually hooking something and bringing it home. It would be cool to maybe see the first 2/3rds of the quota dedicated to the troll fleet, and then use the remainder to allow a mooch/jig season. The lower encounter rate would keep the fishery open longer, letting folks have enough time to fill their freezer, but also have extra time to just enjoy being out on the water in the summer chasing mature fish

 

[speedbird]

How do you guys all feel about the management of area 10/11 Blackmouth this year? If it stays open till March ends, I’d call it a success.

I’d be interested in seeing if there is any way to get a limited opening in areas 8 or 9, tough with the snohomish and stilly situation, but I think even opening it for just two weekends would really ease the pressure on poor Jeff Head that is getting absolutely pounded to hell, and probably lead to a longer season in 10 as the Everett fleet could fish closer to home. By giving each major urban Puget sound area their own local fishery, the effort would be much more spread out. Dubious this happens for reasons previously discussed, and if it did it would likely be at the expense of in river game fish opportunities that I personally value more

 

[Paige]

I can't believe people still want and support a blackmouth season?

Sure in the past it was a robust fishery, I personally have had 25 + fish days jigging Point Wilson Darts and know a guy that landed a 30# King in March about 25 yrs ago, clearly not a black mouth but a springer.
But now we have limited seasons on adult fish and peaple want to keep 23" immature fish. WTF

Wake up people and stop being selfish!

 

[speedbird]

I can't believe people still want and support a blackmouth season?

Sure in the past it was a robust fishery, I personally have had 25 + fish days jigging Point Wilson Darts and know a guy that landed a 30# King in March about 25 yrs ago, clearly not a black mouth but a springer.
But now we have limited seasons on adult fish and peaple want to keep 23" immature fish. WTF

Wake up people and stop being selfish!

I'd want to keep a Blackmouth season as long as we continue producing resident hatchery fish. I'd be happy to have higher summer quotas with more big ocean fish, but that seems like an uphill battle to fight. If getting rid of Blackmouth fishing would improve the quality or quantity of our summer fishing, I would trade it in a heartbeat, but as of today, it probably won't, and it's two less months on the water. For what its worth, while the best of blackmouth fishing was before my time, I did see a few decent 6-8lb fish landed this season. Two out of the three mature summer chinook landed on my boat last season were similar sized.

 

[fishbadger]

That's actually a fantastic idea Curt, an annual quota on chinook as a means to curb impact by the high-liners, I would be fully supportive of that.
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[Tallguy]

Can’t speak to mortality well after release but fly caught, non-netted released coho do pretty well imo. Can’t remember any floaters or damaged fish, and remember seeing floaters around gear anglers, especially in the early days of wild coho release offshore. Netting, bringing fish on board and double hook rigs imo are the three worst things you can do if you are planning on releasing any fish.

I remain quite curious about how high "delayed mortality" rates might be for released coho. I started beach fishing for coho in 2014-2015, and have caught quite a number of them since then. For direct immediate mortality in released adult fish, something I remember when I see it, I am pretty sure I have had 3, and maybe a 4th, die on me upon release, all unclipped/wild fish that had to be released, all deep hooked in the gills and obviously bleeding as they came in. 2 died as I watched, one/two swam away but I doubt it survived long. If that's roughly accurate for non netted, reasonably well handled fish, thats ~1% or less immediate mortality in fly caught adults I have touched, I think.

Would love to know what the story is for any additional delayed mortality, due to stress or some sort of slower acting damage that happens during the fight. I havent netted many fish, but agree that nets cause more scale loss, even for knotless rubber nets. I see some occasional scale loss from line wrap, sometimes some scale loss from too much beach contact. Very curious to know if light beaching up on their side to dehook them (always wet,always fast as possible) is better than the risks of a slightly longer fight in shin deep water where you can grab and dehook them in the water, causes any substantial delayed mortality in the next few days, or prevents them from getting into the river while healthy.

If delayed mortality was even 5-10% in fish that seemed well, seemed intact, and seemed to swim away strongly, I'd probably have to rethink my fishing operations. It's a blood sport, but the degree of bloody does matter.

Shakers are another story, the number of damaged and likely died are solidly higher, but I have no idea how high.

 

[Smalma]

Tallguy-
Released mortality studies typically hold the fish for 96 hours. Those that die in the first 24 hours are considered to be immediate mortalities while those that die between hour 24 and 96th hour is considered delayed mortality. In a salmon technical team (STT) summary report on release mortalities roughly 25% of the mortalities occurred after the 24th hour. As I remember the mortality rate for that delay mortality was in the 2 to 2.5% range of fish released.

In my experience on clear water lakes and streams it is pretty common to see a critically hooked fish swimming off quickly only to die (either come to the surface and sink to the bottom) several minutes later. On the salt I'm not sure we see those types of mortalities very often.

Curt

 

[Tallguy]

Thanks for the details and data. Is there a type of "critically hooked" fish that isn't bleeding or gill hooked, that then dies shortly after, within that 24 hr? Tongue maybe? Eye, though rare outside of shakers? Or are general stress effects included in the critically hooked category? I agree that the bleeding fish are likely to die, even if they swim away. I don't think I see it very often, but it's definitely bad for those fish when it happens.

Using your numbers with 75% immediate and 25% delayed mortalities, are you thinking that total mortality is in the 8-10% range for coho, and that's an accurate average cross all recreational fishing? Of that, how much is split between the much more obvious "deep hooked and bleeding outcome", versus the much less obvious and easy to underestimate "stress effects or scale loss" outcome? I have way more angst and curiosity over the possibility of stealthy stress effects.

 

[Stonedfish]

I’ve netted a fair amount of saltwater coho over the past six years or so after starting to carry a net.
I use a net with a rubber bag and honest can’t recall any scale loss. My net has a black bag, so you'd certainly see it on the bag after netting a fish or scales in the water after rising it off.
Where I do see a lot of scale loss is in the winter with the rezzies, especially if someone grabs one while wearing say wool gloves. They'll have silver hands after doing so. Just like the rubber net, no issues with scale loss when wearing nitrile gloves. Now actually finding rezzies these days is an entirely different issue.
SF

 

[Tallguy]

Interesting proposed seasons in NOF meeting slides at WDFW page. Looks like a lot of open terrain for salmon fishing (barring the inevitable surprise closures), even with 8 days of October coho. Will clear my schedule for those days...

 

[Dustin Chromers]

I think it is past time to consider an annual limit on Chinook in Puget Sound (MA 5 through MA 13).

We collectively shown that we can consistently catch available Chinook. A major benefit of a annual limit is that we would likely see more folks being brought into the fishery (those hard-core anglers would be looking to take others fishing). The future of fishing and the fish we target will be dependent on support having supporters.

Curt

I've often thought about annual limit makes sense for a few fisheries.

 

[HauntedByWaters]

Smalma, since it appears you have been paying attention, where are we at for Nooksack springers this year?

 

[Smalma]

Smalma, since it appears you have been paying attention, where are we at for Nooksack springers this year?

The latest model run (last year's seasons with updated abundances and the various ocean options for this year) has the Nooksack over the allowable impacts (along with Skagit summer/falls, Stillaguamish and Snohomish). The three "S" river stocks all mostly summer stocks will be linked in that fishing cuts in impacts on one will help the other two. The Nooksack will be a little more difficult with the impacts occurring in different fisheries (most likely the Straits and San Juan). If your interest is an in river recreational fishery, I would expect to carve out a fishery would require even deeper cuts in marine recreational seasons. In such cases the freshwater season normal loss out, largely due at least in part because the freshwater fishers are less organized or likely engaged in the pie dividing at NOF.

Curt

 

[HauntedByWaters]

The latest model run (last year's seasons with updated abundances and the various ocean options for this year) has the Nooksack over the allowable impacts (along with Skagit summer/falls, Stillaguamish and Snohomish). The three "S" river stocks all mostly summer stocks will be linked in that fishing cuts in impacts on one will help the other two. The Nooksack will be a little more difficult with the impacts occurring in different fisheries (most likely the Straits and San Juan). If your interest is an in river recreational fishery, I would expect to carve out a fishery would require even deeper cuts in marine recreational seasons. In such cases the freshwater season normal loss out, largely due at least in part because the freshwater fishers are less organized or likely engaged in the pie dividing at NOF.

Curt

It is crazy that the powers that be are supposedly concerned with hatchery genetics mingling with wild genetics when last year we had a closed river that had over 4000 hatchery chinook return to the hatchery and many were spawning all over the river itself. They were everywhere. The year prior we had the fishery with over 4000 returning to the hatchery and similar numbers. The wild fish are functionally hatchery fish at this point and there are plenty to have a fishery. The river should be open!

 

[speedbird]

Interesting proposed seasons in NOF meeting slides at WDFW page. Looks like a lot of open terrain for salmon fishing (barring the inevitable surprise closures), even with 8 days of October coho. Will clear my schedule for those days...

Nice to see November open for area 10 chums too, might take my buddy’s inflatable and fish off chico this year

 

[Stonedfish]

Maybe someone more versed in NOF policies / politics can explain this to me.
Why is MA 9 pretty much marked selective on coho until near the end of the season when 8-2 is non selective throughout the entire proposed seasons?
It seems Snohomish wild coho would be closer to home and as a stock of concern would be more likely to be caught in 8-2 then 9?
Maybe a better way to frame this question is what are they trying to protect in 9 and not 8-2? It seems like it should be the other way around, 9 NS and 8-2 MS.

Also, it mentions the possibility of October coho fishing in 9, but October is blank in the proposed season. I believe if I remember correctly, last year was similar in proposed seasons in October in 9 but it didn’t make the cut.
SF

 

[speedbird]

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-04/draft-april11-marine-area-fisheries-copy.pdf

Reading the current proposed seasons. Nothing earthshaking but I would be pretty happy with this option. Two weekends of Chinook fishing in the San Juans rather than the one we got last year, along with a two coho limit rather than a one fish limit in the fall. Closing area 10 most days will probably slow how quickly we eat through shakers, and I am pretty happy to see it open at the same time as Area 9. A lot of fishermen would rather fish for lower odds in Area 10 if it means not having to drive up to 9, and it spreads out the pressure. Nice to have the Area 10 chum fishery back.

https://wdfw.wa.gov/sites/default/files/2024-04/2024-2025-fishery-proposals-041024.pdf

Freshwater has some bright spots. 4 fish limit on the skagit for sockeye, an early Springer opener as well. Also dark spots, no Stilly or Sky gamefish season in the summer, and no salmon fishing at all on the sky. Big disappointment but not unexpected.

 

[the_chemist]

Looking through the draft season. Looks like the Snohomish is totally closed for king this year and a late fall salmon season.

Maybe I hadn't been following but I don't remember a recent springer season on the skagit.