That didn't exactly pan out huh?
“ gun control “
- Thread starter Roper
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That didn't exactly pan out huh?
I've seen how gun control measures have been constantly introduced and had limited efficacy. I first hand see how our police forces are becoming unable or unwilling to protect us. "When seconds count, the police are minutes away" has become "hours" or "not at all". I know people can be crazy and don't like feeling unable to protect myself, even if 99.99999999% of people are not. I especially worry about my female friends and family and girls I date, because even when they are more vigilante than me, a 6'4 athletically built man, living in today's society they often end up out after dark even when they would prefer not to. I also think recent conflicts the US has engaged in has shown that dedicated fighters can resist overwhelming forces with just a rifle, or at least make occupation difficult to justify. I do not believe me, my children, or grandchildren will live to see a military conflict on US soil, but it is a nice thought that this country allows its citizens to keep firearms to protect themselves should conflict reach us.
I've also seen how gun control measures are designed based off emotions rather than facts. Banning bump stocks ignores the fact that you can use your hip as a "bumpstock" just as effectively. "Assault weapon" definitions are largely based off how a gun looks, rather than how a gun works. While it is true that other countries have less gun violence than us, that gun violence almost always turns to knife violence. Yes, mass shootings are a problem. But the fact is the vast majority of mass shootings are gang related violence that isn't going to be legislated away. The mass shootings that make headlines, like the atrocities in California, are a statistical blip. I do not see gun control as being an effective way to decrease violent crime in this country, based on the evidence I have seen.
I totally understand gun control advocates and used to be an extremely passionate one, now I just don't think it makes sense. I am not yet a firearm owner, I definitely need more education before making that purchase.
I've also seen how gun control measures are designed based off emotions rather than facts. Banning bump stocks ignores the fact that you can use your hip as a "bumpstock" just as effectively. "Assault weapon" definitions are largely based off how a gun looks, rather than how a gun works. While it is true that other countries have less gun violence than us, that gun violence almost always turns to knife violence. Yes, mass shootings are a problem. But the fact is the vast majority of mass shootings are gang related violence that isn't going to be legislated away. The mass shootings that make headlines, like the atrocities in California, are a statistical blip. I do not see gun control as being an effective way to decrease violent crime in this country, based on the evidence I have seen.
I totally understand gun control advocates and used to be an extremely passionate one, now I just don't think it makes sense. I am not yet a firearm owner, I definitely need more education before making that purchase.
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Rob Allen
Life of the Party
Never does..
According to the NIMH, one in six persons in the US has a mental health issue, ranging from moderate to severe. Mental illness in it's more severe forms leads to zero anger control, hallucinations, intense paranoia, deep depression, etc. The shooter in the ballroom had been to the police to complain his friends were trying to poison him. The shooter in Half Moon Bay, my home town for decades, had deeply seated resentments towards his co-workers.
So a population of 330 million = over 50 million with some degree of mental issues, with likely tens of thousands with severe issues. Who wants them to have access to guns, especially if they have a known history that can easily be found within a national background check system? Or a restraining order has been filed by an abused spouse?
Which leads to the falsehood that the majority of mass shootings are gang related. Two thirds of mass shootings are domestic violence incidents, with the majority of them from a disgruntled husband or boyfriend.
in more than two-thirds (68.2%) of mass shootings analyzed, the perpetrator either killed family or intimate partners or the shooter had a history of domestic violence (DV); and second, that DV-related mass shootings were associated with a greater fatality rate. On average, only one in six people survive a DV-related mass shooting compared to one in three people for non-DV mass shootings.
www.nimh.nih.gov
efsgv.org
So a population of 330 million = over 50 million with some degree of mental issues, with likely tens of thousands with severe issues. Who wants them to have access to guns, especially if they have a known history that can easily be found within a national background check system? Or a restraining order has been filed by an abused spouse?
Which leads to the falsehood that the majority of mass shootings are gang related. Two thirds of mass shootings are domestic violence incidents, with the majority of them from a disgruntled husband or boyfriend.
in more than two-thirds (68.2%) of mass shootings analyzed, the perpetrator either killed family or intimate partners or the shooter had a history of domestic violence (DV); and second, that DV-related mass shootings were associated with a greater fatality rate. On average, only one in six people survive a DV-related mass shooting compared to one in three people for non-DV mass shootings.
Mental Illness
An overview of statistics for mental illnesses. Mental illnesses are common in the United States. One in six U.S. adults lives with a mental illness (43.4 million in 2015). Mental illnesses include many different conditions that vary in degree of severity, ranging from mild to moderate to severe.
Study: Two-Thirds of Mass Shootings Linked to Domestic Violence - The Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence
More than two-thirds of mass shootings are domestic violence incidents or are perpetrated by shooters with a history of domestic violence, according to one of the first peer-reviewed research papers exploring the links between domestic violence (DV) and mass shootings. The paper also finds that...
efsgv.org
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If gun control advocates wanted their measures to get traction across aisles they would work to restore the public faith in law enforcement and law and order in general. I don't trust current law enforcement to protect me or my family. I therefore cannot get behind voluntarily disarming myself. That said I am not a gun fetish guy. I'm not preparing for war. I own just a couple firearms some of which are technically not legal to purchase in this state anymore. I have some ammo but not an armoury. I am all for bad people not getting guns. I'm for regulating bad people and not about regulation of guns to decent people.
That's my preferred mag for flock shooting.
I'm stockpiling stealth jets and Abrams tanks. You know...just to protect my acre.
North Vietnam beat us, Taliban beat us with just AK's, RPG's and goats...
We weren't in it to win it. Unlike WWII.
Exactly.
Totally valid stance, and I think it goes without saying that you can scroll past it. We're in the very slow months of the fishing calendar, and these topics are important to a number of members, especially since we invite content related to hunting and other outdoor activities.
So long as these topics remain civil, we fully support their discussion. We as a community discussing difficult topics in a constructive manner is good for everyone, and it'd be nice if we could get more of this type of civil discourse going on a larger scale. But as soon as civil discourse becomes less civil, then we step in.
Rob Allen
Life of the Party
Technically that's not true. We obliterated the Viet Cong in during Tet of 68. And we pretty thoroughly ransacked the NVA during 1972. So much so that it took them 3 years to recover and launch the Easter offensive I 1975 long after we had left.
I used the word we... It wasn't we at all. It was the good men and women of our armed forces. They did it in spite of us...
I won't talk about Afghanistan because I am pretty ignorant of our involvement there.
My only question is why are there any Taliban members left alive.. or Isis members for that matter. I bet it has more to do with civilian leadership than military incapability.
1 in 6 would mean over 50 millionAccording to the NIMH, one in six persons in the US has a mental health issue, ranging from moderate to severe. Mental illness in it's more severe forms leads to zero anger control, hallucinations, intense paranoia, deep depression, etc. The shooter in the ballroom had been to the police to complain his friends were trying to poison him. The shooter in Half Moon Bay, my home town for decades, had deeply seated resentments towards his co-workers.
So a population of 330 million = over 5 million with some degree of mental issues, with likely tens of thousands with severe issues. Who wants them to have access to guns, especially if they have a known history that can easily be found within a national background check system? Or a restraining order has been filed by an abused spouse?
Which leads to the falsehood that the majority of mass shootings are gang related. Two thirds of mass shootings are domestic violence incidents, with the majority of them from a disgruntled husband or boyfriend.
in more than two-thirds (68.2%) of mass shootings analyzed, the perpetrator either killed family or intimate partners or the shooter had a history of domestic violence (DV); and second, that DV-related mass shootings were associated with a greater fatality rate. On average, only one in six people survive a DV-related mass shooting compared to one in three people for non-DV mass shootings.
Mental Illness
An overview of statistics for mental illnesses. Mental illnesses are common in the United States. One in six U.S. adults lives with a mental illness (43.4 million in 2015). Mental illnesses include many different conditions that vary in degree of severity, ranging from mild to moderate to severe.Study: Two-Thirds of Mass Shootings Linked to Domestic Violence - The Educational Fund to Stop Gun Violence
More than two-thirds of mass shootings are domestic violence incidents or are perpetrated by shooters with a history of domestic violence, according to one of the first peer-reviewed research papers exploring the links between domestic violence (DV) and mass shootings. The paper also finds that...
Despite @Yard Sale comment I’m saying nothing…
It's a matter of commitment.
The VC were ideological fanatics determined to win at all costs, whereas the South Vietnamese/ARVN had a highly corrupt leadership, less concerned about winning the war and more intent on skimming US dollars meant for aid and supplies. After the war the senior leadership fled to the countries they had sent their skimmed millions to.
No different with the Taliban, vicious idealogues determined to win at all costs, while the Afghan government was all about grafting the endless supply of cash the US was pouring into the country to 'buy' tribal support against the Taliban. After the US pulled out, so did the vast majority of senior leadership, fleeing to whatever country they had deposited their grafted millions in.
Same as it ever was...
US Reportedly Lost $19 Billion To Fraud, Abuse in Afghanistan
The American oversight authority noted that the US Congress has appropriated nearly $134 billion for Afghan reconstruction programs since the ouster of the Taliban in late 2001
www.voanews.com
flybill
Life of the Party
I agree, but this is in the Cast and Blast section, normally I pass on these topics, even though I do like to discuss them... around the campfire with whisk(e)y and cigars after a long day of fishing is preferrable though!
Back to the topic of gun control..
I didn't grow up around guns, I did have a Luger BB gun, as a kid but my mother threw it away at some point.. I learned the most about guns and respect for them when I actually started shooting everything and anything in my 30's and early 40's. For almost 10 years, I went to the range regularily and shot everything from a Ruger 22 long rifle up to some 45's and more shotguns than I recall. I had two shotguns, a Remington Wingmaster and Browning AR Gold.. a few small handguns and a Ruger 22 Long Rifle..
Once while shooting up in the Sultan Basin, many years ago, my friend swept past my gut, only 6 inches from my belly with a loaded gun.. he thought he had discharged all of the rounds.. when I called him on it, he said it wasn't the case.. then pulled the body of the handgun back and a round popped out! I was pissed beyond belief and told him so.. he never did it again!
I also had a dear friends son, who was also a friend, who was shot and killed breaking up a fight outside of a club late at night down in Auburn.. as he was trying to break up a fight between two women, a few guns were pulled, and he was shot in the head and died almost instantly! I know his mother very well, we worked together at my first banking job out of college. When I went to his funeral, their was another fight where one lady pulled a knife and cut another lady.. sad, but true. More than a few of Nick's friends were gang members, but regardless of that he died too young and his mother outlived her son!
So I've shot stuff, and know what I'll buy and own again. A few shotgun's and a handgun or two (one as a carry gun).. I now work in a small liquor store and while we have a great bunch of customers, we also get a few sketchy ones. Unfortunately I'm not sure if I can legally carry at the shop due to the liquor license or how the owners would feel about it.
I just hope we get this figured out sooner than later. While the Redmond and County Police will come fast to my store, I don't count on them. I'm fortunate that I look like a tough guy, although I am far from it.. I can defend myself, but with the current state of shop lifting and assholes in general, I would rather be prepared for the worst.
Sorry for the long response / rant.. but I feel strongly about this issue and want my niece and nephews to be safe in college and work as they get older. Common sense should prevail, but unfortunately isn't that "common" anymore.. I just want fewer shootings in general and fewer mass shootings! I want to be able to go to dinner down in Pioneer Square, or anywhere and feel safe.. in Seattle in particular, I really don't feel safe.
Peace!
Bill
Rob Allen
Life of the Party
It's a matter of commitment.
The VC were ideological fanatics determined to win at all costs, whereas the South Vietnamese/ARVN had a highly corrupt leadership, less concerned about winning the war and more intent on skimming US dollars meant for aid and supplies. After the war the senior leadership fled to the countries they had sent their skimmed millions to.
No different with the Taliban, vicious idealogues determined to win at all costs, while the Afghan government was all about grafting the endless supply of cash the US was pouring into the country to 'buy' tribal support against the Taliban. After the US pulled out, so did the vast majority of senior leadership, fleeing to whatever country they had deposited their grafted millions in.
Same as it ever was...
US Reportedly Lost $19 Billion To Fraud, Abuse in Afghanistan
The American oversight authority noted that the US Congress has appropriated nearly $134 billion for Afghan reconstruction programs since the ouster of the Taliban in late 2001
So you're saying that the leaders of Vietnam and Afghanistan are just like congress?
In the countries mentioned, it was all about grabbing as much money as possible in an unstable government unlikely to last. So position = graft and run.So you're saying that the leaders of Vietnam and Afghanistan are just like congress?
In our country, it's all about power for life, doing anything and everything to win the next election while manuvering for power on the committees that matter, ultimately there to serve themselves, not us.
How do we change this? Term limits, third party, most votes wins.
A brief rant on a project I was involved in when working for VeriSign, which digitally secures Fortune 500 companies as well as carry all the .com and .net traffic (built their data centers around the globe).
We spooled up a requested project by the Feds to show how voting could be conducted from a PC or cell phone using secure tokens and SSL technology. The concept was to make it easy for everyone to vote = more votes = more representation. Once the beta was stood up, the government's best hammered on it, couldn't penetrate it. The concept was brought to a closed congress committee discussion. Result? Project was killed. Reason? The politicians were unwilling to support an expanded vote that could impact them in an unknown way.
Restricting voting is restricting democracy.
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Which is easily verified by the frequency of bozos one encounters on most any drive in America. 50 million is probably on the low end.
wanderingrichard
Life of the Party
I think this has something to do with the uptick in violence, sorta...
Earth's core appears to have reversed its spin. So what does this mean? - The Weather Network
The solid metal core of Earth doesn't rotate perfectly in time with the rest of the planet, and new research suggests that it may have reversed direction.www.theweathernetwork.com
Also moral decay and hopelessness in society.
That little twitter share was interesting...
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