NFR Buy on the Crypto Dip?

Non-fishing related

Evan B

Bobber Downey Jr.
Staff member
Admin
What does retirement look like in your mind? I have been involved in helping at least 150-200 folks retire in the last 25 years and very few of them look the same.
Having enough money to live comfortably and recreate to my liking without having to work. As far as details beyond that, I couldn't tell you. Never expected it'd ever happen for me unless a windfall comes my way, so I'll cross that bridge when I get there.

Edit: Also want to add - the 50% employer match thing is becoming more and more an exception and not the rule. I have personally never worked anywhere with such a perk.
 
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Josh

Dead in the water
Staff member
Admin
Making 50% matching employer funds on the money they save is nothing to sneeze at.
Probably worth clarifying that anyone lucky enough to have an 50% employer matched 401K is not getting unlimited 50% match. It's going to be 50% match up to X% of your salary. Usually 3-6% or something. So if you make 50k a year and your employer will match up to 5%, that means your employer will put in $2500 if you put in $5000 to your 401k. $2500 being 5% of $50k. If you put in $10k, your employer will still only put in $2500.

Don't get me wrong, it's a cool benefit. But it's tough to commit 10% of your gross income to max that out for most folks. Hell, it's tough to get anything out of that benefit for many folks on starting salaries in high cost of living places.
 

RCF

Life of the Party
Probably worth clarifying that anyone lucky enough to have an 50% employer matched 401K is not getting unlimited 50% match. It's going to be 50% match up to X% of your salary. Usually 3-6% or something. So if you make 50k a year and your employer will match up to 5%, that means your employer will put in $2500 if you put in $5000 to your 401k. $2500 being 5% of $50k. If you put in $10k, your employer will still only put in $2500.

Don't get me wrong, it's a cool benefit. But it's tough to commit 10% of your gross income to max that out for most folks. Hell, it's tough to get anything out of that benefit for many folks on starting salaries in high cost of living places.

Thank you for the clarification. You are entirely correct and needed to be said...

It is hard to commit to a 10% ( or x amount) of one's paycheck. Many people budget based on take-home pay - I know I do and did. If it comes out before you see it in your paycheck makes it somewhat easier IMHO. If one gets a pay raise, put some into savings (pretax) and rest into take-home pay. That way one will see the increased pay...
 

Salmo_g

Legend
Forum Supporter
I'm all too familiar with the living paycheck to paycheck lifestyle with truly zero money left to save each pay period. Spent half my working life in that situation. And then it got worse - my kids began going to college. The upside of that predicament is that the kids qualified for scholarships, grants, loans, and work study. When IRAs allowed a person to contribute $2,000 dollars a year, I managed to put in $1,000. When I first took a federal agency job, even though there was a government match that amounted to 5%, I could only manage 3%. In 2000 my "soccer mom" mini van gave up the ghost with a mere $700 trade in value, although I'd be afraid I was going to have to literally pay someone to haul it off. So I bought a 2000 Subaru and began making payments. Then in 2001 both kids were out of college, and I made that amazing discovery of actually having more money than I needed to live on.

That's when I began shoveling as much money into my gov't. TSP retirement account as regulations permitted. And despite my bad investment technique of "buying high and selling low," I managed to build up between 1/3 and 1/2 as much money as I otherwise would have. I've spelled this out to offer a ray of hope for those who think they will never be able to retire. Because as it turned out I was able to retire in 2016, having only saved for retirement about 1/2 of my years in the work force. And to make financial matters just that much worse, I got divorced when I was in my early 50s, you know, about the time when one can see having their house paid off prior to retirement. So I use my rather modest pension to make my mortgage payment, and mostly live on social security. I use my TSP retirement to help pay property taxes, but honestly I use more of it to fund fishing and other vacations. Since age 70 1/2 I have been obligated to draw down a certain amount of the TSP each year, but it's been working out such that the balance is higher now than it was when I retired, despite all the drawdowns. The way it's working out, if inflation doesn't kill off my resources, I just might make it to the finish line financially intact. So starting late to save for retirement is way, way better than not doing it at all.
 

Josh

Dead in the water
Staff member
Admin
I've spelled this out to offer a ray of hope for those who think they will never be able to retire.
It's actually really nice to hear stories like that. I think many of us deeply wish we'd been in a place to invest more/better when we were younger and worry that we've lost our chance.

However...

and mostly live on social security.
There are many of us who have no confidence that Social Security will be there for us when we retire. And if I were in my 20s? No way would I be able to count on a penny. We've gotten screwed by the politicians on both sides of the aisle stealing that money while they were distracting us with shiny culture wars. I do not understand how we as a country allowed that to happen. Now all we hear is "reduced benefits" or "raising the minimum retirement age to 70". We've known this was coming for many DECADES and nobody did anything but keep letting their palms get greased by lobbyist money. Politicians suck.
<rant over>

Anyway, it's good to hear that even with a late start and some bumps in the road, there's still a path to a retirement that involves a roof over ones head, food on the table, and days spent fishing.
 

Evan B

Bobber Downey Jr.
Staff member
Admin
Paul Krugman has a great editorial in the NY Times ,today,, about the future fate of Cryto. Not looking good..
Buy mutual fund index stocks and play the long game. You'll sleep much better at night...
I can also link articles of a similar nature from 2013, 2016, 2018, etc etc - Not saying it'll go on forever, but I've read countless "end of crypto" articles over the years.
 

Wetswinger

Go Deep
Forum Supporter
His article mainly talks about what will happen when the Feds. start overseeing this fund, as they will because of this latest disaster...

Edit. Why even risk your valuable assets on this sketchy item?
 

Josh

Dead in the water
Staff member
Admin
about the future fate of Cryto. Not looking good..

Crypto/blockchain is a really interesting concept without enough actual use cases right now. But it's not going away. Some of them will crash and burn, others will rise up from nowhere, a few will be around through it all.

It's a little like web 1.0. Folks had all these ideas, but nobody really knew how to make online businesses that worked. People invested because others were investing and the valuations spiraled to the sky....until they came crashing down and you got failures like homegrocer and pets.com and askjeeves. But then came amazon and google and instacart. Crypto/blockchain will go through it's own version of that. At some point someone will figure out widespread use cases for this technology and these things will be very useful. For now, it's a lot of speculation as people try to guess who will make it to that promised land. Speculative investing can either make you very rich or very poor.

Buy mutual fund index stocks and play the long game. You'll sleep much better at night...
All that said, I know very few people who have gone wrong playing index fund game. It's not flashy and you won't hit the jackpot. But decades of history say you'll do fine if you have enough time to ride out the bumps.
 

Wetswinger

Go Deep
Forum Supporter
Crypto/blockchain is a really interesting concept without enough actual use cases right now. But it's not going away. Some of them will crash and burn, others will rise up from nowhere, a few will be around through it all.

It's a little like web 1.0. Folks had all these ideas, but nobody really knew how to make online businesses that worked. People invested because others were investing and the valuations spiraled to the sky....until they came crashing down and you got failures like homegrocer and pets.com and askjeeves. But then came amazon and google and instacart. Crypto/blockchain will go through it's own version of that. At some point someone will figure out widespread use cases for this technology and these things will be very useful. For now, it's a lot of speculation as people try to guess who will make it to that promised land. Speculative investing can either make you very rich or very poor.


All that said, I know very few people who have gone wrong playing index fund game. It's not flashy and you won't hit the jackpot. But decades of history say you'll do fine if you have enough time to ride out the bumps.
It's given my wife and I a decent retirement. We couldn't even start until the kids left. 25 yrs. of dedicated activity paid off..
 

RCF

Life of the Party
Paul Krugman has a great editorial in the NY Times ,today,, about the future fate of Cryto. Not looking good..
Buy mutual fund index stocks and play the long game. You'll sleep much better at night...

Why pay higher management fees, loads, 12b-1 fees, broker fees and have less liquidity than a similar ETF? Might sleep even better at night knowing you are keeping more of your money.
 

DimeBrite

Saltwater fly fisherman



Speculative crypto tokens that produce zero earnings and pay zero dividends should have zero room in anybody's retirement portfolio.
 
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Evan B

Bobber Downey Jr.
Staff member
Admin
His article mainly talks about what will happen when the Feds. start overseeing this fund, as they will because of this latest disaster...

Edit. Why even risk your valuable assets on this sketchy item?
Not to sound condescending, but I don't think you have enough of an understanding of what this is all about based on your statement there.
 

Zak

Legend
I'm laughing with you, not at you. I didn't start earning a decent salary until my 40s. I'm 52 now and trying to build up my 401K, but there is not nearly enough in it. My hope is that the stocks in the 401K that I getting cheap now will take off sometime before I retire, whenever that is.

But I was young while I was young, traveled around the country, lived out of my truck, fished a lot, got in good trouble, and had a great time. I don't regret that. Come to think of it, I wondn't mind going back to that dirtbag lifestyle in retirement. Not sure my wife is on board with that plan, though.
 

jasmillo

}=)))*>
Forum Supporter
I am a very young X’r who has followed a more traditional path from an investment perspective. 401k, personal savings in safer options (mutual funds mostly), rainy day money in money markets, etc. My company and hers also have (paired down) pension plan as well. We got here by making hard decisions. We lived well below our means for years to tackle student loan debt (we both paid our own ways through college), we decided to not have kids which was tough, we were thrifty, we max out our 401k’s, we get a company match, we pay off debt early when we can (pay extra on the house payment, etc.). We also took jobs in industries outside of what we studied in school and worked extraordinarily hard to be successful in a space we did not love and new little about. We moved from family when opportunities career wise arose, etc. It took a lot of sacrifice, a ton of hard work, etc to get to the point where now…..our mid 40’s in a very solid spot looking ahead. All this really only starting to invest and save starting in our mid to late twenties because we took our early working years scrubbing the small mortgage we had in school related debt (that was an expensive graduate degree in Anthropology :) My point, with sacrifice people can put themselves in a very good spot saving and investing in a traditional way, even today. It might take making less traditional life choices though. Easier said than done I know. Not everyone is able or wiling to make the choices we did.
 

Brian Miller

Be vewy vewy quiet, I'm hunting Cutthwoat Twout
Forum Supporter
Buy mutual fund index stocks and play the long game. You'll sleep much better at night...
+1
+ in no particular order:
VA benefits helped get me our 1st house, fortunately an amicable divorce helped me keep it so I could use the equity to get my second house, in which Mrs Brian and I have lived for 34 years. The grass is greener where you water it. After a couple of refies to get out from under 12% loan and needed repairs, we paid off the house with short term savings 2 years early at retirement.
Contributed to a 401K for 38 years. I picked it up the final 10 years despite Mrs Brian's previous transition to full time mommy and homemaker. She knew how to stretch the budget, and had the grit to make it happen.
Found a good fiduciary investment counselor-broker 10 years prior to retirement and began monthly pre-tax payroll deduction along with the solid 401K contributions.
Was blessed to land a career job with a defined benefits pension plan and was fully vested before it was frozen.
Started to get hung up with CC debt for "toys". We saw the light before it got too great to fix. It was a struggle but got out from under it then got out of debt altogether except for mortgage. Started to live by the 10-10-80 rule. No new cars, travel, or toys since 1992 unless we payed cash. Car maintenance-repair costs were viewed as "short term" car payments from savings.
*edited to add* We learned to be happy and satisfied with what we have and can afford so we could save, repeat.
 
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Wetswinger

Go Deep
Forum Supporter
Why pay higher management fees, loads, 12b-1 fees, broker fees and have less liquidity than a similar ETF? Might sleep even better at night knowing you are keeping more of your money.
Yes..our advisor, Vanguard,, moved most of our holdings into ETFs that mirrored our mutual funds...
 
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DimeBrite

Saltwater fly fisherman
early-retirement-savings-rate.png
A savings & investment rate >30% definitely speeds up time to financial independence. 15% savings rate sets you up for the classic age 64 retirement (the long path the federal government hopes you choose).
 
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