A no-frills 8'4" 7wt Bass rod...or is it something more?
Echo says the "B" in their new “Eight Four-B” fly rods stands for Bass, but it's the dead of winter. I set out to see what else the B could stand for, taking it on beaches, boats, and even steelhead rivers.
So, is the Eight Four Badass? Bogus? Bonafide?
Full Disclosure: Echo sent me this rod in late December to review and keep, unsolicited. I won’t be keeping it, even if I like it. If I like it enough, I’ll buy my own. Love it or hate it I’ll be donating this to a cause like Project Mayfly or Project Healing Waters after this review posts. The only payout for me is in trying out new things and helping others find good gear or avoid making bad decisions. EDIT 2/29/2024: The review copy of the rod was donated and I purchased an 8’4” 7wt Eight Four for personal use from a local fly shop.
unBoxing
I thought about taking a video as I unboxed the rod, but Echo's sultry jazz and slow disrobing of the rod makes theirs much more fun(ny?):
If your speakers are off, you're missing out.
Is "B" for Beach?
Pictured here is the Echo Eight Four picking up 40 feet of line off the water for a recast. Notice how deep it loads into the blank and the fairly fast recovery over the course of 1/4th of a second (Frames are 1/12th of a second apart).
Also pictured (sort of) is a friend who prefers his face not to be plastered on the internet.
The beach performance got me thinking about another B.
Is "B" for Bonefish?
Boats. Is"B" for Boats?
“It felt like the kind of rod that would handle whatever I needed it to. I am self-taught and have plenty of bad habits. The Echo [Eight Four] just didn’t seem to care.
If I got aggressive with my stroke, as I often do, it would handle it no problem.”
“If I relaxed and just let the rod do the work, it handled that too—it was very forgiving.”
“Often at high tide, we find ourselves trying to throw flies between overhanging tree branches or get a cast just to the left of that oyster netting. [With the Echo Eight Four] I’d look where I wanted my fly to go, and it would just end up going there.”
So, What Is the "B" For?
Breadth or Broad-Ranging.
Outside of spooky permit at very long range, who often need a fly dropped in a tiny target, I'd be happy to take the Echo Eight Four to somewhere like Ascension Bay as my only 7 weight. But "permit" doesn't start with a "b" anyway. Here are some fisheries that do:
Baby Tarpon: A 7 or 8-weight rod is great for these baby giants, and the short lever of the Eight Four 7-wt should fight like a light 8-wt while weighing less than many 6-wt.
Back Alleys: Not a lot of fish there, but whip this short rod out in a back alley and impress your friends.
Bass: This rod can chuck big bass flies a long way with pinpoint accuracy and has the backbone to fight big bass when you find them. But, that's not too surprising. Echo would look pretty silly if their "Bass" rod failed its namesake.
Beaches: Yes. An unconventional choice, but for an open-minded beach angler this rod is good at beach.
B...Steelhead: The "b" is silent and invisible, just like the steelhead I tried to find with it. It will swing streamers, though, and strip them, just fine. The short length does hinder its ability to nymph, but gives you accuracy and loop control for indicator rigs. The only cast it didn't like at all was me trying to Snap T with it when wading waist-deep.
I didn't hook any steelhead with it, but I'm curious about whether the shorter length's strengths (shorter, stiffer lever) would be advantageous in fighting a fish versus a longer rod's ability to steer the fight. Call it a philosophical toss-up until more research has been done.
Bonefish: The Scott Sector 8'4" 6 and 8 weights have impressed me on and off boats on the flats, and this rod is right with them in ability. I don't have any flats trips scheduled for the near future, but this rod checks all the boxes for a good performance.
Boats: According to @Nick Clayton , the Echo Eight Four 7 wt may be the "perfect Puget Sound salmon rod--especially when fishing from a boat".
Bargain: @Nick Clayton compared it to his Orvis Helios 3Ds, saying that "when price is added to the equation, those rods simply don't perform better enough to warrant the huge difference in price."
Final Thoughts:
Echo says the "B" in their new “Eight Four-B” fly rods stands for Bass, but it's the dead of winter. I set out to see what else the B could stand for, taking it on beaches, boats, and even steelhead rivers.
So, is the Eight Four Badass? Bogus? Bonafide?
Full Disclosure: Echo sent me this rod in late December to review and keep, unsolicited. I won’t be keeping it, even if I like it. If I like it enough, I’ll buy my own. Love it or hate it I’ll be donating this to a cause like Project Mayfly or Project Healing Waters after this review posts. The only payout for me is in trying out new things and helping others find good gear or avoid making bad decisions. EDIT 2/29/2024: The review copy of the rod was donated and I purchased an 8’4” 7wt Eight Four for personal use from a local fly shop.
unBoxing
I thought about taking a video as I unboxed the rod, but Echo's sultry jazz and slow disrobing of the rod makes theirs much more fun(ny?):
If your speakers are off, you're missing out.
Anyway, I liked how the square tube couldn't roll away from me. Not that that's ever happened to me with several round tubes on a steep forest service road next to a drop-off. But, ya know, it's a nice touch. I also noticed when putting the rod together that the reel seat has something that doesn't exist on any rod I've seen before--alignment dots. The ring that locks onto the foot of the reel is painted with dots that line up with the dots painted on the top of the reel seat. Align these dots and you don't have to spin the ring around blindly trying to find the little notches for the reel foot to slide into. This may be a minor thing to you, but it's a design detail I found helpful--especially in low light.
No pristine product shot here--this rod has seen 70+ hours of use.
Is "B" for Beauty?The handle is a fairly standard reversed full-wells grip and is of a diameter that comfortably fits every hand that holds it (anglers sized 4’8” through 6’7”). I was a bit disappointed in the quality of the cork, though--it looked like a dog had brought it to me.
The pits and scars are filled with a compound that will probably work its way out over time, but over the 70+ hours spent casting and fishing the rod, it has held up with no discernable deterioration. The fighting butt is a layering of EVA and cork that is shaped so it won’t easily grab and hold your line like some do (such as the Sage Igniter which has a fighting butt that flares like a trumpet).
The blank itself is a nice dark olive green color that tracks with the rest of the rod's fit and finish—no fluff, just business. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. It’s a nice rod and looks good for the price range. Nothing particularly pretty, but aside from the filler in the cork it's a solid rod. This is a workhorse and it's far more important that it does exactly what you want, exactly when you want it. So, how does it deliver on that concept?
Is "B" for Back Alley?A constant challenge when reviewing this rod was that it is fairly incomparable. No other rod manufacturer seems to offer an 8'4" 7 wt, and a 9' 7 wt only works for comparison when discussing the significance and impact of 8". There are some 8'9" 7wts around, like the Sage Payload, but there's a big difference between being three inches short of 9' and 8" short of it. So much so that it didn't make sense to cast the Echo against 9' 7wts for this initial test. The closest rods I could find were Scott's Sector rods, which come in an 8'4" 6wt and 8'4" 8wt--which worked out because it let me see how this rod falls into the 7 wt category. Casting all three with the same 7-weight line gives a sense of how the rod compares to its stated weight class. This might seem silly, as the rod is labeled, but in my opinion, the saltwater fly rod world is a mess. There are a lot of stiff 6 and 7-weight rods that perform as if they are a line weight or two heavier than stated, and some saltwater rods that are absolute noodles and under strength for their weight class. If the 8'4" 6 wt outperforms it with the 7 wt line, or the rod performs like the 8 wt with the same 7 wt line, or if it falls somewhere in-between, that says a lot. I grabbed the three rods, the one 7-weight line I had at hand (a 260-grain Scientific Anglers MPX), and headed to a nearby alley.
With the Echo Eight Four-B in hand, the first thing everyone noticed is just how light it is both in terms of mass but also swing weight (mass distribution). At 3.7 ounces it's right up there with premium rods, but when swinging it feels lighter because it's so short. Yes, swing weight may not be the most important metric for a rod and can be somewhat mitigated by adding a heavier reel, but the point here is that you don't have to--it starts light and swings lighter.
Lined with a Scientific Anglers MPX WF7F, which has a head weight of 260 grains, the Echo Eight Four-B throws nice, tight loops, but accuracy was only great to about 50', where it hit a paper plate 8 out of 10 times, dipping a bit at 80' to 4 out of 10 times though it would still hit a small hula hoop 100% of the time. For almost every case I could imagine using this rod for, it'd get the job done well. Maybe it would struggle to hit permit or spooky bonefish at a distance, but then this is also the wrong line for that and it's hard to judge a rod until you've used more than one line and line type. Speaking of lines, Echo Eight Four will keep 70' of the MPX aerialized all day long even though this is the wrong line for that (too much weight too far forward).
The one thing I could not do was that I could not shoot the whole line while I could with the Sectors. Not something that comes up often when fishing, but a data point nonetheless.
Compared to the 8'4" 6wt Scott Sector w/7wt MPX: The Echo Eight Four-B is very light in swing weight for a 7 wt, and almost the same as the 6wt Sector. It throws larger loops, is more moderate in speed and recovery, and flexes deeper into the blank. It's still a fast rod, but the Sector 6wt is faster and stiffer. In comparison, the Echo Eight Four seems to be a 7wt and not a 6wt in wolf's clothing. It's also got a lot more feel than the Sector.
Compared to the 8'4" 8wt Scott Sector w/7wt MPX: The Echo is lighter, more moderate in speed and power, has more feel, and flexes far deeper into the blank. It appears to be a true 7wt and not an 8wt in sheep’s clothing.
Does B = Back Alley? In the back alley, it seemed to be a fairly fast rod with a moderately fast recovery speed. It tracks well, is well-mannered, and seems to handle a variety of casts, distances, and targets.
I liked the rod, but while casting on pavement is quick and convenient, it’s not always the best indication of how it will perform on the water and when fishing. That said, with the rod seeming to be rather capable, it got me wondering
What else could "B" stand for?
Is "B" for Beach?
Beach anglers in the Pacific Northwest make a lot of casts in a day. The typical program is to cast out as far as you can, often into the wind, to 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock, etc. until you have cast almost parallel to the beach, walk half the length of your parallel cast, and repeat the process. The more the fly is in the air, the more can go wrong in the wind and the less time it's fishing. Anglers typically load the rod with the head of the line out and make only one or two false casts. To do this, they want a rod that generates plenty of line speed, will handle a variety of lines (usually integrated shooting heads), won't collapse under a vigorous doublehaul, and if they're lucky enough to hook a chum or chinook the rod needs to be able to fight it to the beach.
During this test, I tried two different lines; the 260-grain WF7F Scientific Anglers MPX and a 200-grain Orvis Clearwater WF7F. These two lines represent the heavier and lighter ends of the usual 7wt grain window. The Eight Four cast both lines well and handled a variety of casting strokes and styles without blinking. Whether your stroke is long and laid back, aggressively punching, or something else, it took everything in stride. It can readily throw a wedge into the wind, make big indicator-friendly loops, or throw a dart-like tight loop under a branch. It will also pick up a lot of line if you spot a fish and need to quickly cast to it.
Pictured here is the Echo Eight Four picking up 40 feet of line off the water for a recast. Notice how deep it loads into the blank and the fairly fast recovery over the course of 1/4th of a second (Frames are 1/12th of a second apart).
Also pictured (sort of) is a friend who prefers his face not to be plastered on the internet.
On the Beach with the MPX: The rod bends deeper into the blank, stopping at about the second stripping guide. This equates to tons of feel, and yet the line gets out to 80' with minimal false casting. Accuracy remains nice, and it became clear that this rod is fairly versatile in casting. Even with an aggressive stroke, it was hard to impossible to overpower the rod--even when using an exaggerated doublehaul. Interestingly, though, if you want to carry a bunch of line and slow things down, the rod will happily do that...to about 70-80' when it starts to run out of gas. That said, 70' was plenty to get into some sea-run cutthroat.
Line and loop control through the air is remarkable and I like the shorter length for a slightly quicker casting stroke and more control over my fly during the retrieve. Most beach anglers use 9' rods or even 9'6" rods to keep their flies off the beach behind them, but the benefits of this rod's length make it worthy of consideration and maybe adding a steeple cast to your repertoire.
For a proficient caster, or someone looking to target fish at a distance, the MPX is a good fit but turning over bigger flies at distance could be helped even more with an even heavier shooting head. Line and loop control come easily to this rod, thanks in part to its shorter length which also allows for a quicker casting stroke and more control over the fly during the retrieve. If a fly-chasing coho had followed the fly in, I could have fished it significantly closer to my feet than a 9' or 9'6" rod thanks to geometry I was mostly asleep for in high school.
On the Beach with the Orvis Clearwater: Coming in at 200 grains, the Clearwater does not load the Echo Eight Four-B as deeply or as quickly. This speeds up line recovery and line speed, lets the rod tip track more accurately, and makes for tighter wind-cutting loops. With the lighter line, I felt an occasional hitch in the rod with this lighter line, but I didn’t see any negative effects in the result of the cast and no one else seemed to have noticed it—to me, it just didn’t feel like a very smooth transition when the rod was loaded to and from about ¾ the length.
For a beginning to moderate caster, or someone looking to carry more line and shoot less, I think underlining or using a true-to-line-weight line for this rod would be a good starting place. For a beach caster, though, your favorite shooting-head line in 250-280 grains will have you happily casting this rod.
Against a 9' 7wt: The Eight Four seems similar to a stumpy Sage X, so I borrowed a 9' 7wt Sage X and took them both to a beach. The shorter Echo Eight Four gives up about 10-20' of maximum distance and an indiscernible amount of ground-to-line height and gains a quicker casting stroke, better line and fly control, more backbone for picking up line and fighting fish, and does it all in a much lighter swinging package.
Is "B" for Beach? For the beach angler, this rod is plenty fast, will easily throw a clouser 70’ with a haul, lets a sea-run bend it, and will outperform a 6-wt for salmon. It’ll throw a loop into the teeth of a 20-knot wind, fight a chum to your feet, and likely do it weighing less than your 6 wt. Fishing a shorter rod like the Eight Four from the beach might seem strange, especially considering many folks pick a rod longer than 9’ for beach fishing.
Is it silly to use a beach rod 14” shorter than what many folks are throwing? While it might suffer in the back cast on a beach that climbs sharply from the water, no. Not silly at all. I didn’t notice much loss of useful distance or power when cast against a 9’ 7wt Sage X, and I didn’t notice my flies ticking off the rocks behind me. So, no real loss and some real upside.
The beach performance got me thinking about another B.
Is "B" for Bonefish?
Everything I saw on the beach with the rod led me to believe I'd love to cast Eight Four with a bonefish line on the flats; both wading and from a boat. With a true bonefish line, I believe this rod would be an excellent choice for flats fishing both in and out of the boat. The shorter length gives increased line and casting control, makes for a more accurate cast, and gives you a shorter and stouter lever for controlling the fight.
A short rod shines, though, when fishing from
Boats. Is"B" for Boats?
With a boat you can mitigate any loss of distance, the shorter rod makes for a lever with more backbone for lifting line or fighting fish, and being 8” shorter means the rod is significantly lighter. I invited fly fishing guide @Nick Clayton to try the Echo Eight Four and give his seasoned and third-party opinion on whether "B" stands for Boats. Nick cast the rod with a 200-grain Orvis Clearwater Type 3 but while he agreed the rod did well he felt it needed a bit more weight for his style. So he threw on an
Airflo 40+ Intermediate: and “fell in love with it. I was able to effortlessly throw a lot of line with it and my casts went exactly where I wanted them to. The 8’4” is absolutely wonderful when fishing out of a boat. We are easily making 300-400 long-distance casts in a day. A local angler I respect immensely is fond of saying ‘Puget Sound is a numbers game’—it’s all about making a lot of casts and keeping your fly in the water as much as possible. This rod is ideal for that. The shorter length is not a sacrifice at all and it offers advantages in the fish landing department. Landing fish at the side of the boat is just flat-out easier with the shorter rod.
“It felt like the kind of rod that would handle whatever I needed it to. I am self-taught and have plenty of bad habits. The Echo [Eight Four] just didn’t seem to care.
If I got aggressive with my stroke, as I often do, it would handle it no problem.”
“If I relaxed and just let the rod do the work, it handled that too—it was very forgiving.”
“Often at high tide, we find ourselves trying to throw flies between overhanging tree branches or get a cast just to the left of that oyster netting. [With the Echo Eight Four] I’d look where I wanted my fly to go, and it would just end up going there.”
Is "B" for Boats? @Nick Clayton: "I will definitely be adding a couple of these rods to my arsenal."
So, What Is the "B" For?
Breadth or Broad-Ranging.
Outside of spooky permit at very long range, who often need a fly dropped in a tiny target, I'd be happy to take the Echo Eight Four to somewhere like Ascension Bay as my only 7 weight. But "permit" doesn't start with a "b" anyway. Here are some fisheries that do:
Baby Tarpon: A 7 or 8-weight rod is great for these baby giants, and the short lever of the Eight Four 7-wt should fight like a light 8-wt while weighing less than many 6-wt.
Back Alleys: Not a lot of fish there, but whip this short rod out in a back alley and impress your friends.
Bass: This rod can chuck big bass flies a long way with pinpoint accuracy and has the backbone to fight big bass when you find them. But, that's not too surprising. Echo would look pretty silly if their "Bass" rod failed its namesake.
Beaches: Yes. An unconventional choice, but for an open-minded beach angler this rod is good at beach.
B...Steelhead: The "b" is silent and invisible, just like the steelhead I tried to find with it. It will swing streamers, though, and strip them, just fine. The short length does hinder its ability to nymph, but gives you accuracy and loop control for indicator rigs. The only cast it didn't like at all was me trying to Snap T with it when wading waist-deep.
I didn't hook any steelhead with it, but I'm curious about whether the shorter length's strengths (shorter, stiffer lever) would be advantageous in fighting a fish versus a longer rod's ability to steer the fight. Call it a philosophical toss-up until more research has been done.
Bonefish: The Scott Sector 8'4" 6 and 8 weights have impressed me on and off boats on the flats, and this rod is right with them in ability. I don't have any flats trips scheduled for the near future, but this rod checks all the boxes for a good performance.
Boats: According to @Nick Clayton , the Echo Eight Four 7 wt may be the "perfect Puget Sound salmon rod--especially when fishing from a boat".
Bargain: @Nick Clayton compared it to his Orvis Helios 3Ds, saying that "when price is added to the equation, those rods simply don't perform better enough to warrant the huge difference in price."
Final Thoughts:
| @Jake Watrous 's Impressions | @Nick Clayton 's Impressions | |
| Casting | Low swing weight, very accurate, and plenty of power for casting into the wind on the flats. | A fast rod, but not absurdly so. Plenty of feel, but will throw a clouser with heavy dumbell eyes without breaking a sweat. Felt like the kind of rod that would handle whatever I needed it to. |
| Sensitivity | Very sensitive, both when fighting fish and in casting. Aerial mends are easy to do. | The upper third of the rod flexed nicely on a beautiful 17” sea-run cutthroat and let the fish show off a bit, while the lower section had plenty of power for when I needed to turn the fish in the current. There is no doubt a 7 wt is a lot of stick for fish this size, but I didn’t feel over-gunned or that I was robbed of the experience. |
| Versatility | Will cast trout lines, heavy shooting heads, indicator rigs, heavy clousers, and everything in between. Casters of all abilities and styles will find this rod a good fit for their style. Aggressive casters won’t overpower or collapse it, laid-back casters will find the rod ready to throw loops for them. | I believe the 7wt could be an absolutely perfect Puget Sound salmon rod—especially when fishing from a boat. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that this rod in a 7 wt size might just be THE ideal coho/pink salmon rod. It felt like a rod that would be perfect for fighting those bulldogs. |
| Comfort and Ergonomics | Lightweight, nice color, clean wraps and finish. Reversed Full-Wells grip is comfortable and sized to fit all hand sizes, from kid hands to XXL adult mitts. Lots and lots of pits and filler, though. | The cork wasn’t the highest end and definitely had plenty of filler, but it looked an felt of very high quality. I also appreciate the little details like the marks on the reel seat ring where you insert the real seat. The two stripping guides are nicely sized, which I appreciate. The guides on this rod aren’t the biggest I’ve encountered, but they’re plenty big to allow small running line tangles to shoot through the guides and untangle themselves during a cast. I appreciate this little detail greatly. |
| Value | This is a $300 rod whose closest competitors are $1000 rods—and against those it holds its own and even outperforms in some metrics like line and casting stroke versatility. | No way this rod is only 300 bucks! This rod does not look or feel like a 300 dollar rod. I wouldn’t confuse it for a thousand-dollar rod, but if you had told me 400 or 500 I wouldn’t have thought it out of place. |
| Pros and Cons | Pros: Lightweight, sensitive, responsive, and fast. Will work well with whatever lines or style you use it with. Comes with Echo’s great warranty. Cons: The cork came new from the factory looking like a dog chewed on it. Lots of filler and won’t be the most durable. This is somewhat mitigated by Echo’s warranty. This also isn't the rod to use if you're trying to chuck flies to the horizon. The easy distance stopped around 70 feet. | Pros: The 8’4” length is absolutely wonderful when fishing out of a boat. The shorter length just seems to make the rod lighter [and] landing fish at the side of the boat is just flat out easier with the shorter rod. Does well with a variety of casting strokes and lines. Cons: The cork wasn’t the highest end and definitely had plenty of filler. |
| Conclusion | This rod would be happy fishing any water, fresh or salt, you want to fish a 7wt for. For the Pacific Northwest angler, this rod will do it all, from trout to salmon, steelhead to carp. | The best compliment I can give this rod is that all through the day I kept thinking what other rods I would recommend to someone in the price range, and ultimately I could not think of one. |
| Notes & Recommendations | Anglers new to the sport may find that this rod plus a 9’ 5wt will let them catch every fish in the Pacific Northwest. Novice casters or those seeking to aerialize a ton of line might appreciate underlining or using a true-line-weight line on the Echo Eight Four. The rod’s versatility will work with you to help get your fly where it’s supposed to be. The Orvis Clearwater and other lines with head weights of about 190-220 will serve you well. Proficient casters could benefit from a heavier line and will like the rod’s ability to handle a variety of lines, styles, and casts. The Echo Eight Four did great with the 260-grain Scientific Anglers MPX and loved the Airflo 40+. It would do well with an 8-wt Scientific Anglers Titan taper—especially the short head— and a 7-wt Rio Outbound Short if you were so inclined. Whatever that "B" stands for, anglers will find this is a great streamer rod—especially for $300. | I own thousand dollar fly rods that I would take over the Echo, but when price is added to the equation those rods simply don’t perform better enough to warrant the huge difference in price. I love my Orvis Helios 3D—it’s the best rod I’ve ever owned—but it’s not $600 better. I will definitely be adding a couple of these rods to my arsenal. Fishing this 7 wt for a day has convinced me. |
