a non-political climate change thread

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Causality has always been the primary discussion fence when discussing climate change, whether on a fishing forum or in the political arena. And at that point does it even matter? As a coach once said, it is what it is.

If Americans went all in on living like monks with the most minimal carbon footprint possible, is that going to change the global impact of China with 1.5 Billion folks living and working in cities so polluted the air is in a permanent haze, driving over 300 million cars with zero emission requirements if made before 2019, using hundreds of millions a/c units that use flourocarbon refridgerants. Next door is India with the same population and problems.
And 3/4 of the worlds population lives in the Third World, wanting what the US takes for granted...running water, a car, and a/c, and why wouldn't they?

And as to massive game changing solutions requiring literally trillions in capitol investment, they will never be implemented until new generations mature, build power/capitol, and find concensus. We sure can't.
So for those in the US into the near future, it will come down to state and county problems/solutions, and the two biggest battles will be over water supply and sea rise.

The most immediate water problem is the dwindling Colorado and rapid shrinking Lakes Mead and Powell, a major lifeblood to seven claimants including Mexico, all currently battling over water allotment rights determined by previous water agreements/acts, with dozens of cases heading for the SC.

As to sea rise, New York has started on a 1.45 billion seawall, SF has adopted a managed retreat along it's 3.5 mile Ocean Beach, Miami is raising streets, building sea walls and installing transfer pumps, and the list continues to grow around the ocean facing states.
For a graphic example of local impact, swing by Bellingham and view their downtown sea rise exhibit, which clearly shows how damaging even a single foot of sea rise will be to the interior WA waterlines.

For a macro look at the US, the 2022 multi-agency effort led by NOAA graphically lays it out.
oceanservice.noaa.gov

2022 Technical Report | Resources – U.S. Sea Level Change

The Sea Level Rise Technical Report is a multi-agency effort providing the most up-to-date sea level rise projections available for all U.S. states and territories out to the year 2150.
oceanservice.noaa.gov oceanservice.noaa.gov

If you don't want to read the report, here's the 4 key take-aways.

Four key takeaways from the report:
https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/hazards/sealevelrise/sealevelrise-tech-report.html#step1

The Next 30 Years of Sea Level Rise​

Sea level along the U.S. coastline is projected to rise, on average, 10 - 12 inches (0.25 - 0.30 meters) in the next 30 years (2020 - 2050), which will be as much as the rise measured over the last 100 years (1920 - 2020). Sea level rise will vary regionally along U.S. coasts because of changes in both land and ocean height.
2

More Damaging Flooding Projected​

Sea level rise will create a profound shift in coastal flooding over the next 30 years by causing tide and storm surge heights to increase and reach further inland. By 2050, “moderate” (typically damaging) flooding is expected to occur, on average, more than 10 times as often as it does today, and can be intensified by local factors.
3

Emissions Matter​

Current and future emissions matter. About 2 feet (0.6 meters) of sea level rise along the U.S. coastline is increasingly likely between 2020 and 2100 because of emissions to date. Failing to curb future emissions could cause an additional 1.5 - 5 feet (0.5 - 1.5 meters) of rise for a total of 3.5 - 7 feet (1.1 - 2.1 meters) by the end of this century.earn More
4

Continual Tracking​

Continuously tracking how and why sea level is changing is an important part of informing plans for adaptation. Our ability to monitor and understand the individual factors that contribute to sea level rise allows us to track sea level changes in a way that has never before been possible (e.g., using satellites to track global ocean levels and ice sheet thickness). Ongoing and expanded monitoring will be critical as sea levels continue to rise.​
 
SurfnFish said:
Causality has always been the primary discussion fence when discussing climate change, whether on a fishing forum or in the political arena. And at that point does it even matter? As a coach once said, it is what it is.

If Americans went all in on living like monks with the most minimal carbon footprint possible, is that going to change the global impact of China with 1.5 Billion folks living and working in cities so polluted the air is in a permanent haze, driving over 300 million cars with zero emission requirements if made before 2019, using hundreds of millions a/c units that use flourocarbon refridgerants. Next door is India with the same population and problems.
And 3/4 of the worlds population lives in the Third World, wanting what the US takes for granted...running water, a car, and a/c, and why wouldn't they?

And as to massive game changing solutions requiring literally trillions in capitol investment, they will never be implemented until new generations mature, build power/capitol, and find concensus. We sure can't.
So for those in the US into the near future, it will come down to state and county problems/solutions, and the two biggest battles will be over water supply and sea rise.

The most immediate water problem is the dwindling Colorado and rapid shrinking Lakes Mead and Powell, a major lifeblood to seven claimants including Mexico, all currently battling over water allotment rights determined by previous water agreements/acts, with dozens of cases heading for the SC.

As to sea rise, New York has started on a 1.45 billion seawall, SF has adopted a managed retreat along it's 3.5 mile Ocean Beach, Miami is raising streets, building sea walls and installing transfer pumps, and the list continues to grow around the ocean facing states.
For a graphic example of local impact, swing by Bellingham and view their downtown sea rise exhibit, which clearly shows how damaging even a single foot of sea rise will be to the interior WA waterlines.

For a macro look at the US, the 2022 multi-agency effort led by NOAA graphically lays it out.
oceanservice.noaa.gov

2022 Technical Report | Resources – U.S. Sea Level Change

The Sea Level Rise Technical Report is a multi-agency effort providing the most up-to-date sea level rise projections available for all U.S. states and territories out to the year 2150.
oceanservice.noaa.gov oceanservice.noaa.gov

If you don't want to read the report, here's the 4 key take-aways.

Four key takeaways from the report:​

https://oceanservice.noaa.gov/hazards/sealevelrise/sealevelrise-tech-report.html#step1​

​

The Next 30 Years of Sea Level Rise​

Sea level along the U.S. coastline is projected to rise, on average, 10 - 12 inches (0.25 - 0.30 meters) in the next 30 years (2020 - 2050), which will be as much as the rise measured over the last 100 years (1920 - 2020). Sea level rise will vary regionally along U.S. coasts because of changes in both land and ocean height.​

2​

​

More Damaging Flooding Projected​

Sea level rise will create a profound shift in coastal flooding over the next 30 years by causing tide and storm surge heights to increase and reach further inland. By 2050, “moderate” (typically damaging) flooding is expected to occur, on average, more than 10 times as often as it does today, and can be intensified by local factors.​

3​

​

Emissions Matter​

Current and future emissions matter. About 2 feet (0.6 meters) of sea level rise along the U.S. coastline is increasingly likely between 2020 and 2100 because of emissions to date. Failing to curb future emissions could cause an additional 1.5 - 5 feet (0.5 - 1.5 meters) of rise for a total of 3.5 - 7 feet (1.1 - 2.1 meters) by the end of this century.earn More​

4​

​

Continual Tracking​

Continuously tracking how and why sea level is changing is an important part of informing plans for adaptation. Our ability to monitor and understand the individual factors that contribute to sea level rise allows us to track sea level changes in a way that has never before been possible (e.g., using satellites to track global ocean levels and ice sheet thickness). Ongoing and expanded monitoring will be critical as sea levels continue to rise.​

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Thanks that report and synopsis. My takeway from it is that the cost of doing nothing exceeds the cost of doing something.
 
Dustin Chromers said:
I give as good as I get. Just the fact you have multiple children and moved across the country places you in high emitter status by comparison to many. Therefore I know enough. For all the concern you place on this topic I've yet to see you make suggestions or detail what it is you personally are doing to solve any of it. I'm amazed at those who choose to not live with earth and all they know about what those who do should be doing. I get you don't like me and that my brand of individualism is offensive to you. That's all fine but you and Bellevue Becky should at least be carpooling to the climate strike and possibly look inward and practice a bit of individuality and efficacy solving your own small part beyond feel good lip service.

And no I'm not really attacking you for any of your life choices. Having children is your biological purpose and introducing quality people to the planet is good. I'm merely trying to entreat you to the types of feelings others might have when questioned on individual choices in life because they don't fall lock step with the narrative of climate austerity or uprooting an entire societal way of life to fend off the inevitable without benchmarks and measurable goals.
Click to expand...

Again, you accuse of things I have not done, or said. I don't dislike you, I don't I know you and I don't pretend to know you, though you seem to pretend to know me. I have never questioned your life choices or commitment to the environment, and I could care less about your "brand of individualism". What I don't like is the style of attacking, for saying things they never said (again, there has been no guilt-tripping/lecturing that I can find), putting words in their mouth, for assuming things of individuals, of which you have no knowledge (all things you have done in the above).

Yes, I moved across country to be closer to children, would you prefer we jet back and forth multiple times per year. Again, you have no idea who I am or what I do or don't do with regard to the environment, what changes I may have made in the past, what changes I will be making going forward. And who the hell is this Belleville Becky you seem to want to lump me with?

So, enough of this, it's way off topic and serving no real purpose. I apologize for taking your post as a rant, but that's how it came off to me, and seemed to be directed at me since it was in answer to my post.

Have a wonderful evening.

cheers
 
I would like to thank the Mods for allowing this thread to go as far as it did. Few posters have read information from other posts or at least tried to debate with something other than spew that has already been proven incorrect.

Over one million people died because we politicized C19. How many have and will suffer because we can't reach a common goal to save our planet because of political BS?
 
Zak said:
Thanks that report and synopsis. My takeway from it is that the cost of doing nothing exceeds the cost of doing something.
Click to expand...
Sure, just a ? of what is the best bang for the buck
Example, I drive a 2004 Suburban with 109K on it that I keep well maintained. Do I keep driving it or buy an e-vehicle that was built by a production waste stream, and sell mine to someone who keeps driving it because it is the best they can afford?
Do we provide billions in tax breaks to encourage E-industry growth or use those $ and apply them as water supply and sea rise grants? Is the Colorado water disaster a better investment to mitigate if possible, or are we better served by placing another 100,000 E-cars on the road?
Our greatest obstacle is always the financial inequity in our country. If someone is living at the poverty line with kids, or a retiree getting by on SS, how do we from the high ground of adequate financial security convince them of the value in climate change investment while they struggle to pay their bills, while watching a Tesla zoom by and read about corporations getting trillions in bailouts and tax breaks, time and time again?
 

Even Johnnie Walker didn't do as much to destroy livers as Bas Rutten during his Pancrase years.
 
I've been walking the tightrope in this thread, trying not to fall down in the political net that is below it. "Global warming" AKA "Climate change" is not new. Al Gore showed all of us that great riches could be gained from the term "Global Warming". Never mind that all his predictions have been proven (by time itself) to be false... and far more Polar Bears exist on our continent now then when he (Al Gore) said they would become extinct etc..ect.. No! never mind any of that! Pay careful attention to the seriously obscene wealth that Al Gore has accumulated from pushing "Climate Change" all along,,, throughout the years, as he flies around in private jets, swims in his many large heated swimming pools and enjoys a "carbon footprint" that is more than a a hundred times the average American's. With all that effort, has he changed the Earth's climate in any way whatsoever? Of course not. But he is rich as hell, flying around in his private jet. That, in a "nut shell" is the motivation behind the "climate change agenda"...It's not about saving the planet,,,It's about more private jets.
 
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Jojo I've read your posts over the years, and am genuinely curious as to what input you may have in this discussion. I'm hopeful that you do not view me as a "usual suspect".
 
Jojo said:
I see the usual suspects are here to make sure there is never a way to discuss something of importance outside of fishing.
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Though the topics are constantly modified the identity of those who attempt to assume the cloak of authority never seem to change.
 
And how much of Global warming is due to cyclic solar maximus which we are experiencing now and will peak in about two years and then subside.

Dave
 
Salmo_g said:
I'm certainly relieved that this climate change thread has remained non-political. It just keeps bringing out the best in everyone.
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I just don't want to see some topics allowed and others not, that's why I pointed out at the beginning the impossibility of a non political 'climate change' thread. If surf n fish really wanted to talk about weather past present and future he would of called it that. 'Hey let's have a thread about cool weather stuff and meteorology etc' ...Like if I started a 'Lets have a non political thread on how the FBI is a corrupt organization,' how far would that get. I can't act cute and innocent and say, oh but don't participate if you have nothing good to add... but we all know where this was going.
 
Jim in Anacortes said:
I've been walking the tightrope in this thread, trying not to fall down in the political net that is below it. "Global warming" AKA "Climate change" is not new. Al Gore showed all of us that great riches could be gained from the term "Global Warming". Never mind that all his predictions have been proven (by time itself) to be false... and far more Polar Bears exist on our continent now then when he (Al Gore) said they would become extinct etc..ect.. No! never mind any of that! Pay careful attention to the seriously obscene wealth that Al Gore has accumulated from pushing "Climate Change" all along,,, throughout the years, as he flies around in private jets, swims in his many large heated swimming pools and enjoys a "carbon footprint" that is more than a a hundred times the average American's. With all that effort, has he changed the Earth's climate in any way whatsoever? Of course not. But he is rich as hell, flying around in his private jet. That, in a "nut shell" is the motivation behind the "climate change agenda"...It's not about saving the planet,,,It's about more private jets.
Click to expand...
Now we’re talking
 
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