College Football 2023

Screw college football. It is so watered down now, like drinking 3.2 beer with a pink lemonade chaser. If we invested all the money that is pissed away on college football into education instead we would have the most brilliant students in the world. China has no football but instead develops engineers for the years ahead. They graduate about 600,000 engineers a year whereas we graduate about 70,000. You can complain about 'cheap Chinese shit' all you want but the handwriting is on the wall-they are better educated than us and will out produce us while we prioritize sports over real accomplishment.

Big money wins, we lose.
 
Mossback said:

"We have yet to see firm numbers on the media deal proposed by the Pac-12 and what is being offered by the Big Ten but it seems safe to say that the B1G will be able to offer the higher number even with additional travel costs considered. That becomes extra important because the Huskies are about to see a bump in their debt-service payments that were postponed during the pandemic and the proposed Pac-12 deal may not have been enough to cover them."

Can't pay the debt bills on Pac 12 money...
😅
Click to expand...
Is it true that, per legislation, UW and WSU split sports revenue like TV deals, etc. 50/50?
 
The last I read, if all the teams who want to bail out of the Pac 12, do so, it will be eventually reduced down to the Pac 4 .

And of course that will never fly.
 
Done deal. That happened really quickly.
So long PAC 12. I hope the Coogs and Beavs can find good places to play, but there isn’t a lot of options and the finances will stink.
SF

www.espn.com

Oregon, Washington officially join Big Ten

Oregon and Washington officially joined the Big Ten Conference on Friday, expanding the conference to 18 members beginning in 2024.
www.espn.com www.espn.com
 
This is hot off the press cut and paste from my Purdue Discussion Forum - thought you PAC whatever the number is guys might be interested in one B1G perspective:

According to many reports, the Big Ten seems poised to add Washington and Oregon from the dying Pac-12, presumably at a discounted-share rate.
A few thoughts …
While I do still wonder if all this Washington and Oregon stuff might be some sort of weird shakedown of a wrecked league that doesn’t have much capacity to sweeten any pots, there does seem to be enough national media types being handed information that makes this appear real.
In which case, I don’t know what the Big Ten is doing, expanding just for the sake of expanding, throwing a lifeline to two schools who ought to be paying the Big Ten for membership at this point, not the other way around. Logic and good sense and history went out the window with all this stuff years ago.
It’s about money and TV.
Are Washington and Oregon going to compel Fox or whoever to throw so many more millions on the table that this is worthwhile for 14-16 other schools? Obviously the Duckskies would be coming in at day-old-bread prices share-wise, but the numbers still have to not just make sense for everyone, but make everyone better and richer. While this move would significantly increase the Big Ten’s chances of discovering Bigfoot before the SEC, the presumed dollars and the increased logistical pains in the ass wouldn’t seem to add up, nor would this seem like a welcomed development for your newest members in Los Angeles.
It just doesn’t add up. While disbelief must always be suspended with this topic, it is a reality that at some point, there’s a number, a ceiling that represents the difference between conference and corporation, to quote Rick Pitino about the old Big East in basketball.
There are real questions here, too, to raise on the front end.
WHAT ARE SCHOOLS GOING TO DO WITH ALL THIS MONEY?
This reeks of the Big Ten and SEC prepping for revenue sharing with their athletes, because you can only pay your coaches so much, you can only renovate your weight room so often and anyone with any working knowledge of Big Football knows this money sure as hell ain’t being spent on track and baseball and swimming and all the other sports underwritten by football, but far from paying for themselves. Olympic sports may be left to die on the vine here.
TV MONEY
Are we sure these networks throwing money around like a kid plunking down his credit card 11 drinks into his 21st-birthday outing is sustainable?
Indeed, DVR-proof live sports are appointment-viewing gold, but perhaps you’ve noticed that this is a strange time in mass media and advertising and such. I don’t know what these TV contracts say — I wish I did — but how many Peacock subscribers are gonna be needed to pay for NBC’s chunk of the billion-dollar Big Ten deal. Ask Disney about subscription projections.
This is all TiVo’s fault.
What will be funny is when these games are played and there are no traditional media there to cover them. You think the old Bergen Record — dying from a thousand Gannett cuts — is going to send their Rutgers beat guy to Eugene for a game that will end at 3 a.m. on the East Coast? I’ve done that before.
HOW DOES THIS EVEN WORK?

Does the Rose Bowl become the Big Ten title game? How the hell does scheduling work? It’s probably more workable in football with more expense, more travel and more missed class time, but basketball is gonna be a real treat now that the Big Ten’s northwestern-most city is a thousand miles closer to the Yukon Territory than it is Rutgers.
Again, Olympic sports … do baseball and softball just need to bulldoze their stadiums and play five Big Ten Tournaments at various locations and call that a season? As much as Big Ten presidents and ADs want this paper, not a one of them wants to spend it on flying their softball team to Seattle. I promise you that.
IS THE BIG TEN NOW STUCK?
Where does this end? It probably never does.
You’re now at 18 schools and that hard-ceiling number has to be right around the corner, right? Twenty seems like a reasonable projection, but so did 12.
These two schools you’re now supposedly adding, they’re not filler but they’re not game-changers, either. When a game-changer comes available, how many more can the Big Ten absorb? You know my opinion on North Carolina and my opinion mirrors that of the Big Ten, I assure you. There two Pacific Northwest additions weren’t hot commodities. They had nowhere else prestigious to go. They were desperate. Turns out the school that plays for the Apple Cup every year wasn’t thrilled about doing so on Apple+. Point is, it’s not like the SEC was going to grab these places as part of a power-consolidation, manifest-destiny sort of move. The Big Ten could gave sat back, done more work and revisited this at any time. This is the reason they sell candy at hardware stores. Because people are impulsive and the Big Ten seems to be recruiting out of the portal here: Availability is your best ability. Now you’re at 18.
What if Notre Dame needs conference cover at some point? You’re never turning them away, but this is becoming recruiting where you need available space. The gangster move here would be for Tony Pettiti to get with his NBC buddies and tell them, “The only way they’re getting Michigan, USC or Michigan State or Ohio State on their schedule is Big Ten membership. But good luck against Boston College and Stanford this year!” Obviously such a move would require those Big Ten schools to be on board. The Big Ten is apparently getting U-Dub and Oregon at a discount. That will not happen with Notre Dame, ever, and I’d imagine Ohio State and Michigan would be less than receptive to paying ND more than an equal share. (And no, I don’t think contraction ever happens, which is good news for Rutgers, who was brought into the league for outdated reasons and now serves no purpose.)
Anyhow, what a time to be alive. Realignment is perfectly analogous now to recruiting. Lots of public preening, lots of BS and transfer culture in full effect. History doesn’t matter.
You know what this is? This is one of the final scenes in “The Wire” when dumbass Cheese/Method Man says, essentially, “There’s no back in the day to this shit here. There’s no nostalgia to this. It’s just the street and the game and what happened here today.”
Then he gets shot in the head and meets the same end as the Pac-12, lying on the ground twitching.
 
RRSmith said:
This is hot off the press cut and paste from my Purdue Discussion Forum - thought you PAC whatever the number is guys might be interested in one B1G perspective:

According to many reports, the Big Ten seems poised to add Washington and Oregon from the dying Pac-12, presumably at a discounted-share rate.
A few thoughts …
While I do still wonder if all this Washington and Oregon stuff might be some sort of weird shakedown of a wrecked league that doesn’t have much capacity to sweeten any pots, there does seem to be enough national media types being handed information that makes this appear real.
In which case, I don’t know what the Big Ten is doing, expanding just for the sake of expanding, throwing a lifeline to two schools who ought to be paying the Big Ten for membership at this point, not the other way around. Logic and good sense and history went out the window with all this stuff years ago.
It’s about money and TV.
Are Washington and Oregon going to compel Fox or whoever to throw so many more millions on the table that this is worthwhile for 14-16 other schools? Obviously the Duckskies would be coming in at day-old-bread prices share-wise, but the numbers still have to not just make sense for everyone, but make everyone better and richer. While this move would significantly increase the Big Ten’s chances of discovering Bigfoot before the SEC, the presumed dollars and the increased logistical pains in the ass wouldn’t seem to add up, nor would this seem like a welcomed development for your newest members in Los Angeles.
It just doesn’t add up. While disbelief must always be suspended with this topic, it is a reality that at some point, there’s a number, a ceiling that represents the difference between conference and corporation, to quote Rick Pitino about the old Big East in basketball.
There are real questions here, too, to raise on the front end.
WHAT ARE SCHOOLS GOING TO DO WITH ALL THIS MONEY?
This reeks of the Big Ten and SEC prepping for revenue sharing with their athletes, because you can only pay your coaches so much, you can only renovate your weight room so often and anyone with any working knowledge of Big Football knows this money sure as hell ain’t being spent on track and baseball and swimming and all the other sports underwritten by football, but far from paying for themselves. Olympic sports may be left to die on the vine here.
TV MONEY
Are we sure these networks throwing money around like a kid plunking down his credit card 11 drinks into his 21st-birthday outing is sustainable?
Indeed, DVR-proof live sports are appointment-viewing gold, but perhaps you’ve noticed that this is a strange time in mass media and advertising and such. I don’t know what these TV contracts say — I wish I did — but how many Peacock subscribers are gonna be needed to pay for NBC’s chunk of the billion-dollar Big Ten deal. Ask Disney about subscription projections.
This is all TiVo’s fault.
What will be funny is when these games are played and there are no traditional media there to cover them. You think the oldBergen Record — dying from a thousand Gannett cuts — is going to send their Rutgers beat guy to Eugene for a game that will end at 3 a.m. on the East Coast? I’ve done that before.
HOW DOES THIS EVEN WORK?

Does the Rose Bowl become the Big Ten title game? How the hell does scheduling work? It’s probably more workable in football with more expense, more travel and more missed class time, but basketball is gonna be a real treat now that the Big Ten’s northwestern-most city is a thousand miles closer to the Yukon Territory than it is Rutgers.
Again, Olympic sports … do baseball and softball just need to bulldoze their stadiums and play five Big Ten Tournaments at various locations and call that a season? As much as Big Ten presidents and ADs want this paper, not a one of them wants to spend it on flying their softball team to Seattle. I promise you that.
IS THE BIG TEN NOW STUCK?
Where does this end? It probably never does.
You’re now at 18 schools and that hard-ceiling number has to be right around the corner, right? Twenty seems like a reasonable projection, but so did 12.
These two schools you’re now supposedly adding, they’re not filler but they’re not game-changers, either. When a game-changer comes available, how many more can the Big Ten absorb? You know my opinion on North Carolina and my opinion mirrors that of the Big Ten, I assure you. There two Pacific Northwest additions weren’t hot commodities. They had nowhere else prestigious to go. They were desperate. Turns out the school that plays for the Apple Cup every year wasn’t thrilled about doing so on Apple+. Point is, it’s not like the SEC was going to grab these places as part of a power-consolidation, manifest-destiny sort of move. The Big Ten could gave sat back, done more work and revisited this at any time. This is the reason they sell candy at hardware stores. Because people are impulsive and the Big Ten seems to be recruiting out of the portal here: Availability is your best ability. Now you’re at 18.
What if Notre Dame needs conference cover at some point? You’re never turning them away, but this is becoming recruiting where you need available space. The gangster move here would be for Tony Pettiti to get with his NBC buddies and tell them, “The only way they’re getting Michigan, USC or Michigan State or Ohio State on their schedule is Big Ten membership. But good luck against Boston College and Stanford this year!” Obviously such a move would require those Big Ten schools to be on board. The Big Ten is apparently getting U-Dub and Oregon at a discount. That will not happen with Notre Dame, ever, and I’d imagine Ohio State and Michigan would be less than receptive to paying ND more than an equal share. (And no, I don’t think contraction ever happens, which is good news for Rutgers, who was brought into the league for outdated reasons and now serves no purpose.)
Anyhow, what a time to be alive. Realignment is perfectly analogous now to recruiting. Lots of public preening, lots of BS and transfer culture in full effect. History doesn’t matter.
You know what this is? This is one of the final scenes in “The Wire” when dumbass Cheese/Method Man says, essentially, “There’s no back in the day to this shit here. There’s no nostalgia to this. It’s just the street and the game and what happened here today.”
Then he gets shot in the head and meets the same end as the Pac-12, lying on the ground twitching.
Click to expand...

Interesting article Bob.
One thing I think he missed is that the Seattle metro market adds the number 12 media market to the Big 18 footprint. ;)
It also give them the ability to broadcast football pretty much through all day on Saturdays. Hell, there are probably excess games now that hopefully someone picks up that has space to fill.
That conference seems to be a lot more savvy than the PAC 12 ever was. Maybe they can give the Dawgs and Ducks some ideas to help make up the financial gap that comes with not receiving a full media rights share.
Fox is probably extremely happy to see the PAC 12 exploded.

If just read that Florida St is researching getting a private equity firm involved in their efforts to get out of the ACC and their terrible tv deal. Things are changing very quickly.
SF
 
Think I’ll become a bigger fan of EWU, CWU, PLU, and UPS now.
Screaming Eagles … It’s obnoxious but fun!
Roaring Wildcats same as above ^
EMOL … and Frosty’s motto took a hit today “ Make it the big time where your at!”
Revved up Chain-less Sthil kinda like their D many times… no teeth. 😱

Plus all four above have good fishing near by and can buy a ticket for 20.00 or less at a 1pm game. (Most of the time)
 
They mentioned yesterday on KJR that the Mountain West’s media deal pays out only $3-4 million per school per year.
I just can’t see the Beavers or Coogs taking that type of financial hit.
Unfortunately they play in small media markets so that doesn’t help their cause.
SF
 
Stonedfish said:
Interesting article Bob.
One thing I think he missed is that the Seattle metro market adds the number 12 media market to the Big 18 footprint. ;)
It also give them the ability to broadcast football pretty much through all day on Saturdays. Hell, there are probably excess games now that hopefully someone picks up that has space to fill.
That conference seems to be a lot more savvy than the PAC 12 ever was. Maybe they can give the Dawgs and Ducks some ideas to help make up the financial gap that comes with not receiving a full media rights share.
Fox is probably extremely happy to see the PAC 12 exploded.

If just read that Florida St is researching getting a private equity firm involved in their efforts to get out of the ACC and their terrible tv deal. Things are changing very quickly.
SF
Click to expand...
The TV market thing makes the money...the ad revenue alone will make the broadcasters a healthy chunk of change.
Stanford and Cal bring the Bay area market, (#8) but evidently the ratings are not there for the games or the Big 10 would have taken them also, with the strong encouragement of their 'media partners' of course.
;)
 
Being an old Duck, I remember during my school years in the early sixties that the Pac Coast conference had disbanded and the teams Steve Pelleur referred to as "the little three", WSU, Oregon, and Oregon state were left out of the new AAWU which consisted of the four Cal schools and Warshington. The little 3 became independents and in those days we referred to the huskies as Univ of California-Seattle. And then not being bound by the conference limitation of only going to the Rose Bowl as conference champs, these schools started getting other bowl invites which I would like to think made them more attractive to the conference and in 64 it then became the Pac 8. But what the hell, its still football and I'll still watch it and I'll continue to cheer for WSU and the Beavs except when they play my Ducks and as for UW, it's stil huck the fuskies.. Kind of wondering what will happen to the Pac 12 channel now that there is no Pac 12.
 
The non-revenue athletic programs (aka, not football or men's basketball) are screwed by the death of the PAC-12 and the movement of UW, Oregon, USC, and UCLA to the Big-However. The PAC-12 has long had a strong history of excellence in these "Olympic" sports, but that is going to be impacted by this realignment. Their costs of travel will go through the roof (yeah, let's go to Rutgers...). Any local fan base will be unable to follow them. The time loss from classes / labs will have major impacts on the kinds of majors that they can pursue.
Both college basketball and football have acted as de-facto minor leagues to the actual pro leagues. The universities might be wise to simply spin off these two sports are "semi-pro" entities (NIL money is practically this.). Even with fat TV revenue, the economics of even football and men's basketball is sketchy unless you are a top-tier team. If football and men's basketball were gone (and their revenue, crumbs of which trickle down to the non-revenues sports), then the non-revenue sports could continue in the traditional regional conferences, but with reduced financial support (and costs).
I fully acknowledge that I'm an "academic" and the attention paid to college sports strikes me as the "tail wagging the dog". I don't see the positives of big-money athletics outweigh the downsides (scandals, excessive costs, watering down of admissions). Ultimately, the goal of an "institution of higher learning" should be education, not TV ratings and revenue.
Steve
 
Porter2 said:
Sorry just venting a bit. Sad day. The day the civil war and apple cup died. Two of my favorite college games.
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This isn't necessary true. I mean, it might be. But it's also possible to have those games on the schedule every year in this weird new conference world if the schools wanted to.
 
Sad. You will see some schools over the near time 5-10 years start to de-emphasize the athletic program and eventually drop football.

What happens at lower levels always branches out and upward destroying. Let me remind you up to the early 80’s Washington State had a viable JC football program. Couple schools dropped. Walla Walla was the last standing school but going to No, Cal and Utah to play became too much. Next you had the lower 4 year schools of NAIA dropping …forcing schools to make decisions. Drop football … travel…. Or move up. Some moved up. Here in the western US there was a great D2 conference with Western Washington, Central Washington, Humboldt State, Western Oregon, Azusa Pacific, and a few others. All that remains today iis CWU and Weatern Oregon who are now playing in basically a Texas D2 conference. And it keeps moving up. Soon there will be no CWU football. No Western Oregon. Etc etc. it will keep moving up. Exactly the same thing that has happened to the lower schools is now happening to D1 and especially in our backyard with the PAC-12. Die or move on. There was some worry that Stanford and Cal might start to rethink their athletics and especially football. So sad…
 
My guess is the Apple Cup and Civil war games will be replaced by UW vs Oregon the last game of the year.
The Dawgs could still play the Coogs and the Ducks play the Beavers every year as non conference opponents…..provided the money worked out for the UW and Ducks to travel there if was a home and away game every other year.
Unfortunately, it will all be about the $$$$ from here on out. It actually already was, but it will just get worse.
SF
 
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Cabezon said:
The non-revenue athletic programs (aka, not football or men's basketball) are screwed by the death of the PAC-12 and the movement of UW, Oregon, USC, and UCLA to the Big-However. The PAC-12 has long had a strong history of excellence in these "Olympic" sports, but that is going to be impacted by this realignment. Their costs of travel will go through the roof (yeah, let's go to Rutgers...). Any local fan base will be unable to follow them. The time loss from classes / labs will have major impacts on the kinds of majors that they can pursue.
Both college basketball and football have acted as de-facto minor leagues to the actual pro leagues. The universities might be wise to simply spin off these two sports are "semi-pro" entities (NIL money is practically this.). Even with fat TV revenue, the economics of even football and men's basketball is sketchy unless you are a top-tier team. If football and men's basketball were gone (and their revenue, crumbs of which trickle down to the non-revenues sports), then the non-revenue sports could continue in the traditional regional conferences, but with reduced financial support (and costs).
I fully acknowledge that I'm an "academic" and the attention paid to college sports strikes me as the "tail wagging the dog". I don't see the positives of big-money athletics outweigh the downsides (scandals, excessive costs, watering down of admissions). Ultimately, the goal of an "institution of higher learning" should be education, not TV ratings and revenue.
Steve
Click to expand...
As an academic these tears taste quite sweet. Delicious, in fact.
 
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As good as that KFC combo meal ?
;)

🤣🤣🤣
 
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