SFR Yellowstone National Park is Closed to all incoming traffic.
- Thread starter MT_Flyfisher
- Start date
Sorta fishing-related
As Mike Cline explained in his post, the legal term is "Ordinary high water mark." Ordinary is not as abstract as it might seem. Hydrologists generally define it as the ordinary high water mark made by one and two-year floods, not 100, 500-year, or maximum probable floods. The one and two-year floods are common and recur frequently enough to demarcate a fairly clear change between aquatic and riparian vegetation. Mike's photo of cattle illustrates an example where the change is very obvious. There are also some cases where it's difficult to discern, in which cases counties tend to defer to landowners because of two reasons: politics and taxes.
Where the matter becomes really interesting is when flooding causes massive erosion and avulsion. Old property lines that are defined by "metes and bounds" along perennial streams cause changes in property ownership. A landowner can gain or lose property, depending. This is often troubling because counties can be slow, as in many decades slow, to change property tax assessments. In these circumstances, landowners are often known to claim more property than they actually own, leaving the legal situation in near perpetual dispute. And I digress . . .
Old406Kid
Legend
In Billings they are categorizing it as a 500 year event.
ALERT: 500-year flooding event on Yellowstone River forces City of Billings water plant to shut down, residents asked to conserve water
Flooding on the Yellowstone River forced Public Works to shut down its water plant late Tuesday night and Billings residents are being asked to conserve water.
As of Wednesday at 8:30 a.m., the water level at the plant reached more than 16 feet.
For the plant to operate effectively, the river needs to be at 15 feet or below.
The City of Billings is asking residents to conserve water, specifically refrain from watering grass and using irrigation systems supplied by the city water plant.
The water system has between a day to a day-and-a-half of water supply for Billings.
The duration of the issue is unpredictable, but hydrographs from the National Weather Service show water levels dropping two feet after it reaches its crest. The latest prediction shows the Yellowstone River cresting on Wednesday.
Even after the river dips below 15 feet, the plant still has the task of cleaning filters to properly operate.
While the plant is shut down, residents might notice water pressure decreasing until the plant can turn back on.
Director of Public Works Debi Meling noted the Yellowstone River reached 87,000 cubic feet per second on Wednesday morning.
“Last year at this time we had 8,000 CFS and it was a record low,” Meling said.
These record levels make the event a 500-year flood.
Public Works assures the water plant will never distribute water that isn't safe to drink. But should conditions change, we will alert our community through social media channels, our local news media and smart phone app Code Red.
With temperatures forecast to reach the 90’s on Friday and Saturday, outdoor water usage will be tempting, but recent rains have saturated the ground, decreasing the need to keep grass and plants watered.
Other city operations have found ways to conserve water, including the fire department filling its water trucks with water from the Yellowstone River. Parks and Recreation has also stopped watering park grass on city water. The Street-Traffic Division has stopped watering grass in the right of way.
The City of Billings will alert residents as soon as water usage can return to normal.
ALERT: 500-year flooding event on Yellowstone River forces City of Billings water plant to shut down, residents asked to conserve water
Flooding on the Yellowstone River forced Public Works to shut down its water plant late Tuesday night and Billings residents are being asked to conserve water.
As of Wednesday at 8:30 a.m., the water level at the plant reached more than 16 feet.
For the plant to operate effectively, the river needs to be at 15 feet or below.
The City of Billings is asking residents to conserve water, specifically refrain from watering grass and using irrigation systems supplied by the city water plant.
The water system has between a day to a day-and-a-half of water supply for Billings.
The duration of the issue is unpredictable, but hydrographs from the National Weather Service show water levels dropping two feet after it reaches its crest. The latest prediction shows the Yellowstone River cresting on Wednesday.
Even after the river dips below 15 feet, the plant still has the task of cleaning filters to properly operate.
While the plant is shut down, residents might notice water pressure decreasing until the plant can turn back on.
Director of Public Works Debi Meling noted the Yellowstone River reached 87,000 cubic feet per second on Wednesday morning.
“Last year at this time we had 8,000 CFS and it was a record low,” Meling said.
These record levels make the event a 500-year flood.
Public Works assures the water plant will never distribute water that isn't safe to drink. But should conditions change, we will alert our community through social media channels, our local news media and smart phone app Code Red.
With temperatures forecast to reach the 90’s on Friday and Saturday, outdoor water usage will be tempting, but recent rains have saturated the ground, decreasing the need to keep grass and plants watered.
Other city operations have found ways to conserve water, including the fire department filling its water trucks with water from the Yellowstone River. Parks and Recreation has also stopped watering park grass on city water. The Street-Traffic Division has stopped watering grass in the right of way.
The City of Billings will alert residents as soon as water usage can return to normal.
Why would anybody need to be irrigating???????
This is what drives me absolutely batty, seeing sprinkler/irrigation systems on when pouring rain and the ground is saturated - shouldn't need to water a lawn for weeks.
cheers
This is what drives me absolutely batty, seeing sprinkler/irrigation systems on when pouring rain and the ground is saturated - shouldn't need to water a lawn for weeks.
cheers
In some cases, I think it’s because of Western water law doctrine: Use It Or Lose It.
DoesItFloat
Life of the Party
This flood has now redefined high water mark and I'm curious how this will affect our stream access laws. One in particular will be the wade section on the Upper Madison.
The land owners below Three Dollar Bridge on the south side of the river have signs posted that if you are standing in the vegetation, you are trespassing. Some are kind of dicks about it. I've never gotten any confirmation by the game warden or the fly shops. Most will simply tell you keep your feet wet just to be safe.
With the higher flows, we now we have water burping over into the vegetation. Feels like those banks are now fair game and I'd love to tell one of those pricks to fuck off. They have been active in trying to shut down floating in that section in an attempt to control access for themselves.
Just to give you a better idea, here is a photo of the type bank I'm referring to.
Here's a fun one to play with - http://svc.mt.gov/msl/mtcadastral
Yeah, I know, but don't think that applies to residential, more for ranching water rights. Also, 1 year decrease doesn't lead to a "lose it" in my reading of the laws, it has to be a several year decrease.
cheers
cedarslug
Steelhead
Acting governor Juras signs disaster declaration with Gianforte out of country
Montana Lt. Gov. Kristen Juras is the acting executive of the state while Gov. Greg Gianforte is out of the country. The governor’s office did not say where Gianforte is traveling.
www.mtpr.org
Gov. Gianforte isn't in state and apparently out of the country. His team won't say where he is
wanderingrichard
Life of the Party
It will be interesting to see how the Park Service deals with the washed out road sections. As we saw in one of the videoes, one hillside was still collapsing and the flood was still under cutting it. Am willing to bet the new replacement section takes at least a 2 mile detour
creekx
not crate trained
There is the Old Gardiner Road from Gardiner to Mammoth. It heads south at the entrance station. It could make for a temporary route, but I have no idea what the surface is like.
From the NE entrance a portion of the road along Soda Butte, near the Trout Lake trailhead is completely gone. That will be a tough one to repair and a temporary route will be difficult as its along a steep hillside.
FinLuver
Native Oregonian…1846
That’s also government agencies’ doctrine as well…
With government growing by leaps and bounds, it’s easy to see how others adopt the policy.
Sad…the greed and waste of resources.
wanderingrichard
Life of the Party
Yeah kind of what I was alluding to ..
Just like Colorado.
HauntedByWaters
Life of the Party
I wonder how many of the properties that got flooded have an owner that would have told you last week, “It never floods here.” Last I checked, never is a looooooooooooong time. This post isn’t meant as a jab, it is meant as a reminder that the timeline humans experience is a blip and it’s sad that people still buy, build, and live next to water.
creekx
not crate trained
Loved this quote from Bill Berg, a Park County commissioner:
“The landscape literally and figuratively has changed dramatically in the last 36 hours. A little bit ironic that this spectacular landscape was created by violent geologic and hydrologic events, and it’s just not very handy when it happens while we’re all here settled on it.”
crazy...
sure, why should the governor's location be available during a major emergency...perhaps hangin with Ted down in CancunActing governor Juras signs disaster declaration with Gianforte out of country
Montana Lt. Gov. Kristen Juras is the acting executive of the state while Gov. Greg Gianforte is out of the country. The governor’s office did not say where Gianforte is traveling.www.mtpr.org
Gov. Gianforte isn't in state and apparently out of the country. His team won't say where he is
creekx
not crate trained
I wonder if Armstrong/O'Hair/DePuy Spring Creek got destroyed again. Some sections are only separated from the river by rip rap banks. In '97 (?) the river just cut right through and it took a lot of work to restore it. It was a controversial project because the creek is not much more than an isolated river channel anyway.
MT_Flyfisher
Life of the Party
This was posted on Facebook Yesterday:
DePuy Spring Creek and O'Hairs Spring Creek
I am sad to report the following regarding the Spring Creeks near Livingston, Montana
A section of road washed out just above the fly shop on DePuy's. Apparently the river breached the berm above O’Hairs. Both O’Hairs and Depuys look like the river. The road into the big house at Depuys is completely washed out just before the house and is nowhere near passable. Obviously the Creek will need a lot of work before it reopens. I am not sure how much damage was done to the berm and if it can be easily repaired
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