Winston rods at Costco..whodda thunk

[DerekWhipple]

Thanks Jake.

Its weird to me that if its a true Winston, and its bought new, why would it not be honored? Somehow Costco got the Winston rods, if they are indeed true Winston Rods. Those rods had to have come from Winston. Just doesnt seem right not to honor a warranty, no matter how a consumer obtained it, as long as it was obtained legally. As mentioned above, at some point in time, Winston shipped a massive order to Costco, or maybe to another third party. Those rods were most likely not made any different from the ones sold to authorized dealers.

Bob

While I believe in the idea of a rod manufacturer having an unconditional warranty, as evidenced on this board and plenty of other industry stories, there has been so much abuse of warranties in the industry. I don't blame rod manufacturers at all for wanting to tighten up who gets to send back a rod for warranty.

And related to another post, while I also agree that keeping it "manufacturer to fly shop only" allows inflated prices, the other alternative of a rod manufacturer selling any number of rods to anyone who buys them starts to send the company down the rabbit hole of gearing their business to large customers, so to keep Wal-Mart as a customer, costs have to be repeatedly cut, and then eventually a $99 Winston rod made overseas is your only option from them.

 

[Evan B]

Thanks Jake.

Its weird to me that if its a true Winston, and its bought new, why would it not be honored? Somehow Costco got the Winston rods, if they are indeed true Winston Rods. Those rods had to have come from Winston. Just doesnt seem right not to honor a warranty, no matter how a consumer obtained it, as long as it was obtained legally. As mentioned above, at some point in time, Winston shipped a massive order to Costco, or maybe to another third party. Those rods were most likely not made any different from the ones sold to authorized dealers.

Bob

Because an explicit condition is that it has to be purchased at an authorized Winston dealer, which Costco is not. Winston did not sell those rods to Costco and Costco is not part of their dealer network.

Specialty brands like Winston want to be sold in "pro shops" where the staff knows the product. They go out of their way to make sure they stay only in those types of places. They're one of only a couple brands that don't even sell direct-to-consumer. They want you to go through a fly shop so that the staff can educate the consumer and get you the right rod. Not every fly rod brand is like this, but Winston is one such brand that likes to go this route.

Being in big box stores cheapens their brand, and that is bad for long term. The arguments everyone is making about Costco being GOOD for them is very short-sighted. If Winston was a staple in Costco, their brand image they've spent a long time building would take a massive hit.

I've never owned a Winston, probably never will. But they're a brand I respect.

 

[DimeBrite]

Welcome to Costco, I love you

 

[BriGuy]

Because an explicit condition is that it has to be purchased at an authorized Winston dealer, which Costco is not. Winston did not sell those rods to Costco and Costco is not part of their dealer network.

Specialty brands like Winston want to be sold in "pro shops" where the staff knows the product. They go out of their way to make sure they stay only in those types of places. They're one of only a couple brands that don't even sell direct-to-consumer. They want you to go through a fly shop so that the staff can educate the consumer and get you the right rod. Not every fly rod brand is like this, but Winston is one such brand that likes to go this route.

Being in big box stores cheapens their brand, and that is bad for long term. The arguments everyone is making about Costco being GOOD for them is very short-sighted. If Winston was a staple in Costco, their brand image they've spent a long time building would take a massive hit.

I've never owned a Winston, probably never will. But they're a brand I respect.

I agree with everything you said, but put youself in the shoes of the average customer. If I walked into the Bend Costco and saw those rods, I'd think "cool, that's a killer deal on a very good rod." I would also assume that it would be covered under the maufacturer's warranty -- just like the television, appliance or other goods are.

So, I buy the rod and break it. Then I find out Winston won't stand behind it and honor the warranty. I'd be pissed! I'd also be in the market for a new rod -- which would NOT be a Winston. Yeah, it's not fair to Winston or the fly shop if Costco bought and sold them improperly. You know what, though? As that customer, I wouldn't even think to blame Costco. I'd just be pissed and buy another brand.

For the record, I like my local fly shop and buy just about all my tying supplies and gear there. At least, they get the first shot.

 

[Evan B]

I agree with everything you said, but put youself in the shoes of the average customer. If I walked into the Bend Costco and saw those rods, I'd think "cool, that's a killer deal on a very good rod." I would also assume that it would be covered under the maufacturer's warranty -- just like the television, appliance or other goods are.

So, I buy the rod and break it. Then I find out Winston won't stand behind it and honor the warranty. I'd be pissed! I'd also be in the market for a new rod -- which would NOT be a Winston. Yeah, it's not fair to Winston or the fly shop if Costco bought and sold them improperly. You know what, though? As that customer, I wouldn't even think to blame Costco. I'd just be pissed and buy another brand.

For the record, I like my local fly shop and buy just about all my tying supplies and gear there. At least, they get the first shot.

Big hypotheticals, but yeah... customers assume a lot of things. Doesn't change that these companies have very explicit policies.

I have a LOT of experience in this particular topic from the fly rod brand side. I know that a very large portion of folks never bother to read warranty/repair policies and just assume coverage for everything. If the manufacturers caved to all of these folks, which they sometimes do, they'd lose an astronomical amount of money. I think Winston would be fine to lose these customers, honestly. I know when I worked on the brand side of this issue, there were certain customers that the company would honestly be better off without. Some customers end up costing you more than you make, plain and simple - and business is business.

 

[Josh]

Doesn't change that these companies have very explicit policies.

I think the point is that Winston might be better off to just suck it up and offer warranties for these 100 rods (or whatever) and put their efforts into stopping whatever channel allowed Costco to acquire these. Rather than wasting time and reputation telling clueless users "oh sorry, that's not an authorized retailer". Most buyers standing at Costco aren't going to understand anything about that sort of fly industry business and 100% will blame Winston, fairly or not.

It's not going to help the small authorized fly shops sell Winston if somebody is like "Fuck Winston, I'm never buying another one of their rods. They wouldn't honor a warranty".

Punishing the end user isn't likely to be the best move here. Punish the shop or the rep or whoever sold the rods to Costco.

 

[Mossback]

As that customer, I wouldn't even think to blame Costco. I'd just be pissed and buy another brand.

Well...when Winston told you it wasn't under warranty, would you then think to ask Costco why they sold rods that a manufacturers warranty did not cover ?
I mean, if you actually stopped to think about it and you knew about the Winston warranty before you made the purchase, isn't it clear the problem lies with Coscto and not Winston ?

 

[Long_Rod_Silvers]

I think the point is that Winston might be better off to just suck it up and offer warranties for these 100 rods (or whatever) and put their efforts into stopping whatever channel allowed Costco to acquire these. Rather than wasting time and reputation telling clueless users "oh sorry, that's not an authorized retailer". Most buyers standing at Costco aren't going to understand anything about that sort of fly industry business and 100% will blame Winston, fairly or not.

It's not going to help the small authorized fly shops sell Winston if somebody is like "Fuck Winston, I'm never buying another one of their rods. They wouldn't honor a warranty".

Punishing the end user isn't likely to be the best move here. Punish the shop or the rep or whoever sold the rods to Costco.

And then when it happens again because they were soft on their policy? Cave again?
And then what about the time after the next time? Cave again?

I see your point, but they have a clear policy that is not difficult to understand. Too, for how much folks are spending on these, it's negligent on the buyer side to not do just a few seconds of research if the warranty is that important to them.

All that said, I'd be willing to bet that if you bought one of these and needed help from Winston they would help you out.

They helped me out with a rod that I was not the original owner of, and they knew it (because I told them). And I honestly wouldn't have been mad if they told me to pound sand.

 

[BriGuy]

Big hypotheticals, but yeah... customers assume a lot of things. Doesn't change that these companies have very explicit policies.

I have a LOT of experience in this particular topic from the fly rod brand side. I know that a very large portion of folks never bother to read warranty/repair policies and just assume coverage for everything. If the manufacturers caved to all of these folks, which they sometimes do, they'd lose an astronomical amount of money. I think Winston would be fine to lose these customers, honestly. I know when I worked on the brand side of this issue, there were certain customers that the company would honestly be better off without. Some customers end up costing you more than you make, plain and simple - and business is business.

Not big hypotheticals at all. I'm a Costco shopper. I go to a pro shop for big sporting goods puchases (bicyles, golf clubs, fly rods) because I want to support those local businesses, get knowlegable advice from experts, and test ride/swing/cast the product.

A Costco purchase is typically not that deliberative. The customer sees it, likes it and buys it -- all with the expectation that existing warranties would apply. That would typically be my expectation, too.

 

[Evan B]

Not big hypotheticals at all. I'm a Costco shopper. I go to a pro shop for big sporting goods puchases (bicyles, golf clubs, fly rods) because I want to support those local businesses, get knowlegable advice from experts, and test ride/swing/cast the product.

A Costco purchase is typically not that deliberative. The customer sees it, likes it and buys it -- all with the expectation that existing warranties would apply. That would typically be my expectation, too.

Your expectations isn't going to change their policy, and that's what I'm getting at. Nor should it.

I just chatted with an insider so to speak. The sales rep bought up all remaining stock to prevent customers like the above from buying with unrealistic expectations of out of policy coverage. So, problem solved.

Also got the scoop on why/how this happened. Not what I was expecting to say the least... I'll post up if I get the go-ahead on saying what happened. But I think some folks may be collecting unemployment soon.

 

[Brian Miller]

I agree with everything you said, but put youself in the shoes of the average COSTCO customer JUST GETTING INTO FLY FISHING AND/OR UNAWARE OF THE EXCLUSIVE DEALER BUSINESS MODEL. If I walked into the Bend Costco and saw those rods, I'd think "cool, that's a killer deal on a very good rod." I would also assume that it would be covered under the maufacturer's warranty -- just like the television, appliance or other goods are.

So, I buy the rod and break it. Then I find out Winston won't stand behind it and honor the warranty. I'd be pissed! I'd also be in the market for a new rod -- which would NOT be a Winston. Yeah, it's not fair to Winston or the fly shop if Costco bought and sold them improperly. You know what, though? As that customer, I wouldn't even think to blame Costco. I'd just be pissed and buy another brand.

For the record, I like my local fly shop and buy just about all my tying supplies and gear there. At least, they get the first shot.

Add THOSE EXTRA WORDS, plus note that the OP pic shows rods for purchase in the store and the Costco sign not stating that the store would provide a warranty in lieu of the OEM warranty. I must say, I'd agree with both @BriGuy's point & @Josh that showing grace to unknowing Customers for a limited number of rods might just go a long way for Customer loyalty.

Questions I have is why Costco was able to acquire those rods?
I read in an earlier post that it was perhaps a dealer closeout?
Does an authorized dealer have sell a certain amount of product to qualify for lower OEM price tiers? (an incentive for mis-advising their Customers of the best rod for their needs to meet a quota)
Is that a dealer incentive to offload product they have not been able to move?
Does the OEM - dealer contract specify the dealers must only sell to end users?
Does the OEM provide a "buyback" program for dealers that are going out of business or realizing that Winston is not selling to their core Customers?

 

[Josh]

I just chatted with an insider so to speak. The sales rep bought up all remaining stock to prevent customers like the above from buying with unrealistic expectations of out of policy coverage. So, problem solved.

This, of course, is the other option if you want to not punish clueless end users but also not have to go against your stated warranty policies.

So probably the smartest move all around.

 

[Long_Rod_Silvers]

Add THOSE EXTRA WORDS, plus note that the OP pic shows rods for purchase in the store and the Costco sign not stating that the store would provide a warranty in lieu of the OEM warranty. I must say, I'd agree with both @BriGuy's point & @Josh that showing grace to unknowing Customers for a limited number of rods might just go a long way for Customer loyalty.

Questions I have is why Costco was able to acquire those rods?
I read in an earlier post that it was perhaps a dealer closeout?
Does an authorized dealer have sell a certain amount of product to qualify for lower OEM price tiers? (an incentive for mis-advising their Customers of the best rod for their needs to meet a quota)
Is that a dealer incentive to offload product they have not been able to move?
Does the OEM - dealer contract specify the dealers must only sell to end users?
Does the OEM provide a "buyback" program for dealers that are going out of business or realizing that Winston is not selling to their core Customers?

Here's some reading on it, but this is older and was in regards to when they did this with Sage and Simms.

Flylab | Substack

Fly-fishing insight: gear, travel, news, culture, the craft etc. Click to read Flylab, a Substack publication with tens of thousands of subscribers.

www.anglingtrade.com

 

[BriGuy]

Well...when Winston told you it wasn't under warranty, would you then think to ask Costco why they sold rods that a manufacturers warranty did not cover ?
I mean, if you actually stopped to think about it and you knew about the Winston warranty before you made the purchase, isn't it clear the problem lies with Coscto and not Winston ?

The short answer is "yes." Although, I probably wouldn't buy a fly rod at Costco in the first place.

Here's what I would do:

1. Go back to Costco and ask for a refund or exchange.
2. Kick myself for not buying from a fly shop.
3. If no joy from Costco, I would ask Winston how much the repair would cost.
4. Make the repair/buy another rod decision.
5. Be pissed at both Winston and Costco for the hassle.
6. Get on with my life.
7. Go buy groceries and other crap at Costco the next week.
8. Probably never buy another Winston.

Right or wrong, a lot of folks would probably roll this way, too.

 

[Evan B]

In case anyone is wondering why I may seem to have a chip on my shoulder on the topic of the warranty coverage... I'll just say that we're pretty close to a big reason why I decided to leave my position and the industry entirely. Got tired of hearing from folks who bought something and didn't read the coverage. Just assumed or called in with what they THINK it should be and expect you to honor what they assumed, not what they purchased. Anyways... that's all behind me now

 

[RCF]

Your expectations isn't going to change their policy, and that's what I'm getting at. Nor should it.

I just chatted with an insider so to speak. The sales rep bought up all remaining stock to prevent customers like the above from buying with unrealistic expectations of out of policy coverage. So, problem solved.

Also got the scoop on why/how this happened. Not what I was expecting to say the least... I'll post up if I get the go-ahead on saying what happened. But I think some folks may be collecting unemployment soon.

Great News! @Evan B - thank you for your follow-up with reliable sources inside the industry. It is greatly appreciated.

I agree Winston did the right thing by buying up all available Costco inventory. Protecting their well deserved brand is so important nowadays and not easy to do.

 

[Brian Miller]

Here's some reading on it, but this is older and was in regards to when they did this with Sage and Simms.

Flylab | Substack

Fly-fishing insight: gear, travel, news, culture, the craft etc. Click to read Flylab, a Substack publication with tens of thousands of subscribers.

www.anglingtrade.com

A fishing buddy was a buyer for an international grocery retailer. Boy the stories he told me during Covid about scrambling to acquire product he desperately needed and located on a freighter in the Indian Ocean or the Caribbean. And how buyers from different companies had an informal network to work "you scratch my back... deals". A Costco buyer was one of his "goto" partners.

The Sage-freight forwarder leak is something I don't get. How does a freight forwarder have a stock of rods not already enroute for authorized dealers, to sell to Costco?

 

[Russell]

Is sierra trading post also a grey market seller? They seem to be a dumping ground for Simms Winston Sage Hardy ross Scientific anglers airflo etc... Are they an authorized dealer getting there products legitimately or do you get no warranty from them as well?
Seems like they really undercut the fly shops.

 

[Long_Rod_Silvers]

A fishing buddy was a buyer for an international grocery retailer. Boy the stories he told me during Covid about scrambling to acquire product he desperately needed and located on a freighter in the Indian Ocean or the Caribbean. And how buyers from different companies had an informal network to work "you scratch my back... deals". A Costco buyer was one of his "goto" partners.

The Sage-freight forwarder leak is something I don't get. How does a freight forwarder have a stock of rods not already enroute for authorized dealers, to sell to Costco?

Great question, not sure. Maybe an order got cancelled mid-stream?

 

[Mossback]

Warranty abuse is well known in the fly biz.
I was always just happy I could get a rod fixed, back when Sage just did it, or you paid shipping.
I lost a top section off a Lami gear rod once, went to Woodland and said hey, need a top for this. Woman told me 'I need something here besides a story, a piece...something'.
I told her hey, I am happy to pay whatever it costs, this is my fault entirely just want the rod fishable again.
She said wow, we don't hear that very often...