Utter failure. I suck.

Matt B

Matt B

RAMONES
Forum Supporter
I watched about 4 videos of carburetor service on motors similar to mine, and then I removed my Honda 9.9’s carburetor. Took pictures while doing so. It’s a weird assembly to me.
I cleaned it with carb cleaner but then ended up cleaning it in an ultrasonic tank too.
I struggled with reassembly. You have to sandwich a gasket, the carb, another gasket and the air intake housing with 2 long bolts and wedge it in there.
Set it up to test run. Fired up first pull! Ran about five seconds and died. No restart. Gas leaking out of the carb assembly. WTF? I suck. Very discouraging. I spent a lot of time making things worse. IMG_4227.jpegIMG_4228.jpeg
 
carbs are pretty simple but complicated for today because we all do FI. I grew up with weber carbs. My suggestion would be to start over. Take it apart clean it again get the right gasket kit and rebuild it. But there is probably an instruction book on it so you can get the order of operations right. Then when you try and start it as long as you don't have fuel leaking everywhere any issues should be just a tuning issue. A knowledgeable person would have written down how many turns the adjusting screws were when it was running. Use that as a starting point and dial it in from there. If you did not write that stuff down then you have to say start full open and then close down a turn and try again until you get a rough start and can tune from there. Good think you said honda. Those can usually stand quite a bit of range. I used to have to set-up and tune 4 to 6 weber carbs on Ferrari and maserati 8 and 12 cylinder cars.
 
where is it leaking at? If it is any place that doesnt have a gasket between it or the motor it might not be fixable. Usually the problem is a clogged jet. I measure the height of the mixture screws from the carb base with calipers before removeing and then clean with air and carb cleaner before reassembly. Most small small engines dont have a float in them unless they are really old.
 
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It has a float. It’s an early 2000s era. Never been able to track down the exact year from the serial number although I do have a digital copy of the owners manual. That manual is super basic though and mostly sucks. Most of it is “take to your Honda dealer.” I never could find a decent manual with “order of operations” like an old Chilton’s when I had old cars.

I think there’s only one adjusting screw and that thing was cranked all the way in so far as I could tell, and so that’s how I put it back in. Was that wrong?

There was a lot of fuel coming out. No way to tell where it was coming from. It was kind of all over. I did something wrong and I’m not sure if starting over will help me get it right. I suspect I’ll be getting an estimate or two.
 
IMG_4216.jpeg

Here’s the serial number in case anyone out there more internet search savvy than I am feels like taking pity on me and finding exactly what year this thing is and a detailed service manual.
 
According to AI that serial # was produced in 1987.
If you have fuel running out of it it's not likely that it's a carb adjustment but more something not put together correctly.
Take a deep breath and take another shot at it....best of luck.
Also, I'm sure you are aware that there' a Youtube video out there for most everything. Some suck but there's usually the right guy somewhere. I just had numerous electrical issues on a zero turn mower and found enough good info to correct things and have it up and running.
 
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Haha yeah I know how to punch in a google search. It’s not a 1987. It’s an early 2000s. Believe me, I looked for YouTube videos. And I watched quite a few. I watched about four that were pretty applicable, but not exactly. Little changes between models and years make a big difference. I got the concepts and bungled the execution. I did re-use the gaskets but I don’t think that was it. I did not enjoy any of the carb work in any way shape or form and wish I had that time in my life back now. I need this thing to work pretty darn soon and I’m not confident—given my lack of experience and specific guidance for this assembly, which, trust me, it’s kinda a unique pain in the ass—that I’ll get it right next time.
I even watched videos of other motors and they were a simpler assembly. Seemingly, anyway. It’s all sorta variations on a theme but I’m an amateur flying nearly blind here so the nuances trip me up.
 
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wanderingrichard said:
As above. Could be you missed an O ring or maybe there's a check valve put together wrong
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Thank you. But I don’t know what the check valve is. I’ve never worked on a carb before other than adjusting idle or linkages. This was my first go. I think I’m over it.
 
I was going to say buy a rebuilt one, but at over $200 for one on ebay, even I wouldn’t pay that.
I saw a digital shop manual for $15.
 
If it's anything like the Honda carbs on their 5hp four-stroke lawn and generator engines, that float will actuate a little valve consisting of a tapered bullet-shaped pin. If there is any gunk, debris or damage to the bore or where the pin seats, it will leak like a sieve right through the body of the carb into the combustion chamber. If they stick open, they'll actually flood your crankcase and oil with fuel. I've had a generator and mower do this. Plus, that pin clips loosely into that float. It's really easy to have it slip out of the float or hang up in the bore.

Hopefully, Honda only cursed their yard equipment carbs with this design. If your boat motor is similar, inspect and clean that little f##ker carefully. Also, check your oil level and smell it. If it's overfilled and the oil smells like fuel, change the oil.
 
BriGuy said:
If it's anything like the Honda carbs on their 5hp four-stroke lawn and generator engines, that float will actuate a little valve consisting of a tapered bullet-shaped pin. If there is any gunk, debris or damage to the bore or where the pin seats, it will leak like a sieve right through the body of the carb into the combustion chamber. If they stick open, they'll actually flood your crankcase and oil with fuel. I've had a generator and mower do this. Plus, that pin clips loosely into that float. It's really easy to have it slip out of the float or hang up in the bore.

Hopefully, Honda only cursed their yard equipment carbs with this design. If your boat motor is similar, inspect and clean that little f##ker carefully. Also, check your oil level and smell it. If it's overfilled and the oil smells like fuel, change the oil.
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This resonates. I cleaned that thing with carb cleaner. I don’t know if I damaged it, hope not, guess it’s possible.
I checked the oil and level was normal but I’ll sniff it tomorrow (oh boy!) since the whole thing shouldn’t smell like fuel by then, the way it did today.
 
The fuel leaking everywhere sounds like a bad float or needle valve. First time I did my SU's I got a bad float or needle, but there I could see it was comming out an overflow opening. Put the originals back in the leaking one and it was fine. If the float bowl gasket leaks the screws may be too tight or loose.
 
Sounds like your over it... But nice skill to have when it needs to be done again.

So frustrating though. Did you tear it down again, may see an obvious mistake?

It took me 3 times to get my carb right my first rebuild. Fairly straightforward now.
 
Matt -
Any boat (motor) repair shops that have an opening to fix this thing (if you need it soon)? I messed around with my former Evinrude (2-stroke: apples and oranges) before I bit the bullet and took it to a shop.

Good luck.
 
Matt B said:
Haha yeah I know how to punch in a google search. It’s not a 1987. It’s an early 2000s. Believe me, I looked for YouTube videos. And I watched quite a few. I watched about four that were pretty applicable, but not exactly. Little changes between models and years make a big difference. I got the concepts and bungled the execution. I did re-use the gaskets but I don’t think that was it. I did not enjoy any of the carb work in any way shape or form and wish I had that time in my life back now. I need this thing to work pretty darn soon and I’m not confident—given my lack of experience and specific guidance for this assembly, which, trust me, it’s kinda a unique pain in the ass—that I’ll get it right next time.
I even watched videos of other motors and they were a simpler assembly. Seemingly, anyway. It’s all sorta variations on a theme but I’m an amateur flying nearly blind here so the nuances trip me up.
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I guess that's what I get for believing AI. :(
If this chart is to be believed it looks like a 2001 model.
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headduck said:
Sounds like your over it... But nice skill to have when it needs to be done again.

So frustrating though. Did you tear it down again, may see an obvious mistake?

It took me 3 times to get my carb right my first rebuild. Fairly straightforward now.
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I’m pretty over it…but slightly less so than I was last night. I am not sure if I want to hang on to this thing or not. Not that I have $2200 laying around for a new fuel injected Tohatsu either. But I was skeeved out by the guy I bought this from a few years back and have always wondered about its history. I let my desire to get something soon win out and went against my better judgment when I bought it. Of course it had the remains of two impeller wheels in the water cooling system. That was the beginning of our relationship, me and this Honda.

Buzzy said:
Matt -
Any boat (motor) repair shops that have an opening to fix this thing (if you need it soon)? I messed around with my former Evinrude (2-stroke: apples and oranges) before I bit the bullet and took it to a shop.
Click to expand...
I suspect I’ll be making some calls when places are open next week. Anyone in the Seattle area have a reco for small outboard repair? My friend said Ballard Marine. They are a Mercury dealer. We’ll see.
It’d be amazing to have a mobile mechanic come and let me watch him do the repair.
 
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