dflett68
Steelhead
it's a thoughtful and knowledgeable response, i enjoyed it.
i would distinguish all-time talent from generational talent, and there's a case that the pens have had more all-time talent than any other team. depending on how you factor/value longevity - i don't think even the oilers all-time could put 3 players on the ice to match mario, jagr, and crosby. the pens certainly have not been luckier than the oilers - but they've converted their modern opportunities to two runs of dominance versus one for the oilers.
still, most cups since 1990 were not won with all-time or even generational talent so much as very high end talent with depth, coaching, and culture.
lindros was a generational talent, and they didn't have to trade for him. they lusted for him because he was western canadian and in the mold of bobby clark - only way more gifted and skilled. they could have had a generational swedish player who turned out to fit their team ethic perfectly (apart from performative fighting) - for nothing - and kept everything else they gave up for lindros in addition.
he was as great or greater a talent than stevie-y or federov (maybe not federov) even at 6'4" / 240! but looks at the teams and the coaching. the devils? come on. claude lemieux? please. great teams, superbly built, superbly coached. generational defensive talent in neidermayer. you could very sanely argue that broduer was more a beneficiary of that defensive system than a generational goalie. but did any of those lou lamoriello teams ever have a player beside neidermayer who was in lindros' class, let alone an offensive centerpiece? not even close.
you're right about the hits. maybe in juniors if you are that big and skilled versus your peers, you don't develop enough discipline around protecting yourself and keeping your head up. he paid the price. but once he wanted to care for his brain in a sane fashion - he wasn't tough or reckless enough for bobby clarke or philly.
still, he did get them to a final in his 5th season. with the rangers, there were some nights he looked like his old self. you just don't see guys that big that are that skilled - even now. lindros. jagr. kovalev. and, well - mario, of course. lindros was a truly special player - he just got hurt and distrusted the team doctors and the flyers had no patience for that.
people forget what a baby mario could be in the beginning, before the 87 canada cup when he spent time with gretzky and messier, et al - and we need not mention jagr's reputation for pouting. mario was hurt early and often and for long stretches. his body was a lemon. he missed over 50 games the year they won the first cup. he elected to sit out the whole 94-95 season to take care of his body and recover from chemo and his longstanding back issues (guess who won the hart and tied for the art ross that year). hurt and french. how do you think bobby clarke would have handled those two guys? what players would he have put around them? i can't see him having the patience or skill to have dealt with the personalities and injuries, nor built the right teams.
speaking of that, and jagr, and luck, and talent falling in your lap: the pens took jagr at 5. guess who drafted mark ricci at 4 that year?
