NFR Ukraine...Little Did I Know

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Rob Allen said:
so we'll let him have Poland then too? How about Finland, Sweden? Germany? all he has to do is threaten to use nukes to get whatever he wants? better to just call his bluff now so fewer people get hurt. and if he nukes us it is something he is going to do anyway.
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Don't believe anyone is saying that, Article 5 stands, so incursion into Poland or Germany and NATO forces become involved. Unlikely that he has the military strength at this point to shift and move north to Finland or Sweden, estimates are that 50 to 60% of his ground forces are now in the south. The Swedish air force is not to be taken lightly. Also believe Putin is enough a student of history to know how disastrous a 2-front war can be.

We are already hearing verifiable stories of Russian conscripts laying down arms, sabotaging their own equipment, running out of fuel and food (an army travels on its stomach), etc. Putin has greatly miscalculated his own strength and the resolve of both the Ukrainian people and the NATO alliance - hoping the realization is sinking in and he tries to find a way of claiming victory (ie, Ukraine has no been denazified, we can leave) and shutting this down - I would think we also need to provide carrots to nudge him in this direction (would not be surprised if this was happening in backchannels), not just sticks, but be ready to wack him and wack him hard should he try to expand this (also conveyed by the same back channels).
 
Ukraine is starting to see volunteer fighters from other countries begin to trickle in, many trained ex- military.
Roving bands of trained vets armed with Stingers and Janvelins, which will be arriving in days = Ruski armor, choppers and planes sitting ducks.
Apparently an increasing number of Russian soldier, likely conscripts, are sabotaging their own vehicles and in many cases surrendering.
When the pictures start coming out of old Ukrainian women dropping Molotove cocktails from their apartment living room windows onto the Russians in the street below, and the Russian blasting that apartment, it will hopefully force a united response that sends troops and armor into West Ukraine to create a protected safe zone for civilians.
As it is, my heart was broken yesterday when I saw pictures of the family murdered at a stop sign by Russian gunmen without uniforms who gunned down the mother and father, their youngest daughter, and sent their other two kids to intensive care.
This is the face of who Russia is murdering in Urkaine. May they rot in hell and get there quickly.

1646175998085.png
 
Canuck from Kansas said:
Putin has greatly miscalculated his own strength and the resolve of both the Ukrainian people and the NATO alliance - hoping the realization is sinking in and he tries to find a way of claiming victory (ie, Ukraine has no been denazified, we can leave) and shutting this down - I would think we also need to provide carrots to nudge him in this direction (would not be surprised if this was happening in backchannels), not just sticks, but be ready to wack him and wack him hard should he try to expand this (also conveyed by the same back channels).
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I hear you, but I think this conflict has made any "carrots" for an easy and face-saving retreat for Putin an impossibility. If he's allowed to just "pick up and leave," he will take credit for some type of bullshit false victory that he'll lie to his people about forever.

It's too late for that. The world now sees what a completely evil madman he is, and they know they're next if they do nothing. They also know that he will never stop plotting as long as he draws a breath.

On the contrary, what needs to happen is that he needs to pay a steep price for this. If he's allowed to leave, he must agree to give up Crimea and Donbas. And he himself must agree to stand trial at the Hague for war crimes. He also has to pay for reconstruction of every building and every piece of infrastructure he destroyed.

Then he goes on trial for the murder of every civilian killed in this war.

The worst thing the world can do is just let him pick up his toys and leave without paying a steep price.

Of course, this is all a silly thing to discuss. He isn't going anywhere until he's forced to leave.
 
Mingo said:
More accurately, getting shot in the back of the head for picking up your own wheat, that you planted and grew, that was stolen from you by Russia.
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Mingo, All. Let's get the terminology straight. They are Thermo Baric , not Vaccum.
Basically its a double whammy. The blast overpressure is so great it ignites the air around it. This causes lung, brain and organ damage to the point of liquifaction. Anything else is vaporized.
And yes the US has them too. Used against Al Quaeda in Torah Bora, for example.
 
Yeah I don't want him to be allowed to slink off to some sanctuary country with his billions after leaving Russia. Tired of seeing criminals and war crimes types getting away with shit after looting their country and killing their citizens.
That happens too often in the name of moving on, after the conflict is over and the rebuilding stage starts.
All that being said, my view is Putin views himself as one of the great figures in Russian history, akin to the Czars of Imperial Russia, and will go down in flames, taking whatever he needs to assure his legacy with him.
 
wanderingrichard said:
Mingo, All. Let's get the terminology straight. They are Thermo Baric , not Vaccum.
Basically its a double whammy. The blast overpressure is so great it ignites the air around it. This causes lung, brain and organ damage to the point of liquifaction. Anything else is vaporized.
And yes the US has them too. Used against Al Quaeda in Torah Bora, for example.
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Is that the 'Mother of all Bombs' thing ?
 
wanderingrichard said:
Just came in on my feed. Warning, the opening footage is very graphic:

USA TODAY: Russia's 40-mile convoy appears to have bogged down 15 miles from Kyiv; shells pound Ukrainian city of Kharkiv. Live updates..
www.usatoday.com

Biden takes aim at Putin in State of the Union; shells pound Kharkiv as Russia escalates attacks: Recap

A massive, 40-mile convoy of Russian tanks and vehicles appears to have stalled on its push toward the capital of Kyiv. Tuesday's recap.
www.usatoday.com
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This is especially telling....what it says about how this is going with regards to what the rest of the world is doing....not enough.

"To the world: what is the point of saying 'never again' for 80 years, if the world stays silent when a bomb drops on the same site of Babyn Yar?" Zerenskyy tweeted. "At least 5 killed. History repeating…"
 
Canuck from Kansas said:
Don't believe anyone is saying that, Article 5 stands, so incursion into Poland or Germany and NATO forces become involved. Unlikely that he has the military strength at this point to shift and move north to Finland or Sweden, estimates are that 50 to 60% of his ground forces are now in the south. The Swedish air force is not to be taken lightly. Also believe Putin is enough a student of history to know how disastrous a 2-front war can be.

We are already hearing verifiable stories of Russian conscripts laying down arms, sabotaging their own equipment, running out of fuel and food (an army travels on its stomach), etc. Putin has greatly miscalculated his own strength and the resolve of both the Ukrainian people and the NATO alliance - hoping the realization is sinking in and he tries to find a way of claiming victory (ie, Ukraine has no been denazified, we can leave) and shutting this down - I would think we also need to provide carrots to nudge him in this direction (would not be surprised if this was happening in backchannels), not just sticks, but be ready to wack him and wack him hard should he try to expand this (also conveyed by the same back channels).
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I hope you are right. I think one thing is clear based on what has happened so far.. pretty much everyone has been wrong.
 
wanderingrichard said:
Just came in on my feed. Warning, the opening footage is very graphic:

USA TODAY: Russia's 40-mile convoy appears to have bogged down 15 miles from Kyiv; shells pound Ukrainian city of Kharkiv. Live updates..
www.usatoday.com

Biden takes aim at Putin in State of the Union; shells pound Kharkiv as Russia escalates attacks: Recap

A massive, 40-mile convoy of Russian tanks and vehicles appears to have stalled on its push toward the capital of Kyiv. Tuesday's recap.
www.usatoday.com
Click to expand...
Russia may have forgotten what happened to the Germans when the fields thawed & they had to stay on the roads as everything else was to muddy for travel in WW2. this may happen again.
 
wanderingrichard said:
No, that's a different bomb entirely. Think 30,000 lb. bomb (weight of load of explosives) dropped from a C-17 or C5 via parachute. Not much would survive that, either
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Thanks
 
clarkman said:
"To the world: what is the point of saying 'never again' for 80 years, if the world stays silent when a bomb drops on the same site of Babyn Yar?" Zerenskyy tweeted. "At least 5 killed. History repeating…"
Click to expand...


at which point does the sobering thought of, "this might be his last tweet" go through people's minds...shitty time....
 
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