Tuna 2024
- Thread starter SilverFly
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SilverFly
Legend
Yes, it has been done with a Crease Fly.
It should be noted, probably multiple times, and long ago, that we're hardly the first ones doing this FF thing for albacore. What Nick has accomplished is to develop a successful albacore FF charter strategy. No small feat, and something I thought would never happen a few years ago. Basically changing fly rods from "fairy wands" to viable tools on the albacore grounds.
Anyway, among others, Jay Nicholas at the Caddis Fly has fly fished albacore for many years, and has a Crease Fly tying vid. Safe bet the 1st PNW fly rod albacore was caught from a surf dory decades ago.
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SilverFly
Legend
OK, you can just stop there mister! I have way too much on my plate right now to go down any OCD fly tying rabbit holes.
By "too much on your plate", meaning other OCD fly tying rabbit holes concurrently?OK, you can just stop there mister! I have way too much on my plate right now to go down any OCD fly tying rabbit holes.
SilverFly
Legend
No. Like getting ready to move in a few weeks... well that, and squeeze in some short jaunts up a local river whenever it rains. Also have a crap ton of brined tuna to smoke.
Maybe.
This is purely anecdotal but it seems when casting for albacore that they don't like dead/wounded/static presented flies as much as they do constantly moving "healthy" ones. SRC and coho seem to whack flies on the pause more often than not, and I've done ok with sliders and poppers, but albacore seem to want no pause in the strip and while I've tried letting a fly hang and fishing it I've never hooked up doing so. Meanwhile, on the next cast I presented a constantly moving fly and got hit very quickly.
Except I had a static fly get demolished near the surface this year. I think anymore that 1 to even 4 or 5 trips a year for albacore is not enough to draw many conclusions about their behavior and reactions to flies and fly fishing techniques. But it is sure fun to think about and debate.
SilverFly
Legend
The situation Saturday was bizarre. As I remember the other times I've seen them feeding boat side like that, they weren't nearly as finicky with regard to flies. Like you say, a steady/minimal pause retrieve seems to work best. For some reason on Saturday, they were fixated on dead, or near-dead floating anchovy. I would've bet my fly box that they'd have hammered a realistic floating imitation. I mean, it can't be a smell thing when they hit it at warp speed like that. So weird. Like Nick said, anchovy aren't even normal prey offshore!
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SilverFly
Legend
Couple more thoughts on this. In my experience this is true - with fish at or near the boat. I can't argue with Nick's success casting shallow, or his reasoning that tuna coming near the surface are on a "murder mission" for something that moves like it's alive. The exception being a fly that's well away from the boat, deeper, and just hanging. Whether distance, depth, or both, is the key I can't say, but I've had consistent enough success to say it works.
All I do know is that I have to maximize my opportunities out there. At least until I can get somewhat closer to Nick's casting success. I'm also not running the boat, so have the luxury of trying different, frequently unsuccessful stuff. Fortunately a few things have worked, and over the past 2-3 years I've stumbled on what I call "drift jigging". Nothing new, just wind trolling with some rod action, letting the fly line out, sometimes all 150' of the Air Flo Depthfinder, and just drifting.
Doing this has accounted for about half the fish I've hooked the past 2 years. A few grabs have come with the line just trailing, but usually giving it some action in addition to the wind drift - which can be a pretty good clip some days. Typically I'll sweep the rod to one side about 45° in 3 or 4 slow/steady "pulses", then pause, and let the rod sweep back, to pointing straight at the line. Most grabs come on the 1st or 2nd pulse but seems like the main key is to maintain some drift tension on the line at all times. So the fly is always moving, just at different rates.
Whether this "pulsing" works because it imitates the jet motion of a squid, or whatever, I'll never know. What I do know, is every minute out there is gold, and I'm going to have a fly in the water as much as possible. If there are no fish at the boat, no chum in the water, and nothing on the sounder, then a Hail Mary drift make a lot more sense than blind casting/retrieving. It's paid off enough times I haven't found a reason to stop. YMMV.
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@Irafly will hate me but at the risk of sounding old school, on my 2-3 albacore trips a year, I want those fish hitting a moving fly I am actively working over something under an indicator. As effective as that may be. I want the line and potentially the rod ripped from my hand. I honestly don’t need 15+ albacore to eat a year. I give most of my share away to boat mates if they want it on my trips, and more to neighbors and friends when I get home. Not a purist, actually fished more conventional gear this year than I have in 25, but to me, the power of that initial strike, even on the troll is what is need from tuna.
I’m an amateur compared to many in these trips having only been out 6 or 8 times but I also think crippled live bait is one thing. Crippled artificial is another. In a frenzy I think a lot of techniques will work. When they are up and not hitting stripped flies, not sure an under a bobber presentation is the game changer. Last year in trip we had fish busting dead bait, live bait, etc all around the boat. A live bait rig worked, a swim bait worked steady worked. Flies presented from 4 pretty solid fly fisherman were ignored completely. Nick was onboard as an advisor that trip so can’t recall if he cast a fly or not. I do recall he threw out a live bait rig as a test and got hammered immediately. Same pattern happened every stop.
@SilverFly I’ve seen that technique work in person from you. Wonder if it’s always squid or has worked with baitfish too.
I’m an amateur compared to many in these trips having only been out 6 or 8 times but I also think crippled live bait is one thing. Crippled artificial is another. In a frenzy I think a lot of techniques will work. When they are up and not hitting stripped flies, not sure an under a bobber presentation is the game changer. Last year in trip we had fish busting dead bait, live bait, etc all around the boat. A live bait rig worked, a swim bait worked steady worked. Flies presented from 4 pretty solid fly fisherman were ignored completely. Nick was onboard as an advisor that trip so can’t recall if he cast a fly or not. I do recall he threw out a live bait rig as a test and got hammered immediately. Same pattern happened every stop.
@SilverFly I’ve seen that technique work in person from you. Wonder if it’s always squid or has worked with baitfish too.
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I've only got one fly trip under my belt but the troll strike while holding the rod (vs. responding to a screaming rod in a holder) is definitely addicting and I can still re-feel and re-see the entire experience of the one that I got while stripping in on the slide. Fingers crossed for the 23rd!
Ultimately albacore WILL eat just about anything at one point or another. I've seen an albacore eat an unlit cigarette, and I've seen them come out of the water to eat cedar plugs that were hanging on outriggers completely above the water. However those are awfully rare circumstances.
Why they will eat a dead anchovy at times but ignore a fly is anyone's guess. It's not all that uncommon for them to be that fired up, but also that "selective". Is there a fly/technique that is likely to catch one here and there in those scenarios, of course. However I strongly believe there is no dead drifted, or statically fished pattern that is ever going to be lights out in that scenario either.
IME one is far better off focusing on fishing aggressively with a moving pattern and continuing to look for/focus on those scenarios where the fish are up and feeding rather than spend time and energy focusing on trying to catch a single fish using a technique that is likely to work once in a while at best.
Obviously it has to be some sort of a visual trigger that gets them to gobble a dead anchovy but ignore a fly, and the only thing I can guess is that to their eye the difference must be obvious. Otherwise I'd have to think I'd have caught fish on one of my many failed topwater pattern attempts, or in a scenario where my topwater pattern that has showed success is just sitting, as I've made a lot of effort to that end. I have a hunch that it may be as simple as they can tell the real thing from an imitation in spite of our best efforts. Along those same lines I think that's partly why a moving fly can be effective, as I imagine the movement makes it just a bit more difficult for them to notice the difference between the real thing and an imitation, and I believe movement will at times trigger a quick response of a fish happens to be charging up at the time a fly is nearby. I've just never seen any evidence that fishing anything statically, up to and including dead bait, is anything close to a consistent producer.
At the end of the day I compare it to fishing for staging coho vs fishing for traveling/feeding coho. Yeah, a fly angler can spend countless hours flailing away, trying new techniques, and new patterns, and will sooner or later encounter that odd 17 minute window where those damn fish will bite, but I think searching for and targeting fish that are traveling and feeding is a far more effective use of my time.
I do have the advantage of being out there every day and can spend more time experimenting, but on a single day charter trip it's hard for me to get excited about spending time mucking about trying to catch a single fish when I am comfortable with techniques that can/will catch multiple.
I believe I hooked 4 fish that last stop when the fish were eating the dead chovies, so while it wasn't easy considering how aggressive the fish appeared to be from our perspective, I do believe that fishing aggressively and trying to trigger a strike from one of those fish that was coming up at the right time is a better use of time.
Still, it's all certainly fun to think about, and who doesn't love a good rabbit hole
Why they will eat a dead anchovy at times but ignore a fly is anyone's guess. It's not all that uncommon for them to be that fired up, but also that "selective". Is there a fly/technique that is likely to catch one here and there in those scenarios, of course. However I strongly believe there is no dead drifted, or statically fished pattern that is ever going to be lights out in that scenario either.
IME one is far better off focusing on fishing aggressively with a moving pattern and continuing to look for/focus on those scenarios where the fish are up and feeding rather than spend time and energy focusing on trying to catch a single fish using a technique that is likely to work once in a while at best.
Obviously it has to be some sort of a visual trigger that gets them to gobble a dead anchovy but ignore a fly, and the only thing I can guess is that to their eye the difference must be obvious. Otherwise I'd have to think I'd have caught fish on one of my many failed topwater pattern attempts, or in a scenario where my topwater pattern that has showed success is just sitting, as I've made a lot of effort to that end. I have a hunch that it may be as simple as they can tell the real thing from an imitation in spite of our best efforts. Along those same lines I think that's partly why a moving fly can be effective, as I imagine the movement makes it just a bit more difficult for them to notice the difference between the real thing and an imitation, and I believe movement will at times trigger a quick response of a fish happens to be charging up at the time a fly is nearby. I've just never seen any evidence that fishing anything statically, up to and including dead bait, is anything close to a consistent producer.
At the end of the day I compare it to fishing for staging coho vs fishing for traveling/feeding coho. Yeah, a fly angler can spend countless hours flailing away, trying new techniques, and new patterns, and will sooner or later encounter that odd 17 minute window where those damn fish will bite, but I think searching for and targeting fish that are traveling and feeding is a far more effective use of my time.
I do have the advantage of being out there every day and can spend more time experimenting, but on a single day charter trip it's hard for me to get excited about spending time mucking about trying to catch a single fish when I am comfortable with techniques that can/will catch multiple.
I believe I hooked 4 fish that last stop when the fish were eating the dead chovies, so while it wasn't easy considering how aggressive the fish appeared to be from our perspective, I do believe that fishing aggressively and trying to trigger a strike from one of those fish that was coming up at the right time is a better use of time.
Still, it's all certainly fun to think about, and who doesn't love a good rabbit hole
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SilverFly
Legend
I'm sure I've tried it with baitfish patterns, and vaguely remember a fish or two, but I fish a squid something like 90% the last few years.
SilverFly
Legend
Ultimately albacore WILL eat just about anything at one point or another. I've seen an albacore eat an unlit cigarette, and I've seen them come out of the water to eat cedar plugs that were hanging on outriggers completely above the water. However those are awfully rare circumstances.
Why they will eat a dead anchovy at times but ignore a fly is anyone's guess. It's not all that uncommon for them to be that fired up, but also that "selective". Is there a fly/technique that is likely to catch one here and there in those scenarios, of course. However I strongly believe there is no dead drifted, or statically fished pattern that is ever going to be lights out in that scenario either.
IME one is far better off focusing on fishing aggressively with a moving pattern and continuing to look for/focus on those scenarios where the fish are up and feeding rather than spend time and energy focusing on trying to catch a single fish using a technique that is likely to work once in a while at best.
Obviously it has to be some sort of a visual trigger that gets them to gobble a dead anchovy but ignore a fly, and the only thing I can guess is that to their eye the difference must be obvious. Otherwise I'd have to think I'd have caught fish on one of my many failed topwater pattern attempts, or in a scenario where my topwater pattern that has showed success is just sitting, as I've made a lot of effort to that end. I have a hunch that it may be as simple as they can tell the real thing from an imitation in spite of our best efforts. Along those same lines I think that's partly why a moving fly can be effective, as I imagine the movement makes it just a bit more difficult for them to notice the difference between the real thing and an imitation, and I believe movement will at times trigger a quick response of a fish happens to be charging up at the time a fly is nearby. I've just never seen any evidence that fishing anything statically, up to and including dead bait, is anything close to a consistent producer.
At the end of the day I compare it to fishing for staging coho vs fishing for traveling/feeding coho. Yeah, a fly angler can spend countless hours flailing away, trying new techniques, and new patterns, and will sooner or later encounter that odd 17 minute window where those damn fish will bite, but I think searching for and targeting fish that are traveling and feeding is a far more effective use of my time.
I do have the advantage of being out there every day and can spend more time experimenting, but on a single day charter trip it's hard for me to get excited about spending time mucking about trying to catch a single fish when I am comfortable with techniques that can/will catch multiple.
I believe I hooked 4 fish that last stop when the fish were eating the dead chovies, so while it wasn't easy considering how aggressive the fish appeared to be from our perspective, I do believe that fishing aggressively and trying to trigger a strike from one of those fish that was coming up at the right time is a better use of time.
Still, it's all certainly fun to think about, and who doesn't love a good rabbit hole
Nick,
Hope my comments didn't come off as questioning your methods or thoughts. Your approach to staying on the move looking for willing players is clearly a successful strategy. As we say in my line of work: If it ain't broke don't fix it ... and don't fix it 'til it's broke. My experience is a tiny fraction of yours, but I've seen enough variation in aggressiveness from one stop to another, to say they can almost seem like different species. So yeah, if one school isn't playing well, better to hunt for the next.
While it's probably a good thing to have another tool in the box, I really need to spend more time up front taking notes on your cast/retrieve technique at the bow. Sometimes a tough choice for me to commit to that. I like dragging flies far and deep (relatively speaking on a fast drift), because that's what I have confidence in. Well that, and I still have some fixation on getting "stupid deep" (no need to re-visit that rabbit hole
). Still blows me away to see you casting on the downwind side, and consistently hooking up. Even on a moderate drift I feel like I barely have time to retrieve before the boat is on top of the fly.So a note to self for next year: If I'm fishing the 14wt aft, I should have my best casting rod ready at the bow. The 13wt Sage would've been a far better choice, and maybe with a better casting line than the 700gr DF, since depth clearly isn't the issue with aggressive fish.
Anyway, it was great to have you back at the helm this year. Hopefully I can get out next year for 3 trips minimum, and maybe 5+ if I can pull it off - don't say I didn't warn you
.
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Except last year, I got two of my fish from the bow that way.
SilverFly
Legend
Except last year, I got two of my fish from the bow that way.
I've caught plenty doing that. What Nick is helping me see, is that it's likely unnecessary in most situations. Aggressive albacore bent on eating something aren't going to be put off by the fly being too shallow.
That doesn't mean I'll stop stack mending if there are less aggressive fish on the sounder that are hesitating to come up. I want a fly in their faces even as we get back on the troll. More than once that's resulted in a hookup as the engines kick into gear.
Nick,
Hope my comments didn't come off as questioning your methods or thoughts. Your approach to staying on the move looking for willing players is clearly a successful strategy. As we say in my line of work: If it ain't broke don't fix it ... and don't fix it 'til it's broke. My experience is a tiny fraction of yours, but I've seen enough variation in aggressiveness from one stop to another, to say they can almost seem like different species. So yeah, if one school isn't playing well, better to hunt for the next.
While it's probably a good thing to have another tool in the box, I really need to spend more time up front taking notes on your cast/retrieve technique at the bow. Sometimes a tough choice for me to commit to that. I like dragging flies far and deep (relatively speaking on a fast drift), because that's what I have confidence in. Well that, and I still have some fixation on getting "stupid deep" (no need to re-visit that rabbit hole
So a note to self for next year: If I'm fishing the 14wt aft, I should have my best casting rod ready at the bow. The 13wt Sage would've been a far better choice, and maybe with a better casting line than the 700gr DF, since depth clearly isn't the issue with aggressive fish.
Anyway, it was great to have you back at the helm this year. Hopefully I can get out next year for 3 trips minimum, and maybe 5+ if I can pull it off - don't say I didn't warn you
It would be nice to be able to easily switch between 2-3 rods while on a trip. I could see using a rod with a Leviathan line for trolling, switching to a rod with an intermediate sink tip for bait stops, and if the tuna are really aggressive, switching to a rod with a floating line at a bait stop for poppers. But I'd be reluctant to take the time to go into the cabin and pull out another rod out of its case to switch.
Wonder if Nick would consider adding fly rod holders somewhere on the boat? Or that might be overkill?
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