Tribes fish and WDFW roll over again.

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Dustin Chromers said:
It would be a pretty tough sell to turn me into a WDFW boot licker. Looks good on some though.
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I’m not saying that anyone should support WDFW blindly. I said someone needs to correct misinformation and help the average angler learn the basic facts. Which is exactly what I wrote. The fact that you and Rob interpreted my comment differently demonstrates part of the problem. Both of you interpreted my comment as something completely different from what I said.
 
Matt Paluch said:
I’m not saying that anyone should support WDFW blindly. I said someone needs to correct misinformation and help the average angler learn the basic facts. Which is exactly what I wrote. The fact that you and Rob interpreted my comment differently demonstrates part of the problem. Both of you interpreted my comment as something completely different from what I said.
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Interpretation is the responsibility of two parties in any exchange. Clear and concise communication by the speaker and listening carefully without bias before the message is delivered by the listener.

For the record I used to be far more supportive of the WDFW and saw them between a rock and a hard place policy wise. Over the years after seeing ineffective leadership and a completely idiotic social media campaign the message is clear. I've interpreted these things in a way that gives me zero confidence in their ability to carry forth any mission without turning it into a complete shit show at the cost of fish, anglers, taxpayers, and the general public minus the eager bird watching boot licking minions that just love their new direction and amazing Facebook posts about butterflies and salamanders. Their defenders are just simply the most sentient, smartest, and knowledgeable of all Washingtonians, just ask them, they will tell you. Meanwhile they have abandoned those problematic sportsmen for the funding and love of a cohort that is equally out of touch with some individuals as exceptions.
 
O' Clarkii Stomias said:
Treaty rights. Also. Gillnets for Chinook= Diminished "B"-runs.
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Hmm state of Washington doesn't care about rights...
Close tribal fishing on that section of water a very short section from May- October budget for the lawsuit.
If the tribes cared more about the fish like they claim they wouldn't fish there anyway.

The fact that gillnets are even allowed on the Columbia, tribal or commercial shows how little backbone WDFW has.

But I'm not nuanced enough, just ignorant and malinformed.

Again, my ONLY point is that the solutions are typically pretty simple, there's just no will to do the right thing..
 
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I might not agree on some of the policies, but I gotta give MattP credit for calmly responding to all the posts, some of which were a bit aggressive.

I think in the end we all want the same thing, we just have different ways of getting there. Or in this case, what we feel like agencies should be doing.
 
Yard Sale said:
I might not agree on some of the policies, but I gotta give MattP credit for calmly responding to all the posts, some of which were a bit aggressive.

I think in the end we all want the same thing, we just have different ways of getting there. Or in this case, what we feel like agencies should be doing.
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You're probably right. It's just so frustrating to see the great work of all the bios be wasted by an incompetent and uncaring bureaucracy.
My apologies to Matt.
 
_WW_ said:
How many of you guys complaining in this thread have attended Commissioner's meetings to voice your concerns?
How many have attended any NOF meetings?
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For decades I attended commission meetings to give and witness to public input on rule making. Spent years writing the commission about various topics when they "sought" such input.
Spent six months working directly with WDFW staff as part of a work group for wild steelhead worked on habitat restoration with WDFW and Federal agencies.

Working with the WDFW staff in the field is awesome... as soon an you get to managers and decision making.. at least in region 5 and at the commission level, the term worthless comes to mind.

Region 5 fish biologists have always been awesome. One of them, I believe is now in Olympia and is in charge of everything steelhead.
 
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Rob Allen said:
For decades I attended commission meetings to give and witness to public input on rule making. Spent years writing the commission about various topics when they "sought" such input.
Spent six months working directly with WDFW staff as part of a work group for wild steelhead worked on habitat restoration with WDFW and Federal agencies.

Working with the WDFW staff in the field is awesome... as soon an you get to managers and decision making.. at least in region 5 and at the commission level, the term worthless comes to mind.

Region 5 fish biologists have always been awesome. One of them, I believe is now in Olympia and is in charge of everything steelhead.
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Ok...that's 1
 
So we got two...that don't go anymore. That ought to Git-er-Done.

Nothing slams the door on these WDFW rant threads quicker than suggesting folks get involved and put there time where their mouth is.

Lucky for me, I and a few others stuck with it for 6 years which gave me the opportunity to flip my boat on the Sauk last week!
 
_WW_ said:
So we got two...that don't go anymore. That ought to Git-er-Done.

Nothing slams the door on these WDFW rant threads quicker than suggesting folks get involved and put there time where their mouth is.

Lucky for me, I and a few others stuck with it for 6 years which gave me the opportunity to flip my boat on the Sauk last week!
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The only problem is that the Skagit never should have been closed in the first place.
 
I Think that when siscussing the Elwah, we should all be sure to understand the point that @Smalma made about saltwater harvest.
When talking about PS fisheries, ask yourself what you would propose that WDFW do. Then, try to figure out what the actual end result would be. I don't think that the results of seeking a permit alone for PS chinook would go too well.
The fact is that WDFW does not manage fisheries on their own. More and more, any fishery is manage with the approval of the feds. It isn't 1985. The department does not have the ability to do what they want without oversight and approval. Any choice made has the potential for a whole host of negative byproducts. This gets to @Matt Paluch point regarding misinformation. The department is very poor at communicating. They struggle to communicate the reasoning behind their decisions and to educate the public on the permitting paradigm that they find themselves in.
In the end, they appear impotent. That is because they are impotent, having had their berries removed through ESA linstings and politics. While I understand the sentiment that they should grow a pair and fight for fishing oportunities, I also am sure to remember that we'rs asking them to attend a gun fight, armed with a butter knife. At least no one would be able to shoot their nuts off.
 
Rob Allen said:
The only problem is that the Skagit never should have been closed in the first place.
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Please inform everyone as to how WDFW erred their.
I have struggled for a long time understanding how to blame wdfw for that PS steelhead listing.
 
Paige said:
Stop caving in and grow a pair, they need to force the issue at NOF. If we lose a season waiting for a separate approval so be it. It's not like we would miss much.
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Everyone involved realizes that refusing to piggyback on the tribes' permit, sitting out NOF, and shutting down all non-tribal fishing outside of lakes would threaten the current status quo, which is precisely why it'll never happen.
 
Matt Paluch said:
Last time I checked it wasn't the tribes who destroyed the salmon runs. It seems pretty ridiculous to complain about them getting to fish first.
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Asking people to consider the impact of non-tribal harvest of anadromous fish in marine waters in the present is probably going to be a more effective tactic for persuading people to adopt a fair and judicious view of tribal-fisheries than invoking heritable collective guilt for events that transpired in the past. If that's your goal.
 
JayB said:
Everyone involved realizes that refusing to piggyback on the tribes' permit, sitting out NOF, and shutting down all non-tribal fishing outside of lakes would threaten the current status quo, which is precisely why it'll never happen.
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Which is precisely why we need to do it, nothing will change unless we take that hit!
 
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