Simms Disappointment

These days its just these Big Money Deals designed to make the employees rich at the cost of me!!! I always let a store know I ain't paying for anything unless I know they're losing money on it!!!
 
Who can afford Simms I already gave up my kids to Simms when they first came out with Zipper Front waders which didn't last long either before leaking that's when I had two good legs an could fish rivers.
 
The only acquisition I can think of a decently operated company purchased by a much larger company that resulted in a positive outcome was Garmin's acquisition of the Delorme GPS satellite transceiver company. I've had units from both Delorme and Garmin, and the product line (and customer support) has been much improved by Garmin. It's notable that Garmin isn't PE (it's publicly traded) and the Delorme technology was something closely related to Garmin core business technology focus. I was relieved that Garmin didn't buy a competitor to kill it but rather to gain access to some very useful satellite communication patents and access to a satellite communication system. I don't believe Garmin had any communication capability prior to the acquisition.

So many acquisitions follow the PE model mentioned previously in this thread; acquire, skeletonize, and spend down customer goodwill that took years to establish. PE partners are seldom motivated by any sort of personal affinity for the company's products...they're solely interested in a very high rate of return by any means and then moving on to the next available 'opportunity'....frequently a successful company whose founder(s) want to 'cash out' of the business for any variety of reasons.

Hobie is a good example. While Hobie products have always been pricey they were also innovative and supported by steady improvement and decent dealer/customer support. That all ended when the firm was purchased by two successive PE ownerships, which proceeded to run the operation into the ground by abusing dealerships and customers.

Hobie has now been purchased by Bass Pro and all of its manufacturing equipment has been moved out of Mexico (where it was relocated from Southern CA by the PE owners) and into Bass Pro's White River boat manufacturing facility in Missouri. While I'm not optimistic that Bass Pro will ever resurrect Hobie's former innovative approach I'm somewhat hopeful that they'll support neglected customers and the Hobie dealerships. I've talked to several Hobie dealerships who are actually relieved regarding the acquisition because they're starting to receive some Bass Pro Hobie kayaks and parts inventory after years of abuse by the PE owners, and I've looked at a few Hobie kayaks being sold at Cabela's and can't really see any difference in quality.

I don't see Bass Pro continuing to offer the really high-end 360 drive kayaks that have proven to be very problematic due to their mechanical complexity, but Bass Pro says it will honor Hobie's warranties for those boats. I think they'll stick to marketing Hobie's far more established and reliable lower-end models. Maybe I'm wrong because bass fishing from kayaks has become a big deal in many parts of the US, with kayak bass fishin' folk spending huge sums on all sorts of exotic kayaks.

At least Bass Pro isn't a PE outfit and it's privately held by a longtime owner that's alleged to be a fishing fanatic. I've heard Cabela's went to hell (especially regarding warranties) when they were purchased by Bass Pro, but I don't personally know that's true because I never frequented Cabela's all that much. I do know that a great many firms have stepped back from warranties in general...largely because of customer abuse.

Time will tell......greed alters most things.
 
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does the PE model call for finding great businesses with great brands? i think it calls for finding bad businesses with good to great brands - then buying low because the sellers are distressed - then extracting value from the brand faster than consumers can get wise.

"profit" gets used as a pejorative in these contexts because the PE folks are vampires for whom it is only about profit. but it's not as if simms thought they were running a non-profit. if the business were a success (versus just the product and brand), i bet the pricetag would have precluded the vampires.
 
Beware of plumbing, electrical, and HVAC companies that have been bought out by PE. They give 3-4 fold higher quotes than locally owned businesses.
 
fatbillybob said:
Very few things aren't made in china even with brand names like simms or north face stuck on there. The brand name can up the quality with the chinese if they want. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't.

Amazon and costco are brutal on their suppliers because they have so much distribution and pricing power. That's why return polices seem to always favor the consumer. China product suppliers know this and can't afford massive returns. Some returns yes but on balance suppliers have to make a profit. Chinese waders on Amazon work because the vendors can't afford for them not to work. I have had 3 sets and each pair have lasted about 3 years and this 3rd set is on year 4 seeing 2-3x/week outings in the surf. The last set were the most expensive just under $100. If they fail fast just initiate a return.

I have had old simms guide waders and silver labels from orvis and they all eventually leak. Spending 3x more does not mean they last 3x as long.
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Hey FBB: can you send me a link on those Chinese waders that have been working for you. I am Looking for 5 layer stocking foot wader to replace my Paramount zipper waders which failed with light use in 15 months. Thanks!
 
Reeltrout said:
Hey FBB: can you send me a link on those Chinese waders that have been working for you. I am Looking for 5 layer stocking foot wader to replace my Paramount zipper waders which failed with light use in 15 months. Thanks!
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Sheez....my paramount pant waders used 2-3x a week in surf are on year 4! That's what I got from Amazon and my last paramount was 3 years old before leaks
 
Evan B said:
I'm not aware of any such examples.
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Aren't there some examples where the employees acquired the company once the value dropped low enough? I sort of remember a story about a factory in Greece that the workers took over and shared profits. Was Sportsman's Warehouse acquired by the workers?
 
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Zak said:
Aren't there a some examples where the employees acquired the company once the value stopped low enough? I sort of remember a story about a factory in Greece that the workers took over and shared profits. Was Sportsman's Warehouse acquired by the workers?
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My neighbor sold his tech company to his employees. Win win for all.
 
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Zak said:
Aren't there some examples where the employees acquired the company once the value dropped low enough? I sort of remember a story about a factory in Greece that the workers took over and shared profits. Was Sportsman's Warehouse acquired by the workers?
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Not SW: 2009: Sportsman's Warehouse emerged from bankruptcy and was acquired by the private equity firm, The Blackstone Group. The acquisition was intended to help stabilize the company and support its growth.[5]
 
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