OP Closures

It does seem like the Tribes are having an undue amount of influence over the WDFW co-managers, but I think something less nefarious (but equally detrimental to sport opportunity) is happening.

It's understood that the Tribes see a fish as a fish, no matter how many fins it has, so they don't plan their fisheries around ensuring wild escapement. Basically, I imagine they do it the same way they always have: they go fishing for whatever they think they can catch. I don't think they are telling WDFW what to do; rather, they're telling WDFW what THEY plan to do, and letting WDFW do what they want with the sport fishery in light of that. In most cases, when runs are underperforming, WDFW's practice has been to find out what the Tribes are doing, do some math, to see if what the Tribes are doing is likely to save enough WILD fish so we can have a sport fishery, then make a decision. Their usual M.O. when the Tribal fishery doesn't leave enough wild fish on the table, rather than crafting whatever other fisheries might be sustainable, is to simply shut us down. I do think this is a lazy way to handle things, but it's low-risk and low-effort.

If they held the same views WDFW does on wild fish management, the Tribes probably wouldn't be fishing now either. Their indifference to the distinction between wild and hatchery fish enables them to come up with enough fish to justify a fishery, even in slow years, time and time again. Perhaps it's by design, but I kind of doubt it... or maybe I just don't want to believe it is....

Anyway, I think it's absolutely fair to say the current paradigm is not very close to what could be called "co-management." Whether it's intentional or not, one manager is eating the whole pie right now.
 
We have changes in administration coming soon. Be ready to consider all sides and avoid the one sideness.
 
Being lazy is a good description of this situation!

Unfortunately, being lazy and apathic can equally applied to the recreational community which makes it easy for the State to go down this path. The inability of the recreational community to mount even a minimal effort to protect these fisheries, or demanding WDWF commission policies place a priority of maintaining game fish season including reserving precious salmon impacts to provide game fish opportunities. In the processes that set salmon seasons and the use of those impacts while far from ideal sees minimal effort of the game fish users to advocate for their uses and even few have stepped up as advisors in agency advisor groups.

Just imagine how the river game fish users could potentially be if just a tiny per centage of them engaged with the state expressing their concerns, potential alternatives etc. I would challenge the 18 or so of this sites membership who have commented on this tread to take the time to send an email to the state expressing their concerns and maybe even ask friends to do the same.

We have been losing game fish opportunities in this way for more than a decade and we can expect that the erosion of game fish opportunities on anadromous waters (including marine waters) will continue.

Curt
 
I was one of the first people to get FMLA when my son was born. Almost nobody who already has kids was happy for me. It is an American flaw to not be happy for something that doesn’t directly benefit you.

These closures blow.


Yep, absolutely. These particular ones don't impact me but plenty of them do. No matter how you slice it losing fishing opportunities sucks, plain and simple.
 

Not the OP, but tribes are "saving" salmon on the Nooksak by banning kids from using inner tubes.
 
Force the tribes to fish with traditionally made materials/equipment and methods…
The cultural experience is what they claim is needed.
Hold them to it…!!!
 
If I am reading this correctly, the Indian nations are co-managers through Case Law and through signed treaties.
Thank you for offering an attempt at clarification. However, please note that I didn't say the treaty tribes are not co-managers. Rather, WDFW is abdicating its co-management role so that the tribes may dictate the recreational fishing regulations. Let me put this another way: if WDFW were to tell the tribes how to manage their fishery, the tribes would tell WDFW to go pound sand. Yet when the tribe(s) tell WDFW how to manage the non-treaty recreational fsihery, WDFW responds with, "Well, OK, sure, if that's what you prefer." That is not co-management; that is defacto management of non-treaty fishing by treaty tribes, which is not part of any court decision or case law. And that is why I posted as I did. I'm not at all opposed to treaty fishing nor to co-management. I am opposed to the tail wagging the dog.

I'm fairly familiar with US v WA. I've read the entirety of Boldt's decision and a majority of the post-proceeding orders. I testified in Boldt's court (on behalf of tribes) in one of those post-proceeding actions.
 
Being lazy is a good description of this situation!

Unfortunately, being lazy and apathic can equally applied to the recreational community which makes it easy for the State to go down this path. The inability of the recreational community to mount even a minimal effort to protect these fisheries, or demanding WDWF commission policies place a priority of maintaining game fish season including reserving precious salmon impacts to provide game fish opportunities. In the processes that set salmon seasons and the use of those impacts while far from ideal sees minimal effort of the game fish users to advocate for their uses and even few have stepped up as advisors in agency advisor groups.

Just imagine how the river game fish users could potentially be if just a tiny per centage of them engaged with the state expressing their concerns, potential alternatives etc. I would challenge the 18 or so of this sites membership who have commented on this tread to take the time to send an email to the state expressing their concerns and maybe even ask friends to do the same.

We have been losing game fish opportunities in this way for more than a decade and we can expect that the erosion of game fish opportunities on anadromous waters (including marine waters) will continue.

Curt
I won't speak for everyone else here, but this is one former activist who won't be expending any more precious energy on appealing to an agency that simply refuses to listen or try anything new.

I used to believe that if we just got involved and raised our voices, we could change things. Then, I spent several years trying. Now, I understand the reality, which is that sport fishers in general comprise only about 10% of the population (which leaves about 1% who will be willing to get involved). Even 10% is not a critical mass, so put simply, even if we COULD all get behind an agenda, our interests wouldn't matter.

Then, there is lobbying. Commercial processors are a lot better at that than we are ($$$), so they will always get first consideration when planning fisheries.

And, oh yeah, I'm not convinced the Tribes are pushing WDFW around, but if they are, there is nothing to be done about it, and we are that much more assuredly screwed.

Better at this point to just shut up and go fishing while there's still something open. And, judging from the way things are going, I had better hurry.
 
Forcing the tribes to do something they don't want to do.....sounds vaguely familiar....
Does it…??
Did you have any hand in doing so?

Neither did I.
But, y’all up there need to hold them actionable and accountable to their claims.
 
Pretty sure Finluver is done responding.
His 1-liners never make it pass the sniff test.
It is hard having something you love taken from you, passion is powerful. Sprinkle ontop the input of this thread and a fishing forum. Do not mock.
 
Pretty sure Finluver is done responding.
His 1-liners never make it pass the sniff test.
Hardly…

Time to go Bud Light on the tribes.
Hit em where it hurts…financially.
Quit buying their crap and quit going to their casinos.
Let me wither on the vine and dwindle in numbers…just like the the salmon and steelhead runs they are decimating.

At the very least, y’all have grounds to hold them the letter of the treaty/court rulings… and to the conservation of the fish runs.

Or, ya can just recycle this piss and moan thread on a yearly basis.
 
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