Ocean Coho Leaders

[Wanative]

Early season 15 lb Seaguar STS fluorocarbon. Still got snapped off by a king, but part of that was my fault. I’ll bump it up to 17 lb come mid month.
The fish aren’t leader shy, so use whatever leader material and lb test you’d prefer.
SF

Do you use a straight shot Brian or a heavy butt section to the fly line.
Also do you use a loop to loop leader to fly line connection?

 

[SurfnFish]

ever since I lost a big King years back when the factory loop on an intermediate line parted, now snip those loops off, install a loop made with 50# hollow braid, loop secured with 10# UG nail knots tied high and low, knots/line fused with UV, and a dab in the middle between the knots...bulletpoof.

 

[jasmillo]

I’m going to just tie overhand knots on all my connections this weekend and outfish the fuck out of all you damn knot geeks….

That said, I am still unsure how @Divad and @Greggor solution is any different than the one proposed by @Kfish and @Matt B. I’ll be analyzing that video like it’s the Zapruder film.

 

[ffb]

Had anyone used a McMahon snap from leader to fly? I've been thinking of experimenting with this to make quick fly changes. I set all my mooching gear up with these. Something like this:

 

[Divad]

In my denial of using a laptop anymore today, YouTube mobile broke it into 3 videos.

 

[G_Smolt]

I’m going to just tie overhand knots on all my connections this weekend and outfish the fuck out of all you damn knot geeks….

That said, I am still unsure how @Divad and @Greggor solution is any different than the one proposed by @Kfish and @Matt B. I’ll be analyzing that video like it’s the Zapruder film.

The short answer is - both ways are correct. The "leader loop thru flyline loop / fly thru leader loop" makes a half-twist in the loop, which has the potential to weaken the loop. Both can be turned into larks heads, which is a super-fast way to lose your entire leader. Both can also result in a "handshake connection, which is the desired outcome.
And yes, the perfection loop still sucks.

 

[Divad]

I’ll take the .00001% less strength from a half twist over the 100% bulkier connection of a lasso’d loop to loop everyday of the week.

 

[G_Smolt]

I’ll take the .00001% less strength from a half twist over the 100% bulkier connection of a lasso’d loop to loop everyday of the week.

That's my point - both ways can make a larks head - what folks seem to be calling the "lasso". The larks head can be flipped to a handshake very easily.

 

[Greggor]

That said, I am still unsure how @Divad and @Greggor solution is any different than the one proposed by @Kfish and @Matt B. I’ll be analyzing that video like it’s the Zapruder film.

I learned the error in my ways from Mike and Steven at Tedd's Sporting Goods many years ago. If it breathes like a loose figure eight handshake your good. If it clinches down, your not.

I just experimented a bit, and still can produce both results.

Perhaps Kfish and Matt B are tying it a bit differently, but I have seen connections bite right thru the coating on a flyline loop.

 

[Greggor]

That's my point - both ways can make a larks head - what folks seem to be calling the "lasso". The larks head can be flipped to a handshake very easily.

Enlightening.

 

[jasmillo]

The short answer is - both ways are correct. The "leader loop thru flyline loop / fly thru leader loop" makes a half-twist in the loop, which has the potential to weaken the loop. Both can be turned into larks heads, which is a super-fast way to lose your entire leader. Both can also result in a "handshake connection, which is the desired outcome.
And yes, the perfection loop still sucks.

Got it on the perfection loop. I’ll stop using them the day 3 lb Puget Sound coho become leader shy and stop eating flies tied to 25 lb flouro leaders .

I’ll take the .00001% less strength from a half twist over the 100% bulkier connection of a lasso’d loop to loop everyday of the week.

I’ve honestly never noticed the difference for PS applications and coho. I can see it being an issue fishing long leaders where the fly line/leader connection comes through the guides when landing fish. That never/rarely happens for coho or SRC though. Then again, I’m just a philistine weekend warrior who pays little attention to such things. At least half the time I’m still tying my fly on using an improved cinch and have never noticed a difference in results between that and a loop knot…

 

[Divad]

Got it on the perfection loop. I’ll stop using them the day 3 lb Puget Sound coho become leader shy and stop eating flies tied to 25 lb flouro leaders .



I’ve honestly never noticed the difference for PS applications and coho. I can see it being an issue fishing long leaders where the fly line/leader connection comes through the guides when landing fish. That never/rarely happens for coho or SRC though. Then again, I’m just a philistine weekend warrior who pays little attention to such things. At least half the time I’m still tying my fly on using an improved cinch and have never noticed a difference in results between that and a loop knot…

It’s very helpful when using polyleaders since those will tend to pass through eyelets. Another con over say an improved clinch to the fly line is it will inevitably cut through the fly line coating. The loop to loop, figure 8 hug tends to knot…

 

[headduck]

I use a nylon taper leader but cut it off at about 4ft and tie it to a tippet ring, estimate strength for that section is about 40lbs at the tip. Then it's about 5ft of 15lb Maxima fluorocarbon.

I feel like the 15lb straight leader cuts too much into the fly line loop.

Fluoro doesn't seat a non slip loop knot as well as nylon, I use a perfection loop most of the time now.

Think it was the difference in action?

 

[Matt B]

That's my point - both ways can make a larks head - what folks seem to be calling the "lasso". The larks head can be flipped to a handshake very easily.

Exactly, yeah you just twist it between thumb and forefinger to the correct position.
Thanks for the terminology

 

[Nick Clayton]

Are you guys actually getting broken off regularly? I literally can't think of the last fish to break me off that wasn't the result of me doing something stupid or just being lazy and fishing the same tattered piece of leader for days on end. Seems folks are pretty focused on this stuff, so maybe it's a bigger problem than I realize.

Today we caught albacore on a rod/leader/fly that was still rigged up from last year, including being looped wrong. I can only think of 2 albacore thar ever legitimately broke my leader, and one of those two was simply when loose fly line wrapped around my life jacked pull cord so I grabbed the line and broke off rather than have my jacket go poof and never hear the end of it.

I am genuinely curious if break offs are a real thing for you all, referring specifically o PS fish, cause I've just never seen that as a problem.

 

[G_Smolt]

Got it on the perfection loop. I’ll stop using them the day 3 lb Puget Sound coho become leader shy and stop eating flies tied to 25 lb flouro leaders .

Yeah, I'll be the first to admit I'm a bit of a "knot knerd". If i was forced at gunpoint to use a perfection loop, 25# is about the smallest I would use...even then, it would be Maxima UG and I would retie it after every fish.

These are the fish that dictate my knots - they have a habit of letting you know when you've made bad decisions on your connections.

 

[Matt B]

I learned the error in my ways from Mike and Steven at Tedd's Sporting Goods many years ago. If it breathes like a loose figure eight handshake your good. If it clinches down, your not.

I just experimented a bit, and still can produce both results.

Perhaps Kfish and Matt B are tying it a bit differently, but I have seen connections bite right thru the coating on a flyline loop.

I think if the leader diameter is too small, it tends to revert to larks head and cut into the coating. I also think that if the leader diameter is too small, even if you make sure it is a figure 8/handshake, it still cuts into the fly line coating. Speaking from experience here.

 

[Matt B]

Yeah, I'll be the first to admit I'm a bit of a "knot knerd". If i was forced at gunpoint to use a perfection loop, 25# is about the smallest I would use...even then, it would be Maxima UG and I would retie it after every fish.

These are the fish that dictate my knots - they have a habit of letting you know when you've made bad decisions on your connections.
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“Retie it after every fish”...priceless!!

 

[Matt B]

Are you guys actually getting broken off regularly? I literally can't think of the last fish to break me off that wasn't the result of me doing something stupid or just being lazy and fishing the same tattered piece of leader for years on end. Seems folks are pretty focused on this stuff, so maybe it's a bigger problem than I realize.

Today we caught albacore on a rod/leader/fly that was still rigged up from last year, including being looped wrong. I can only think of 2 albacore thar ever legitimately broke my leader, and one of those two was simply when loose fly line wrapped around my life jacked pull cord so I grabbed the line and broke off rather than have my jacket go poof and never hear the end of it.

I am genuinely curious if break offs are a real thing for you all, referring specifically o PS fish, cause I've just never seen that as a problem.

No, I just like systems to work correctly, like if I hang up and need to break off I want it to break off at the fly ideally, and not fvck up my fly line loop in the process.

 

[jasmillo]

Yeah, I'll be the first to admit I'm a bit of a "knot knerd". If i was forced at gunpoint to use a perfection loop, 25# is about the smallest I would use...even then, it would be Maxima UG and I would retie it after every fish.

These are the fish that dictate my knots - they have a habit of letting you know when you've made bad decisions on your connections.
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Ha, yes I am aware of your exploits up in AK. That will be the second condition in which I stop using perfection loops regularly. When I can quit my job, slap an AirTag in the sweat brim of your favorite fishing cap and regularly start fishing the water you do on a daily basis.