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Anonymous member 148
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Remember, like the last climate change thread. OK to talk about, not ok to question. You should know the rules by now @swimmy
SFR Man with a plan for a better future!
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Anonymous member 148
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I just burned 30 gallons to go pick up some shiney stones for an afternoon.Well, there went your future boat rides.
When I built my home in 2008/9, I chose a heat pump for my heating system instead of a natural gas furnace because there is no gas line out here. I really didn't give a thought to AC. For all my life, summer heat only made me think of or wish for AC 6 to 10 days a year. Not worth the investment, I thought. And now here I am, using AC for well more than 10 days for the third straight summer. I blame all those Montanans who keep harping and wishing for global warming, just cuz they have a few days each winter of 60 below zero or some such. Rob Allen moved to Montana, but one MT winter chased him right outa' there.
Seems funny to criticize solar energy, given that virtually every source of energy is derived from solar, be it dead dinosaurs, coal, natural gas, geothermal, hydro, wind. They all have their origins in solar.
Seems funny to criticize solar energy, given that virtually every source of energy is derived from solar, be it dead dinosaurs, coal, natural gas, geothermal, hydro, wind. They all have their origins in solar.
Smart choice, heat pump technology has made significant advances.
Installed a Mitsu ductless in our mountain home for the a/c side two summers ago, keeps us cool regardless of outside temp, and kept us warm when our gas furnace went on the fritz during low teen outside temps until the furnace part came in. Running off a single two pole 15 amp breaker, costs are about $20 a month running 16 hours a day on either cycle. If building a new home I would use nothing other than a heat pump, and the ductless systems are excellent for retro-fits where running hard duct is not possible..
swimmy
An honest tune with a lingering lead
Some of the people I despise the most are those who fly private while at that same time lecture about climate change. Politicians being at the top of that list.
No one is criticizing solar.
swimmy
An honest tune with a lingering lead
Of course. There is usually little room in these threads for skepticism. Either get in the circle jerk or "you are burying your head."
But it is the folks who speak up and just don't follow the narrative that make these threads entertaining though. Progressives hate when you don't think like them. For a group who loves to preach about diversity, equity, and inclusion, they are some of the least tolerant people in the world.
If you wanted to start a thread on solar, start a thread on solar. But you linked an article with a headline reading "A World Struggling to meet the challenges of climate change is more in need than ever of smart thinking about alternative energy." So really this our weekly installment of "climate change is an existential threat."
But do you really think the folks in Germany who are about to freeze to death this winter will be worried about climate change? Or how about the folks in California that might not be able to cool their house this weekend because of blackouts? Climate change is generally a problem for when you have it pretty good in life. As I mentioned to salmo, who is not inspired by our celebrity class or political elites that lecture us about this while flying around the world in private jets and hanging with the "pussy posse" on mega yachts. Because, well, we are all in this together.
I am curious though about the psychology of climate activists. How come you don't obsess over the millions of illegal immigrants sneaking across our border? Or the record inflation that is destroying our quality of life because politicians have dumped trillions of dollars of unpaid spending into the economy? Or the debt that will eventually destroy this country. Or the high crime that is plaguing our once incredible cities. Or the drugs that kill 100,000 Americans each year. Or the out of control federal gov't that has become exactly what the founding fathers warned us about?
These issues have a far greater impact on your life than temp climbing by 1 degree in the next 50 or 100 years.
Dustin Chromers
Legend
Just putting this out there so bear with me. I'm not interested in alternative energy sources and production because I'm concerned with climate change. My opinions are it's happening and there's not a thing government or industry can do about it. The ship has sailed. However, I think reducing pollution is good. Producing homegrown local energy is good. Being energy independent is good. Maybe if the narrative surrounding alternative technologies focused on the latter points above political will and broad support for development of this tech could grow without being so contentious. We will always have a need for petroleum. We won't eliminate it but we can use other forms of energy where it makes sense. Sweeping radical changes that are being proposed and legislated only hurt the regular citizens in the end. A transition if done properly can be a benefit to citizens and economically beneficial. Energy is a serious topic and as Americans we use allot of it. It shouldn't be a political whipping stick or an Achilles heel geopolitically.
I know its tongue in cheek... but we just consume like crazy and most of its useless...
We wouldnt need sooo much fuel and stuff if we didnt use so much or throw so much away.
Being green is easy... it's small personal choices and if everybody jumps in we as a species win... but itll never happen...
Just changing thermostat settings are huge... too hard, uncomfortable.
Public transportation or living near work... carpooling... ride a bike... not convienent.
My 5 year car is 5 years old... need new one... this time electric so I can feel good and get a catchy license plate while I unwittingly pass all my impacts to generation plants... the evaporating reservoir... the dirty power from out of state...the rare earth mines...the landfills... the withering salmon species...talk about ignored externalities.
We as a species have very bad habits coupled with extremely high lifestyle expectations.
We change ourselves we solve a lot of our problems.
Btw... I feel all yall are the choir... with a respect of the natural world other would surely benefit.
Pink Nighty
Legend
Thinking about it along these terms leaves precious little room for it to be monetized or for your fear to control you.
This will unfortunately never be the major narrative behind renewable energy.
OK, I think this part is simple. Activism requires a lot of time and energy. People have only so much discretionary time and resources. Consequently they choose one, maybe two, significant issues to become involved with. I chose environmental conservation generally and fish conservation specifically - or perhaps the latter one chose me; it's hard to tell. That doesn't mean that I have no concerns about immigration, inflation, crime, drugs, and dysfunctional government. And while I have crafted solutions, or partial solutions, for most of these, it turns out that they are not very popular with much of the electorate.
So I do what I can. I may invest in solar; I haven't decided yet. A friend spent about $27k this winter installing solar at his house, and he hasn't had an electric bill since March. We can all do something, but the reality is that I plan to go fishing. That is in the category of things I can do something about.
@swimmy , It would be pretty easy to counter this with examples of intolerant conservatives. I try to refrain from criticizing right-wingers on this forum, because this forum is about fishing and stoke, not culture wars or political vedettas. Do you think you could show some similar restraint? I'd certainly appreciate it. Thank you.
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Anonymous member 148
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It also gets a little old seeing the same climate change sermons every week. That's why I poke at it a few times. Just to let people know it's not an echo chamber, unless that mods want it that way. I could easily ignore and it becomes the norm, then say I could post something 'right winger' and get shouted down and run out of town. I'm not a fan of double standards.
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Anonymous member 148
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I'm in the camp of both... why can't we have both renewables and fossil fuels. Why are we being forced in one direction. I'm not anti solar either, I plan on building a food trailer this winter with a solar roof and battery bank as the main power, also a generator, so I can go more places that don't have 110 or 240 power.
I get that. I think there's is a big difference between poking at the merits of a argument and poking at the person making the argument. I had no problem with the rest of @swimmy 's post, even though I disagreed with it. It was the "Progressives hate when you don't think like them . . . they are some of the least tolerant people in the world" that stuck in my craw.
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Old406Kid
Legend
Agreed, it seems that we're in the jump off of the cliff mode right now.
The current heat wave in CA being a good example. If they can't meet their power needs right now how do they think they can move forward without massive infrastructure changes first. If they continue moving forward in their current state, adding more EV's etc., it seems that that temperature parameter will have to get lower and lower and the reduced consumption hours longer.
charles sullivan
Life of the Party
I do not hate when someone disagrees with me. I am clearly a progressive by todays politics. That broad-brush statement is as false as nearly all other broadbrush group lumping statements are. Progressives are not a homogenous group just as Christians, Yankee fans or flyfishermen are not homogenous. There is a way to make the point that I think that you are trying to make without being insulting, however, when you say X-group hates Y, you are insulting all of X-group even if all of that group does not hate Y. I have made the same type of arguments before, but now try hard to check myself and assure that is not what I'm doing.Of course. There is usually little room in these threads for skepticism. Either get in the circle jerk or "you are burying your head."
But it is the folks who speak up and just don't follow the narrative that make these threads entertaining though. Progressives hate when you don't think like them. For a group who loves to preach about diversity, equity, and inclusion, they are some of the least tolerant people in the world.
If you wanted to start a thread on solar, start a thread on solar. But you linked an article with a headline reading "A World Struggling to meet the challenges of climate change is more in need than ever of smart thinking about alternative energy." So really this our weekly installment of "climate change is an existential threat."
But do you really think the folks in Germany who are about to freeze to death this winter will be worried about climate change? Or how about the folks in California that might not be able to cool their house this weekend because of blackouts? Climate change is generally a problem for when you have it pretty good in life. As I mentioned to salmo, who is not inspired by our celebrity class or political elites that lecture us about this while flying around the world in private jets and hanging with the "pussy posse" on mega yachts. Because, well, we are all in this together.
I am curious though about the psychology of climate activists. How come you don't obsess over the millions of illegal immigrants sneaking across our border? Or the record inflation that is destroying our quality of life because politicians have dumped trillions of dollars of unpaid spending into the economy? Or the debt that will eventually destroy this country. Or the high crime that is plaguing our once incredible cities. Or the drugs that kill 100,000 Americans each year. Or the out of control federal gov't that has become exactly what the founding fathers warned us about?
These issues have a far greater impact on your life than temp climbing by 1 degree in the next 50 or 100 years.
I dislike strawman arguments, and I dislike using perfection/ moral purity as a way to discredit an argument. I don't always hate the underlying point that is being made. Those argument types though are insulting and invalid. My standard is that when engaging in a discussion, I will disengage or at least be clear that I don't recognize the argument as valid in any way when someone's effort is so low as to use those forms of arguments. This is true regardless of whether I agree with the underlying argument. Those that I generally agree with politically will tell you that I speak up when using these sorts of arguments. I generally refrain from doing it here out of respect for Josh/ Billy and Evan. In this case, you broadbrushed a group that I generally would be associated with, made that group homogenous and ascribed hate to it. I do have self respect so I am replying.
As an atheist, I try to recognize when I am or someone someone else is applying a faith based (not necessarily religious faith https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith ) argument rather than a logic based argument. In that way, I value skepticism. I don't value being a cynic ( https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cynic ) as I see that more in the faith based decision making system than the logic based one. Your argument about climate activists flying in jets is far more cynical than it is skeptical as it's about the personal advancement of the activist through hypocrisy rather than arguing the validity of what they are advocating for. We are all hypocrites through someone else's eyes. That does not disprove any point that we are making. I have little time to argue personal merits rather that the merits of the argument.
Feel free to label people and broad-brush as you will. Please understand that when you do, little is accomplished in the form of advancing any argument. It becomes personal/ emotional very quickly and that really derails the discussion. This may be one of the reasons that you have indicated that you feel that there is little room for skepticism. You may well be confusing cynicism and skepticism.
I am done with this argument and thread. It had value while the merits of many things were being discussed. It's been successfully derailed, and I have played a part in that with what I just wrote. I don't particularly feel bad about that as the points that I have tried to make above have great significance but I will leave now. I hope that the merits of different forms of energy can continue to be debated without it becoming a personal attack on any group. I'm no longer helping that.
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