Indicator Leader Formulas

jaredoconnor said:
I have looked at the maps. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Thermoclines, on the other hand, are something I am completely clueless about.

How essential is a fish finder? Maybe I need to reconsider my keep-it-simple stance.
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I don't have a fish finder. The fish move around, and I can't count on them being in the same place/depth each visit.
To answer your question my method it to fish the likely structural spots with my type 6 using the countdown method with leeches until I get some feedback of fish being around. This helps me with the where/how deep part. When I bring an indicator rod I will then target the located fish until I've caught all the fly curious ones or they move somewhere else. I think I can stay on fish better with the indicator than to keep casting a sinking line through the area. @Tim Lockhart 's book stillwater strategies has helped me out a lot. Catch a lot more fish and am more confident after studying it.
 
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jaredoconnor said:
I have looked at the maps. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Thermoclines, on the other hand, are something I am completely clueless about.

How essential is a fish finder? Maybe I need to reconsider my keep-it-simple stance.
Click to expand...

That is great news that you are researching lakes you are interested in including bathymetric maps. They are a handy tool for sure.

As far as fish finders go... I have been fishing lakes over 60 years. Most all of the time was without one. Yes I do have one and if I am fishing a lake I do not know and especially without a bathymetric map they definitely help then. They also help fine tune one's location where a shelf/drop-off or structure are located.
 
jaredoconnor said:
I have looked at the maps. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Thermoclines, on the other hand, are something I am completely clueless about.

How essential is a fish finder? Maybe I need to reconsider my keep-it-simple stance.
Click to expand...

I did not avoid the discussion about thermoclines but decided it required a keyboard to respond appropriately...

Some background. My wife and I were volunteers in a King County lake stewardship program for a number of years for a lake I live near. We would go out twice a month for 6 - 7 months measuring water quality, water temps at various depths as well as water clarity among other things. During this time I was able to establish where the thermoclines were. At 20' down the temps were consistently at 55 degrees. At 30' down the temps were 45 degrees consistently. Yet the surface temps to 6' down ranged 70 degrees+. I would then go out with my fish finder and see fish that were marking consistently at or just above the 20' mark. 55 degrees and associated oxygen levels they 'enjoyed'. It improved my large fish catch rate as well as number of fish.

So a fish finder can help identify where the thermoclines are without all the water testing my wife and I did.

You can also look for information the lake is providing:

Lily pads grow in 8' to 10' of water. If they are growing out 20' to 30' into the lake it shows a very gradual slope of bottom. Probably a good location for warm-water species. If the lily pads are only 6' to 8' out, probably a good place to start looking for trout.

By fishing some, using the bathymetric maps as a reference, and marking areas you catch the most and/or largest fish I bet a trend will appear and help you on lakes you know little about.

So is a fish finder required? Absolutely not. But it is a tool/information that can help along with other information available...

Just something to think about...

Edited to add: Applies more to lowland lakes....
 
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RCF said:
I did not avoid the discussion about thermoclines but decided it required a keyboard to respond appropriately...

Some background. My wife and I were volunteers in a King County lake stewardship program for a number of years for a lake I live near. We would go out twice a month for 6 - 7 months measuring water quality, water temps at various depths as well as water clarity among other things. During this time I was able to establish where the thermoclines were. At 20' down the temps were consistently at 55 degrees. At 30' down the temps were 45 degrees consistently. Yet the surface temps to 6' down ranged 70 degrees+. I would then go out with my fish finder and see fish that were marking consistently at or just above the 20' mark. 55 degrees and associated oxygen levels they 'enjoyed'. It improved my large fish catch rate as well as number of fish.

So a fish finder can help identify where the thermoclines are without all the water testing my wife and I did.

You can also look for information the lake is providing:

Lily pads grow in 8' to 10' of water. If they are growing out 20' to 30' into the lake it shows a very gradual slope of bottom. Probably a good location for warm-water species. If the lily pads are only 6' to 8' out, probably a good place to start looking for trout.

By fishing some, using the bathymetric maps as a reference, and marking areas you catch the most and/or largest fish I bet a trend will appear and help you on lakes you know little about.

So is a fish finder required? Absolutely not. But it is a tool/information that can help along with other information available...

Just something to think about...
Click to expand...

Great info. Thanks!
 
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jaredoconnor said:
I have looked at the maps. Thanks for the suggestion though.

Thermoclines, on the other hand, are something I am completely clueless about.

How essential is a fish finder? Maybe I need to reconsider my keep-it-simple stance.
Click to expand...
It is not that essential. But when I was starting to learn (note starting—I am still learning) fly fishing in lakes, in particular fly fishing for trout in lakes, I spent a year or two without one, and I got tired of reading about how people use them and not having one, so when a new old stock FB 120 came up semi locally I went and got it and I am glad I did. I still haven’t learned how to use it to spot fish so much as provide data to help me find fish by understanding depths and temperatures. Although I am slowly getting better at using it to find fish. But if I wanted to work on that technique more, I might get that basic Garmin that everyone raves about. The Fishin Buddy is pretty cool in how easy it is to use it on float tubes and really almost any other craft other than a fiberglass boat and up.

Temperature—now that’s something that a weight on a string won’t tell you.
 
jaredoconnor said:
What about a stream thermometer, on a string? 🧐
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It works, too, but you have to wait for it to equilibrate.
The sonar doesn’t tell you T at any depth anyway, just close to the surface wherever the sensor is. So if that’s what you’re going for, T at depth, the thermo on a string is actually better than sonar. You just have to pull the string up and read it really, really fast. With electronics, it’s nice to just cruise around and be fishing and see what the temps are and adjust on the fly. It gets tedious having to stop and do all these non hook in the water things.
 
jaredoconnor said:
How essential is a fish finder? Maybe I need to reconsider my keep-it-simple stance.
Click to expand...
To catch fish...not essential. To catch more fish...it definitely helps. In new lakes it can be a huge time saver in locating the fish. Some days the fish will be in the predictable locations (drop offs), but others they might just be sitting in the middle of the lake or congregated at one end of the lake...only a fish finder can quickly provide that answer.

I've had my fish finder for about 5 years. I have fished at my favorite lake for 35 years. I have learned more about the lake in the last 5 years than I did in the first 30 years. One fall trip I found all of the fish to be far out from shore in 25' of water (a spot I never would have fished without seeing them on sonar). I hammered that location, caught more fish in a day than I ever have on a notoriously difficult lake, and caught my PB wild rainbow (almost 9lb)...only made possible through a fish finder. Other days it will just tell me to fish the same old spots that I have always caught fish, but the confidence it provides is valuable.
 
This is a fantastic description of what a sounder will do for your lake fishing. A good sounder that you know how to use, is the best stillwater fishing investment you can make. Regarding indicator leaders. You are usually fishing within 30 feet of the boat, they don't need to cast like a regular leader. Most guys north of the border use a straight piece of their prefered material (usually 8 or 10 lb test) to a swivel (yes we almost all use swivels, OMG) and tippet to the fly. Some guys go as short as 6 inches, most go 2 or 3 feet, I use 5-6 feet from the swivel (I don't get swivel takes this way). If I am fishing 20 feet or more I have at least one rod that is on a type 7 sinking line hung straight down. Many days I have 2 rods with a type 7 line hung straight down.
 
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jaredoconnor said:
I’ve been googling, but can’t find a good reference for how to set up an indicator leader. Below is what I have come up with, based on all the random sources that I have found.
  1. 12in 20lb Chameleon
  2. 10in 15lb Chameleon
  3. 8in 12lb Chameleon
  4. 6in 10lb Ultragreen
  5. Bobber stop
  6. 10ft 0x Powerflex
  7. Swivel
  8. 2ft 3x Fluoroflex
  9. Fly
  10. 2ft 5x Fluoroflex
  11. Fly
Question time…
  1. What should I change?
  2. What is the purpose of the swivel?
  3. Isn’t 10ft of 0x a nightmare to cast? Many formulas go much lighter, which seems like madness.
Click to expand...
This will only catch even fish. To catch odd fish you need a second rod out with odd number tippet lengths...You are welcome 😁
 
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