Got Yelled At

LBL

LBL

Steelhead
Forum Supporter
So I went down to a spot on the Elwha to practice casting. Wanted to see if I still knew how to cast a double handler and experiment with throwing an indicator rig on a spey.
No hook on the end of the line and no hooks on my person or in my truck. A local starts yelling at me about no fishing. I tell him I’m just practicing and don’t have a hook on. He continues to yell and tells me how if the “tribe” sees me I’ll be written up.
Was I in the wrong to practice on a closed river?
 
Overall, not a great idea. Perception is a powerful thing and regardless of your intentions and efforts to not have a hook anywhere others clearly will assume you are fishing. That assumption will lead to the less informed thinking that it must be open and they will fish it for real. My thoughts anyway.
 
Irafly said:
Overall, not a great idea. Perception is a powerful thing and regardless of your intentions and efforts to not have a hook anywhere others clearly will assume you are fishing. That assumption will lead to the less informed thinking that it must be open and they will fish it for real. My thoughts anyway.
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I hear what you are saying. But it’s up to the individual to know the regs. In a fly only lake if someone sees me fishing a bobber do they think it’s ok to fish worms. Just a counterpoint not trying to dis
 
Check your state regs.
When I lived in WA I was told that even if I didn't have a hook on the end of my line I was fishing, open or closed water didn't matter.
Someone yelling at you is their problem.
I'm not a LEO and it is not my job to tell you if you are breaking a law.
So cast away and if a WA game guy or gal comes along and gives you a ticket for fishing closed water. You can argue with them.
 
When Anil of PSFC held classes he would get permission on closed waters so I think you in the wrong
 
Perception is powerful, but isn't necessarily always correct. If you weren't fishing, then you weren't fishing. Fishing requires a hook & line, net, trap, or other means of capturing fish. It looks like the local person was just trying to be helpful and prevent you from receiving a ticket for illegal fishing. When you told him you were not fishing and just practicing casting with no hook, that should have been the end of it. That he continued to tell you that you shouldn't, well, the rules of problem ownership make that his problem. You might reduce the chance of being hassled if you call WDFW, or your local WDFW agent if you have their number, in advance and tell them you will be practicing and when and where.
 
@LBL - You ask an interesting question. One that I have wondered about as well. I took a spey casting class on the Wenatchee River; it was closed to angling (ESA listing 1996 or 97?). The host made sure none of us had hooks (just a piece of yarn knotted onto our leaders). I remember some in the group wondering if we were legal even swinging yarn. Something to do with "harassing" an ESA listed species? Personally I don't see anything wrong with what you were doing but it sure begs an answer.
 
It is something that probably should be addressed if we can't directly figure it out. When we were looking at adding a fly fishing class to our curriculum for pys ed and environment programs, we were told in a meeting that no casting practice could occur in the closed section of the creek.
 
There are tattletales, hall monitors, and big mouths everywhere. Even on a river there is probably 1 or 2 lurking with boredom within the black berry bushes waiting for there opportunity to "correct" others.
You made a mistake of making yourself an easy target.
 
I called WDFW when my Son thought he was interested in fly fishing. They said it's ok on OPEN water with hookless flies, not ok on CLOSED water and a good idea to notify your area warden to avoid being checked & thereby keeping warden from wasting his time.
 
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When I have WA fishing reg questions I send an email to whoever is in charge of the particular region I am inquiring about.

I've ALWAYS gotten an email response, and very often from one of the enforcement officers assigned to that area.

I print out the response and carry it in my truck because it's quite possible I might encounter an officer that doesn't share the same interpretation of the regs, and the document becomes a very powerful bit of affirmative defense if you have to contest a citation.

People think that LEOs all interpret the regs in exactly the same manner....which is absolutely not the case. I suspect that's because much of LEO training is OJT from another officer, and also because there are considerable 'gray areas' in regulations.

In my working years before retirement I dealt with USEPA and WA Dept of Ecology on a very frequent basis and often sought their respective interpretations of the Clean Water Act, and it was always interesting how much they differed...and even more so when USEPA (the much bigger dog in the room) told Ecology to sit down and shut up.

And NEVER rely upon a verbal conversation about a reg....because it's not unusual for enforcement folk to 'misremember' what they told you so they don't get in trouble. Hell...I've seen different program divisions at Ecology get in angry fights with each other because the regs themselves are in conflict.
 
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Personally I think one of the reasons the WDFW is so fond of just straight up closing waters instead of going to C&R or something else is so that they don't have to monitor them closely. Basically, if there's someone there, it's illegal. So I personally wouldn't encourage the perception of doing the wrong thing. That said, it's impossible to be fishing w/o a hook on the end of your line. (That's not to say a fly with the hook cut off--if you're presenting something that can be eaten, you'd be fishing.) But I don't think the the hassle of fighting it should enforcement write you up is worth it.
 
LBL said:
So I went down to a spot on the Elwha to practice casting. Wanted to see if I still knew how to cast a double handler and experiment with throwing an indicator rig on a spey.
No hook on the end of the line and no hooks on my person or in my truck. A local starts yelling at me about no fishing. I tell him I’m just practicing and don’t have a hook on. He continues to yell and tells me how if the “tribe” sees me I’ll be written up.
Was I in the wrong to practice on a closed river?
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Regardless what any law says.. no you were not in the wrong and everyone needs to mind their own business.. including any government agencies..
 
tkww said:
Personally I think one of the reasons the WDFW is so fond of just straight up closing waters instead of going to C&R or something else is so that they don't have to monitor them closely. Basically, if there's someone there, it's illegal. So I personally wouldn't encourage the perception of doing the wrong thing. That said, it's impossible to be fishing w/o a hook on the end of your line. (That's not to say a fly with the hook cut off--if you're presenting something that can be eaten, you'd be fishing.) But I don't think the the hassle of fighting it should enforcement write you up is worth it.
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They don't have sufficient enforcement personnel to monitor closely. Thin on the ground.
 
LBL said:
So I went down to a spot on the Elwha to practice casting. Wanted to see if I still knew how to cast a double handler and experiment with throwing an indicator rig on a spey.
No hook on the end of the line and no hooks on my person or in my truck. A local starts yelling at me about no fishing. I tell him I’m just practicing and don’t have a hook on. He continues to yell and tells me how if the “tribe” sees me I’ll be written up.
Was I in the wrong to practice on a closed river?
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Yes and no. When I would practice out of season, I would contact the local gamies on what I was doing. That way I was covered having permission and notifying the local WDFW. Mind you it's been years since I had to do it. On the Res, most definitely I'd call and ask first.
 
Regardless of how WDFW is rumored to feel about it, I have a hard time believing that tossing a line without a hook could stand up in court as "fishing".

Just as an example, here's a couple related state law definitions about fishing (and keep in mind I'm no lawyer)

(1) "Angling gear" means a line attached to a rod and reel capable of being held in hand while landing the fish or a handheld line operated without rod or reel.

(20) "To fish" and its derivatives means an effort to kill, injure, harass, harvest, or capture a fish or shellfish.
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I don't think that a rod with no hook fits either of those. I suppose someone MIGHT be able to claim that you were intending to "harass" fish in closed water? But I feel like there's a big "intent" aspect there that any competent lawyer would grab hold of. Now, how interested are you in dealing with the hassle that would come with an overzealous LEO trying to interpret the law to say that you were in the wrong?

All that said, I think a call/email to the WDFW for clarification is probably a good next step. I'm sure lots of us here would be interested in the answer.
 
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Irafly said:
Overall, not a great idea. Perception is a powerful thing and regardless of your intentions and efforts to not have a hook anywhere others clearly will assume you are fishing. That assumption will lead to the less informed thinking that it must be open and they will fish it for real. My thoughts anyway.
Click to expand...
“Those goddam elitist flyfisherman think they can anywhere anytime they want . . . “

Leland
 
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