Got Yelled At

Buzzy said:
@LBL - You ask an interesting question. One that I have wondered about as well. I took a spey casting class on the Wenatchee River; it was closed to angling (ESA listing 1996 or 97?). The host made sure none of us had hooks (just a piece of yarn knotted onto our leaders). I remember some in the group wondering if we were legal even swinging yarn. Something to do with "harassing" an ESA listed species? Personally I don't see anything wrong with what you were doing but it sure begs an answer.
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I don't think that will survive the burden of proof in a court of law. They have to prove first of all that there are fish where you are. Second of all they have to prove harassment. Since the fish didn't file a complaint about being harassed, how do we know in fact that they were harassed, if in fact they were even there.
 
_WW_ said:
I don't think that will survive the burden of proof in a court of law. They have to prove first of all that there are fish where you are. Second of all they have to prove harassment. Since the fish didn't file a complaint about being harassed, how do we know in fact that they were harassed, if in fact they were even there.
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It's always entertaining to judges when a defendant opens with "As I read the law....". 🤣
 
And some people just like to yell at other people. For instance, I had some lady scream "Slow down" at me today as I drove by driving 40 in a posted 40mph zone.
 
There used to be a couple on the South shore on the Kalama above the Beginners hole that would yell if you dropped anchor in front of their house. They even had a big sign warning you not to anchor.
 
J
Jim F. said:
And some people just like to yell at other people. For instance, I had some lady scream "Slow down" at me today as I drove by driving 40 in a posted 40mph zone.
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Just speeding around like Ole James Dean.
 
I actually emailed wdfw on this very subject about a year ago. I wanted to practice spey casting on a local river to me, which was closed for the majority of the year. No hook, just yarn to see the end of the leader turn over. They said I would be harassing returning salmon and steelhead, which then becomes a big no go.
 
Josh said:
Regardless of how WDFW is rumored to feel about it, I have a hard time believing that tossing a line without a hook could stand up in court as "fishing".

Just as an example, here's a couple related state law definitions about fishing (and keep in mind I'm no lawyer)



I don't think that a rod with no hook fits either of those. I suppose someone MIGHT be able to claim that you were intending to "harass" fish in closed water? But I feel like there's a big "intent" aspect there that any competent lawyer would grab hold of. Now, how interested are you in dealing with the hassle that would come with an overzealous LEO trying to interpret the law to say that you were in the wrong?

All that said, I think a call/email to the WDFW for clarification is probably a good next step. I'm sure lots of us here would be interested in the answer.
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Yeah, I agree you could probably beat a citation, after 15 hours of competent attorney time at $350 an hour. Waving a printout of an email from the LEO/tribal enforcement officer that says you can be there, doing what you are doing, would be a better plan IMHO.
 
_WW_ said:
I don't think that will survive the burden of proof in a court of law. They have to prove first of all that there are fish where you are. Second of all they have to prove harassment. Since the fish didn't file a complaint about being harassed, how do we know in fact that they were harassed, if in fact they were even there.
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Your honor, I wasn't harrasing them, I was entertaining them!
 
Stimson said:
I actually emailed wdfw on this very subject about a year ago. I wanted to practice spey casting on a local river to me, which was closed for the majority of the year. No hook, just yarn to see the end of the leader turn over. They said I would be harassing returning salmon and steelhead, which then becomes a big no go.
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This feels like extreme bullshit to me. But then again, so does much of fisheries management.
 
krusty said:
I suspect it's a bit like open carry...they gotta send out an officer to check on complaints and it chews up a lot of enforcement resources.
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Well, that's a more logical sort of thing. I'd honestly prefer if they just said that instead of making up "harassing fish" reasons.
 
I ran a casting clinic for 4 yrs for a fly shop, part of the year was closed to fishing, some locals had issues but the wardens knew what we where doing and we never seen them. A small group still meets once a month all year with zero issues.

Just call and let the warden know your intentions and all will be good. Its the intention that is the issue, " My intention is to practice, I will not have a hook and am not fishing, just practicing my casting technique"
 
A few years ago I was the ring leader of the outfit (their words) of a bunch of radicals tossing hookless flies at Rockport. Managed to avoid jail ...
 
I used to get yelled at once in awhile back in the day. I either ignored them or just moved away. No problems nor concerns.

Then about 10 years ago I got shot at or shots near or over my head. Developed a new perspective.

I try to access what could happen? Then ask what is the likelihood? If likelihood is higher than could, I move on...

Nowadays I avoid any confrontation. With so many carrying and not understanding the ramifications, I approach things and situations very differently. Not worth the risk...
 
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i would probably say something and then go on with my day unless i saw you actually handling/keeping fish then its a WDFW not mine. it could end up wasting wardens time, and they have better things to do then check a guy whos not fishing.
 
The fact that we are even having this discussion is so absurd it's mind boggling and utterly infuriating. If anyone in government has any problems whatsoever with casting practice on a river regardless of any conditions they clearly do not understand or are disregarding the constitution and their obligation to be it's bitch!! Practice casting doesn't fall under the jurisdiction of any government agency not even WDFW

We are not their subjects!!!
 
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