He was an Expert on the subject and needed validation.
Fly Fishing Elitism?
- Thread starter kmudgn
- Start date
He was an Expert on the subject and needed validation.
... "elitist" is being kind ...
cascadian
Steelhead
I see our miscommunication. When I think of "elite" I think elite athlete, elite scientist, elite is not a pejorative in my vocabulary. Elite to me means, "The best or most skilled members of a group.".
I'm hearing that you may believe it is a condemnation.
I think the difference between elite and elitist is like the difference between genius and know it all.
or more...like times 10...
Years ago I was fishing with my young sons on this particular stretch of river with a single barbless rooster tail within the bounds of this state's fishing laws for this particular river. I hooked a decent fish, gave the spin rod to my boy, who must have been about 8 or so at that time, and he landed it. Had a brief grip and grin photo and released the fish back to the river.
Now this river is more often pounded by fly fishers. Plus it is stocked like crazy. And tons of fly guides base out about a mile south of here. Sure enough, some elitist male Karen A-hole comes barging out of one of the mansions on the left of the clip and berates us for using spin gear, how it is illegal etc, and that it is fly-only water. Button down shirt tucked into his jeans and NY cap sort a guy. All of what he said was bullshit, and I told him so and showed the appropriate spinner with one barbless hook etc. That memory still irritates me, the entitlement etc...
Here's the game for you though, where would you have thrown the rooster tail in the pic below?
It's like 2pm and 80 degrees out in July.
Rooster tail or vibrax?
I highly recommend that if you find yourself in this same location, after carefully checking the regulations for the current date, if permissible, you throw a single barbless rooster tail on general principles of open access and law abidin' fishin' and to piss off whomever is riveted to their binoculars on the left side of the clip
personally I am not sure the backwoods of Maine need a ton of protection from varied fishing styles, selective rules, sure, catch and release too, but man there are tons of miles with virtually no one in some tricky areas to access up there. It is not a wealthy state, and the culture is to enjoy and respect the outdoors AND pull whatever resources they can from the flatlahndahs who want to see a lighthouse and want to catch a brook trout or smallmouth out of some tea-colored water....
Now this river is more often pounded by fly fishers. Plus it is stocked like crazy. And tons of fly guides base out about a mile south of here. Sure enough, some elitist male Karen A-hole comes barging out of one of the mansions on the left of the clip and berates us for using spin gear, how it is illegal etc, and that it is fly-only water. Button down shirt tucked into his jeans and NY cap sort a guy. All of what he said was bullshit, and I told him so and showed the appropriate spinner with one barbless hook etc. That memory still irritates me, the entitlement etc...
Here's the game for you though, where would you have thrown the rooster tail in the pic below?
It's like 2pm and 80 degrees out in July.
Rooster tail or vibrax?
I highly recommend that if you find yourself in this same location, after carefully checking the regulations for the current date, if permissible, you throw a single barbless rooster tail on general principles of open access and law abidin' fishin' and to piss off whomever is riveted to their binoculars on the left side of the clip
personally I am not sure the backwoods of Maine need a ton of protection from varied fishing styles, selective rules, sure, catch and release too, but man there are tons of miles with virtually no one in some tricky areas to access up there. It is not a wealthy state, and the culture is to enjoy and respect the outdoors AND pull whatever resources they can from the flatlahndahs who want to see a lighthouse and want to catch a brook trout or smallmouth out of some tea-colored water....
I don't "buy" the economic argument. I personally own a couple full fly outfits (crappy rod, crappy reel, and crappy line) that cost me less than $75 each. I used to use them for trolling with my kids on lakes, but they worked for everything else, too, in a pinch. You can definitely do it on the cheap; you only need to spend a lot if you care about quality and enjoying the fishing experience.
"Serious" gear anglers spend at least as much as I do on their gear, and the gear fishing I do has left me with an impression that I spend a lot more on gear tackle than fly tackle. Pricey hooks, lots of leaders, braided lines, lead weights, spinner components (or worse, pre-built hardware), quality bait, you name it... it's all crazy expensive anymore, and you tend to lose a lot more gear tackle to snags/etc. than you do fly tackle. Gear fishing reels are a little cheaper in general, but they have more issues than my fly reels, which are simple machines that last virtually forever.
Fly fishing only regulations are sometimes purely elitist or intentionally exclusionary. In most cases, I favor no bait/no scent regs. It's harder to enforce than fly only, but I don't think it's any more harmful to fish or the quality of an experience, and it lets more people play.
I am a catch and release proponent, especially in cases where populations can't sustain a lot of harvest, but in most resident fisheries, a little harvesting is good for the fishery, as it reduces competition for food and habitat, making for bigger, healthier fish over time.
"Serious" gear anglers spend at least as much as I do on their gear, and the gear fishing I do has left me with an impression that I spend a lot more on gear tackle than fly tackle. Pricey hooks, lots of leaders, braided lines, lead weights, spinner components (or worse, pre-built hardware), quality bait, you name it... it's all crazy expensive anymore, and you tend to lose a lot more gear tackle to snags/etc. than you do fly tackle. Gear fishing reels are a little cheaper in general, but they have more issues than my fly reels, which are simple machines that last virtually forever.
Fly fishing only regulations are sometimes purely elitist or intentionally exclusionary. In most cases, I favor no bait/no scent regs. It's harder to enforce than fly only, but I don't think it's any more harmful to fish or the quality of an experience, and it lets more people play.
I am a catch and release proponent, especially in cases where populations can't sustain a lot of harvest, but in most resident fisheries, a little harvesting is good for the fishery, as it reduces competition for food and habitat, making for bigger, healthier fish over time.
Better than most concepts, "elite" is as elite does.
I understand that language changes, and fully accept new uses & meanings of words, but "elite" doesn't really fall into this category, as there's no single, new & commonly used definition.
Therefore we don't need to define it ourselves.
From Merriam-Webster (edited for clarity by removing examples)
Elite:
a) the choice part
b) the best of a class
c) the socially superior part of society
d) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence, a member of such an elite
Elitist:
Adjective:
a) giving special treatment and advantages to wealthy and powerful people
b) regarding other people as inferior because they lack power, wealth, or status : snobbish
Noun:
a) one whose attitudes and beliefs are biased in favor of a socially elite class of people
b) a person who is or identifies as a member of a socially elite group
Ok, so NOW decide if fly fishers are either elite, or elitist!
I understand that language changes, and fully accept new uses & meanings of words, but "elite" doesn't really fall into this category, as there's no single, new & commonly used definition.
Therefore we don't need to define it ourselves.
From Merriam-Webster (edited for clarity by removing examples)
Elite:
a) the choice part
b) the best of a class
c) the socially superior part of society
d) a group of persons who by virtue of position or education exercise much power or influence, a member of such an elite
Elitist:
Adjective:
a) giving special treatment and advantages to wealthy and powerful people
b) regarding other people as inferior because they lack power, wealth, or status : snobbish
Noun:
a) one whose attitudes and beliefs are biased in favor of a socially elite class of people
b) a person who is or identifies as a member of a socially elite group
Ok, so NOW decide if fly fishers are either elite, or elitist!
As oddball misfit reprobates, fly fishers are definitely not elite or elitist.
If you fish in an ascot, and your parents aren't related other than by marriage, you might be an elitist.
But to be honest the term has been so overused/misused the past decade or so that it's sort of lost any impact these days. Now it's just used by people to describe someone they don't like in a higher socioeconomic bracket.
But to be honest the term has been so overused/misused the past decade or so that it's sort of lost any impact these days. Now it's just used by people to describe someone they don't like in a higher socioeconomic bracket.
My grandpa and father were rough and tough, hard rock silver miners in the mountains of Utah, not what you could call Elitist, but man, they could fly-fish. So I’m taking my wife for a rare fishing trip to an old family favorite creek. It’s an open reg. water and I’m wet wading. End of the day, I’ve caught and released a bunch on the fly rod and finally get my wife to try a nightcrawler near the parking area. Here comes two fly fishermen all decked out in the lastest, greatest outfits. They walk over and tell us we can’t use bait here. But I had just double checked the regs. just last night. Well, they say, baitfishing is for losers! I told them they’re mistaken on both accounts. Idiots they say and walk off. There, on a creek my families been fishing forever.
So I saw then how the general public might cop an attitude towards fly fisherman.
Some times when I come back to the ramp someone will ask me if I caught any? A few a
I’ll say. What you using? Flies. Then nothing but blank stares and silence…
So I saw then how the general public might cop an attitude towards fly fisherman.
Some times when I come back to the ramp someone will ask me if I caught any? A few a
I’ll say. What you using? Flies. Then nothing but blank stares and silence…
Is this one of dem trick questions? Duh! The answer is: e) All of the above
Some people fly fish for fun, some do it to pose. The posers are drawn to it by the supposed elitism and do their best to portray the imagined image acting like d bags. Social media has made it worse.
Fly fishing is just another tool in the box, not an excuse to be one.
Fly fishing is just another tool in the box, not an excuse to be one.
wanderingrichard
Life of the Party
It can very accurately be one in the right context. And yep, many of us use it interchangeably with exclusionary. Which is a more apt term for what we've been discussing
Dustin Chromers
Legend
The amount of cheating with bait on my home rivers is unreal. They then litter the bait containers cause they don't want to get caught. Bait fishermen are a blight on many fisheries. They kill fish they don't eat to harvest eggs, litter the piss out of everywhere, and generally make a mess. Call me an elitist but they are a subhuman species below me.