Coffee talk

Boy, is Ive right about going off the deep end in search of esoteric coffee goodness. Like fly fishing, there are lots of forums, resources and enthusiasts. You can get in really deep if you wish. Need an example, just view some of James Hoffman's Youtube videos for some good tech talks.

Before you do, let me say that many of us in the fly fishing community roll the same way. We lust after expensive rods, geek out over bamboo and old reels, like good whisk(e)y and beer, tie the most elaborate flies, hunt unicorns (steelhead) and are ever searching for the perfect fishing outing. Anal-retentiveness runs deep in our collective DNA. Be forewarned if you go down this path.

Here's my latest affliction. My SIL gave me her old espresso machine. I started trying to get it to brew shots as good or better than I can get at a cafe. I've upgraded the filter basket and have now performed what is known as the "dimmer mod" to reduce/control the pressure it uses to brew. Note the dimmer switch on top of the machine that is wired in series with the pump in the following photo:

View attachment 888

It's on my workbench because it's just a little sketchy and dangerous. Don't tell OSHA.

I'm still searching for that perfect shot. Next up is an expensive grinder because more, and better gear fixes everything.

God, please help me...
@BriGuy Right on! if you have time could you explain a little more on what you did here?

I have this same espresso machine, my uncle bought it for my wife an I as a wedding gift in 2007. I have used this thing at lease once a day since, sill works, but it is starting to give inconsistent results.
 
@troutpocket Great idea for a thread. I'm also a big fan of the AeroPress, how do you use yours? I found when I want more than one cup, I flip the press over, extend the plunger to 4, fill with one full scoop of grinds, fill to the top with water, let sit for 30-45 sec, turn over and slowly press. Then add water (about 12 oz). Gives me a little more coffee to drink without using to much grinds.
 
Yes same one! I’m on my second popper; first one fizzled after 4.5 years and 100+ pounds of beans.

I use a kitchen scale to weigh out 4 oz batches. During roasting I use a 50’ extension cord to provide some extra electrical resistance. Supposed to be a good thing to slow down the roast. The popper gets hot! I gently shake the popper during the entire roast to avoid burning beans.

I recommend working outside. The chaf goes everywhere and the aroma is intense. I gauge doneness on time, color, and smell. Since you like light roasts, you’ll hear the first crack progress and see the color changes. I usually get the start of first crack at 3-5 minutes and it lasts until 6-8 minutes. You could be done at that point. Fine tune from there. 30 seconds makes a difference.

Ambient temperature also makes a difference. In general, I get a good roast at anything above 40F. Wind can be an issue for me but probably less so for you?
Interesting on the timing. I usually get first crack around 8 minutes (my goal) but it doesn't last anywhere near 3 minutes. It's interesting to me that your setup is getting you to the start of first cracks so fast, yet somehow doesn't just blow through it super fast.

My wife likes cream in her coffee, and I'm too lazy to consistently keep two different batches ready to drink, so we usually compromise on the very start of second cracks for our daily drinker roasts. I'll typically hit first cracks around 8 minutes at ~385 degrees and get the start of second cracks at like 10.5-11 minutes and 420-424 degrees. I still struggle with timing/temp for city and city plus roast levels. The "end" of first cracks is tough for me to identify. I've ended up with enough underdeveloped "light roasts" to keep me defaulting to going a little long vs a little short.
1. Yup - I dump my beans from the big stirring pot into a stainless steel colander and transfer back and forth into a strainer to cool the beans as quickly as possible.

2. They sure do roast faster in the summer than in the winter ;-)
If you have a shop vac, the cardboard box cooler works amazingly well. Seal up a box with duct tape, cut a hole in the top for the colander, cut a hole in the bottom for you vacuum hose. Dump the beans and turn on the vacuum. I'll stir it some too for a minute until letting the vacuum do all the work.
 
BTW, for those living near Federal Way, Caffé de Arte's roasting plant is located north of S 348th and 9th Ave S. 1lb bag of beans for $10.00 wholesale price. Open to the public. I always stop by if I'm in the area.

I luv Caffe D'Arte coffee. A coffee stand near me serves it up all the time and is my go to place.

While not green beans you can buy Caffe D'arte Capri (various blends) at local stores.

One can buy Caffe D'Arte Capri (whole bean or ground) from Fred Meyer, QFC and Bartell's - depends on what they have in stock. I have seen it on sale for as low as $4.49 for 12 oz. Right now it is on sale at Freddies for $5.49.

Coffee from https://www.caffecapri.net/blends is roasted by Caffe D'Arte. Something to keep in mind...
 
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I drink mostly Batdorf & Bronson and De Espresso Liber. I do use Safeway brand pods for my K cup part of my coffee maker.
 
I luv Caffe D'Arte coffee. A coffee stand near me serves it up all the time and is my go to place.

While not green beans you can buy Caffe D'arte Capri (various blends) at local stores.

One can buy Caffe D'Arte Capri (whole bean or ground) from Fred Meyer, QFC and Bartell's - depends on what they have in stock. I have seen it on sale for as low as $4.49 for 12 oz. Right now it is on sale at Freddies for $5.49.

Coffee from https://www.caffecapri.net/blends is roasted by Caffe D'Arte. Something to keep in mind...
Yeah, I did notice that about the Capri. Saw it at Bartell's once before and did buy it. I kind of prefer the freshly roasted stuff from their plant. Plus, you can choose from all their blends there.
 
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If you have a shop vac, the cardboard box cooler works amazingly well. Seal up a box with duct tape, cut a hole in the top for the colander, cut a hole in the bottom for you vacuum hose. Dump the beans and turn on the vacuum. I'll stir it some too for a minute until letting the vacuum do all the work.
That's a heck of an innovative idea! (y) Perhaps more effective than mine technique, especially when it is warm outside. The strainer/colander technique does help remove some of the residual chaff. I'm certainly no gourmand but I am able to replicate pretty closely the roasts we like.
 
Interesting on the timing. I usually get first crack around 8 minutes (my goal) but it doesn't last anywhere near 3 minutes. It's interesting to me that your setup is getting you to the start of first cracks so fast, yet somehow doesn't just blow through it super fast.

My wife likes cream in her coffee, and I'm too lazy to consistently keep two different batches ready to drink, so we usually compromise on the very start of second cracks for our daily drinker roasts. I'll typically hit first cracks around 8 minutes at ~385 degrees and get the start of second cracks at like 10.5-11 minutes and 420-424 degrees. I still struggle with timing/temp for city and city plus roast levels. The "end" of first cracks is tough for me to identify. I've ended up with enough underdeveloped "light roasts" to keep me defaulting to going a little long vs a little short.

If you have a shop vac, the cardboard box cooler works amazingly well. Seal up a box with duct tape, cut a hole in the top for the colander, cut a hole in the bottom for you vacuum hose. Dump the beans and turn on the vacuum. I'll stir it some too for a minute until letting the vacuum do all the work.
I noted the same thing about TP's report of the timing of first crack coming on fast and seemingly lasting long. Is it possible that first crack is moving right into second crack with overlap, and thus the long crack period, which may actually be both first and second?
 
I have a coffee subscription through Trade. It's neat and we try lot of different coffees. Trade

April-october we make a big batch of concentrated cold brew once weekly.

October-March I make a 1 L french press every day that my wife and I split.

Either way we use exactly 12 oz of beans per week, which conveniently is 1 bag from trade.

I think I already have too many "things" or else this home coffee roasting would definitely be something I could get into
 
@troutpocket Great idea for a thread. I'm also a big fan of the AeroPress, how do you use yours? I found when I want more than one cup, I flip the press over, extend the plunger to 4, fill with one full scoop of grinds, fill to the top with water, let sit for 30-45 sec, turn over and slowly press. Then add water (about 12 oz). Gives me a little more coffee to drink without using to much grinds.

@BriGuy Right on! if you have time could you explain a little more on what you did here?

I have this same espresso machine, my uncle bought it for my wife an I as a wedding gift in 2007. I have used this thing at lease once a day since, sill works, but it is starting to give inconsistent results.
@Rooster: Here's what I have learned and done. I'll reply to your post rather than DM you in case others are interested.

First, I find that my machine brews too quickly. Normally, you want to extract your shot in 25-30 seconds for a yield of about 2X the weight of the beans. Faster, and you get a sour-tasting shot. Longer produces a bitter shot, which I'd actually prefer. My machine brews a shot at about 15 seconds and tastes pretty bad (Okay for lattes and milk drinks, though). The reason, I believe, is that our machines run at 14-15 bars of pressure because they are designed to use pressurized filter baskets (aka dual wall). The higher end espresso machines use non-pressurized baskets (single wall) and run around 9 bars of pressure. Hoping to drop the pressure is why I bought a non-pressurized basket and started playing with the dimmer switch.

To use the dimmer switch, you just buy the cheapest light dimmer that the hardware store sells. A dimmer switch for lighting will handle the electrical load of the pump. You'll also need some 14+ gauge primary wire and some male and female spade connectors. The spade connectors allow you to remove the connector from the pump and wire in the dimmer without having to cut/splice your machine's wires. Crimp a male spade on one of the switch wires and a female spade on the other. That way you can connect the female spade connector to the pump and the male to the wire you removed from the top of the pump. The end result is that the dimmer switch is connected in series between the pump and the wire you removed. For safety, please use an electrical box, insulated connectors/tape and the ground connector if your dimmer has one. Here's how mine looks:

1643681127005.png

I'm still deciding whether I want to use the dimmer, because it's kind of kludgy. It does give you great control over the pressure and flow rate, though.

I think the real answer is a quality coffee grinder that can grind fine enough for espresso and produce a consistent particle size. They are expensive, but you can play with the grind size to get the shot extraction timing down just right. The finer grinds slow the shot and the coarser grinds speed it up. Again, you're looking for about 25-30 seconds or so. I currently use a hand grinder which is kind of a pain and not very repeatable.

The dimmer mod is quite cheap and easy to do. WARNING: it can be dangerous since you're handling that switch in a potentially wet environment. Use at your own risk. Personally, I like the excitement and danger. :LOL:

If I find out any Eureka! moments with my machine, I'll DM you.
 
Interesting on the timing. I usually get first crack around 8 minutes (my goal) but it doesn't last anywhere near 3 minutes. It's interesting to me that your setup is getting you to the start of first cracks so fast, yet somehow doesn't just blow through it super fast.

My wife likes cream in her coffee, and I'm too lazy to consistently keep two different batches ready to drink, so we usually compromise on the very start of second cracks for our daily drinker roasts. I'll typically hit first cracks around 8 minutes at ~385 degrees and get the start of second cracks at like 10.5-11 minutes and 420-424 degrees. I still struggle with timing/temp for city and city plus roast levels. The "end" of first cracks is tough for me to identify. I've ended up with enough underdeveloped "light roasts" to keep me defaulting to going a little long vs a little short.

If you have a shop vac, the cardboard box cooler works amazingly well. Seal up a box with duct tape, cut a hole in the top for the colander, cut a hole in the bottom for you vacuum hose. Dump the beans and turn on the vacuum. I'll stir it some too for a minute until letting the vacuum do all the work.
I think the way the roast plays out has a lot to do with using a popcorn popper. I’ve read that the appeal of air roasting is the variable roast levels within a batch of the finished product makes for a particular flavor that you don’t get using other methods. Some beans get to first crack faster than others. At the end some beans are more “done” than others. I’m sure this isn’t desirable for some folks but it’s good for me!

When I get a batch that’s not roasted enough for my tastes, I save it to mix in with future batches. I like the brightness of the underroasted beans when they are blended in but don’t like the grassy tartness on their own.

I definitely notice a gap between first and second crack. Today I roasted a batch of my Honduras origin beans. They’re pretty robust, large beans. First crack started around 6 minutes and ended around 8 minutes. I stopped the roast at 14 minutes and a couple beans popped their second crack as I poured them out to cool. This isn’t uncommon as I usually aim for Full City to FC+. They definitely aren’t into Vienna/French roast territory. But the variability is evident, no?
D1E57881-00D5-4A78-94A6-39241EFCD6D8.jpeg
 
@troutpocket Great idea for a thread. I'm also a big fan of the AeroPress, how do you use yours? I found when I want more than one cup, I flip the press over, extend the plunger to 4, fill with one full scoop of grinds, fill to the top with water, let sit for 30-45 sec, turn over and slowly press. Then add water (about 12 oz). Gives me a little more coffee to drink without using to much grinds.
I think everyone I know who uses an Aeropress does it their own way. Way more flexible than a Moka Pot!

For my day-to-day I fill the press to the 1 with grinds. Add enough hot water to reach the 3. Mix well and let sit for 90 seconds. Plunge then fill the cup to 10-12 ounces depending on the beans. Some benefit from more water, some need to be a strong brew but most everything gets some added water. It’s pretty amazing how different the flavor can be by making small adjustments to the amount of water added to the cup.
 
I think the way the roast plays out has a lot to do with using a popcorn popper. I’ve read that the appeal of air roasting is the variable roast levels within a batch of the finished product makes for a particular flavor that you don’t get using other methods. Some beans get to first crack faster than others. At the end some beans are more “done” than others. I’m sure this isn’t desirable for some folks but it’s good for me!

When I get a batch that’s not roasted enough for my tastes, I save it to mix in with future batches. I like the brightness of the underroasted beans when they are blended in but don’t like the grassy tartness on their own.

I definitely notice a gap between first and second crack. Today I roasted a batch of my Honduras origin beans. They’re pretty robust, large beans. First crack started around 6 minutes and ended around 8 minutes. I stopped the roast at 14 minutes and a couple beans popped their second crack as I poured them out to cool. This isn’t uncommon as I usually aim for Full City to FC+. They definitely aren’t into Vienna/French roast territory. But the variability is evident, no?
View attachment 1530
Some variation in bean color for sure. Though I know some beans due that with an even roast. Natural processed beans come to mind. I’m air roasting too but get pretty consistent beans out of a batch.

Did another roast tonight and stopped it 5 degrees cooler than last time which was at the start of 2nd. Thinking it should be city+.

@Buzzy another nice thing about the vacuum is it also pulls out extra chaff. Speaking of that, my setup removes almost all chaff during the roast and 90% is maintained inside the roaster. It’s also hands free while roasting. Few more pics. Pretty good setup for like $30 all in.

71BE2B0B-E4FB-434C-8C62-3B9EB71BE761.jpeg

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60307F5C-E53F-4464-8F4D-ED2D18D53ACC.jpeg
 
I'm a pretty big coffee drinker. Probably more so than I should be. It's one of my last remaining vices.

I started drinking coffee when I went to work on commercial fishing boats in Alaska when I was 18, and have always had just two requirements for coffee....HOT, and strong. I drank too much break room coffee on the boats up north. That stuff was like sludge. Guess that just stuck with me.

I will say that every time I've browsed these types of threads my interest in upping my coffee game gets piqued, but quite frankly it's all fairly overwhelming and I wouldn't even know where to start.

I've never been fond of the Keurig route. Just never seems to be hot or strong enough for me, but the convenience is nice so I do use it for a cup or two around the house. When I'm on the water I brew a large pot every day and generally take two 24oz travel mugs for most days. A few years ago my wife bid on a coffee gift basket at a charity auction thing and in it was a French press. I have highly enjoyed using that, partly because I can get it as hot as I prefer. I prefer to burn my lips!

I think what I'd really enjoy is just trying a cup of quality coffee that someone else made just to see if I would be interested in pursuing it further on my own.

Oh, and this talk of "green beans" has been interesting. I never knew such a thing existed! Could someone give me a quick rundown on this?
 
@Nick Clayton what coffee do you use? Pre ground or grind at home? French press makes good coffee IMO. Biggest upgrade would be buying fresh roasted coffee. Get the roaster or shop to grind it for you for the method you use to brew. Next step would be to buy fresh roasted coffee and a decent burr grinder and grind at home before making the coffee. But good fresh coffee and consistent grind are what really bring it all together.

As for green beans, we’re just buying them un-roasted and roasting them ourselves. Fun to play with different origins and roast levels. Like anything you can get as geeked out on the details and spend as much on gear as you want. Haha. I’d be happy to roast you a batch sometime.
 
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@Nick Clayton what coffee do you use? Pre ground or grind at home? French press makes good coffee IMO. Biggest upgrade would be buying fresh roasted coffee. Get the roaster to grind it for you for the method you use to brew. Next step would be to buy fresh roasted coffee and a decent burr grinder and grind at home before making the coffee. But good fresh coffee and consistent grind are what really bring it all together.

As for green beans, we’re just buying them in-roasted and roasting them ourselves. Fun to play with different origins and roast levels. Like anything you can get as geeked out on the details and spend as much on gear as you want. Haha. I’d be happy to roast you a batch sometime.


Honestly I mostly use whatever my wife picks up at the grocery store haha. My only stipulation for her is no Folgers. Yuck.

When I'm living the bachelor life in Westport I'll often experiment a bit but am pretty limited in selection down there. For the most part I buy pre ground just for convenience sake, though I have messes around with grinding my own. Honestly had no idea that the actual act of grinding would have a big impact on the quality. That's good to know.

The folks I work for in Westport spend half their year in Costa Rica and the last few years have taken to bringing back a bunch of coffee and giving bags to the crew at the yearly Christmas party. I cant remember the brand they always get but I highly enjoy it. Unfortunately had to miss this year's party due to covid so wasn't able to get any. Kinda missing that.

I'd say at this stage I really don't know what I like haha.

Let's get out on the water one of these days... You bring the coffee, I'll bring the boat :)
 
Honestly I mostly use whatever my wife picks up at the grocery store haha. My only stipulation for her is no Folgers. Yuck.

When I'm living the bachelor life in Westport I'll often experiment a bit but am pretty limited in selection down there. For the most part I buy pre ground just for convenience sake, though I have messes around with grinding my own. Honestly had no idea that the actual act of grinding would have a big impact on the quality. That's good to know.

The folks I work for in Westport spend half their year in Costa Rica and the last few years have taken to bringing back a bunch of coffee and giving bags to the crew at the yearly Christmas party. I cant remember the brand they always get but I highly enjoy it. Unfortunately had to miss this year's party due to covid so wasn't able to get any. Kinda missing that.

I'd say at this stage I really don't know what I like haha.

Let's get out on the water one of these days... You bring the coffee, I'll bring the boat :)
Sounds like a plan to me man.

Grind is important for two main reasons. One is freshness. Once you grind you drastically increase the surface area exposed to oxygen so the coffee will go stale much quicker. Two is you want the most consistent grind size possible. When you brew if you have lots of super fine stuff mixed with big chunks it will inevitably lead to some grinds being over extracted and some being under extracted. That’s what happens with typical blade grinders.

But IMO if you’re buying off the shelf super market stuff the freshness and home grinding don’t matter as much because it’s already old and you’re better off with pre-ground because it’s nice and consistent.

It’s honestly hard to drink “regular coffee” after having fresh roasted coffee a while. Coffee Oasis around Kitsap has some decent roasts if you want to try a bag.

That’s cool about them bringing coffee back! I’d love to go visit a coffee farm some day.
 
@Rooster: Here's what I have learned and done. I'll reply to your post rather than DM you in case others are interested.

First, I find that my machine brews too quickly. Normally, you want to extract your shot in 25-30 seconds for a yield of about 2X the weight of the beans. Faster, and you get a sour-tasting shot. Longer produces a bitter shot, which I'd actually prefer. My machine brews a shot at about 15 seconds and tastes pretty bad (Okay for lattes and milk drinks, though). The reason, I believe, is that our machines run at 14-15 bars of pressure because they are designed to use pressurized filter baskets (aka dual wall). The higher end espresso machines use non-pressurized baskets (single wall) and run around 9 bars of pressure. Hoping to drop the pressure is why I bought a non-pressurized basket and started playing with the dimmer switch.

To use the dimmer switch, you just buy the cheapest light dimmer that the hardware store sells. A dimmer switch for lighting will handle the electrical load of the pump. You'll also need some 14+ gauge primary wire and some male and female spade connectors. The spade connectors allow you to remove the connector from the pump and wire in the dimmer without having to cut/splice your machine's wires. Crimp a male spade on one of the switch wires and a female spade on the other. That way you can connect the female spade connector to the pump and the male to the wire you removed from the top of the pump. The end result is that the dimmer switch is connected in series between the pump and the wire you removed. For safety, please use an electrical box, insulated connectors/tape and the ground connector if your dimmer has one. Here's how mine looks:

View attachment 1514

I'm still deciding whether I want to use the dimmer, because it's kind of kludgy. It does give you great control over the pressure and flow rate, though.

I think the real answer is a quality coffee grinder that can grind fine enough for espresso and produce a consistent particle size. They are expensive, but you can play with the grind size to get the shot extraction timing down just right. The finer grinds slow the shot and the coarser grinds speed it up. Again, you're looking for about 25-30 seconds or so. I currently use a hand grinder which is kind of a pain and not very repeatable.

The dimmer mod is quite cheap and easy to do. WARNING: it can be dangerous since you're handling that switch in a potentially wet environment. Use at your own risk. Personally, I like the excitement and danger. :LOL:

If I find out any Eureka! moments with my machine, I'll DM you.
I wonder if I can install a dimmer on the $24 popcorn popper that I ordered in which I plan to roast coffee. Hmm.

Your situation is a little funny to me. I’m trying to think of the right analogy for having the most badass home espresso machine, but not much of a grinder. Putting a Yugo interior in a Cadillac? Cooking a dry aged steak to well done? no no no. Maybe buying a c and f design vise just to tie glo bugs. Anyway, just ribbin’ ya. (I’ve really enjoyed my Baratza Encore and feel it made huuuuge difference in my brews)
 
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