Charging people for backcountry rescue?

My buddy flipped his kayak in the Sound and got rescued. Some might say he was being reckless. I wouldn't want him repeatedly trying to self rescue instead of calling on the radio because he feared a big rescue fee.
 
Josh said:
As someone who bought a satellite rescue beacon after dislocating a finger while fishing alone in the backcountry (and realizing it could have been far worse), I have thought about what comes after pressing the "save me" button. And I happened to run across this article today on why we don't (or shouldn't, it's a bit of an opinion piece) charge people for backcountry rescue.

www.cascadiadaily.com

Why don't we charge for backcountry rescues? | Cascadia Daily News

Some are egregious
www.cascadiadaily.com www.cascadiadaily.com

The fellow makes a few good points. Especially about the training value of Navy teams providing helicopter support. That said, it is really hard to not let the blood boil a bit when you read about morons like this:



And as the article mentions, those of us who go out of bounds have always seen these signs around here.

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But on the other hand, do we really want people getting financially ruined for what may be a legitimate bit of bad luck that requires a rescue? I would say "no". I view it as a public service for both us and for nature. I'd rather a lost person call for a rescue than start a forest fire trying to keep warm (a thing that has happened). I hate the idea of us having to pay for idiots being negligent. But the article brings up a good point about "Who gets to decide what’s negligent and what isn’t?" Do we really want to have to have "rescue court" where everyone's decision making gets judged by a jury of their outdoor peers?

While it chaps my hide to read about idiots like the snowmobilers above, I think I'd rather call backcountry rescue a public service, deal with the annoyance, and have the minor expense of chipping as a society in for helicopter fuel and whatnot.
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I say charge them community service if they’ve broken a law. They can afford it, it teaches a lesson, and we the public may end up with some benefit from it.

If no law was broken, then it seems like it’s just a function of these various agencies to do the job they are tasked with and paid for.
 
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As an electrician. I wire some ones house and it catches fire and the cause is electrical. Yep my fault and I pay the price.
As a nurse. I give some one a shot of the wrong stuff by mistake and they die. Yep my fault and I pay the price.
The list goes on and on.
People make mistakes and maybe they should pay the price.
 
Some accountability for stupidity and laziness and lawlessness is important. Perhaps a fixed rescue rate in place where all knew what it would cost and could decide before calling for help.
 
I spent a night in the woods one time. 3 of us went fishing Day Creek one time after work. We just told our wives that we were going fishing. Not where. We usually came home after fishing. But one time we didn't make it home. To get to where we fished Day Creek, you had to climb down into a canyon. It was a ten minute hike down to the creek. You had to fight devils club, downed trees, Brush, and rocks. Well we got down and stated fishing. When it was time to go, one had to get in one more cast. You all know how that goes. We couldn't find out where we came down at. But started back up the hill. We ended up trying to find our way out, but couldn't so we built a small fire to cheer us up. I smoked at that time of my life. I had what was left of a pack and another full pack. They lasted until daylight. We climbed out and went home. Since we didn't tell where we went they couldn't of tried to find us. A lesson learned. I now tell where I go fishing.
 
Old Man said:
I spent a night in the woods one time. 3 of us went fishing Day Creek one time after work. We just told our wives that we were going fishing. Not where. We usually came home after fishing. But one time we didn't make it home. To get to where we fished Day Creek, you had to climb down into a canyon. It was a ten minute hike down to the creek. You had to fight devils club, downed trees, Brush, and rocks. Well we got down and stated fishing. When it was time to go, one had to get in one more cast. You all know how that goes. We couldn't find out where we came down at. But started back up the hill. We ended up trying to find our way out, but couldn't so we built a small fire to cheer us up. I smoked at that time of my life. I had what was left of a pack and another full pack. They lasted until daylight. We climbed out and went home. Since we didn't tell where we went they couldn't of tried to find us. A lesson learned. I now tell where I go fishing.
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Always better to spend a lousy night's sleep rather than take a risk in the dark, panic is what causes a lot accidents. You made the right call.

I am hopeful my current cell phone lasts long enough to be replaced with a low cost satellite phone with great coverage. Pushing the button on the Spot sets pretty dramatic action in motion. Being able to call and explain the situation and maybe get directed to safety would be better than an all out rescue?
 
I don’t think we should charge for rescues. As others have said, I would hate to have the fear of a large bill stop someone from calling for rescue.

That said, it would be nice if there was some assessment process to determine if folks got into trouble because they were unprepared, lacked appropriate technical skills, took unnecessary risks, etc. versus it being a freak accident or act of god type thing that got them in trouble. If it was the former, force them to take some very intensive courses on wilderness safety. If they refuse, then charge them the cost of the rescue. The class would be an additional charge on the tax payers but might actually end up saving us money on future rescues.

Problem would be if you could apply the assessment fairly in all situations.
 
You people are too nice! And I think such nicety facilitates the degradation of society by rewarding stupidity. This can only hasten the achievement of social idiocracy. Have you seen the movie Idiocracy? That is what happens when stupidity is rewarded instead of being weeded out of the gene pool. Rewarding stupidity prevents natural and logical consequences from happening. The stupidity breeds and creates more stupidity. It does not end well.
 
Look, my tax dollars already pay for lung cancer treatment for smokers and for open heart surgery for sedentary burger bingers, no questions asked. I’m not gonna get my panties in a twist over a lost hiker who doesn’t have his ten essentials. Plus, I can guarantee you’d spend way more determining fault than you’d ever collect.
 
PhilR said:
Look, my tax dollars already pay for lung cancer treatment for smokers and for open heart surgery for sedentary burger bingers, no questions asked. I’m not gonna get my panties in a twist over a lost hiker who doesn’t have his ten essentials. Plus, I can guarantee you’d spend way more determining fault than you’d ever collect.
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This! If you think the rescue was pricey wait til the bureaucratic fact finding mission begins. And who's on the hook when they find the person wasnt at fault? The taxpayers
 
Pink Nighty said:
This! If you think the rescue was pricey wait til the bureaucratic fact finding mission begins. And who's on the hook when they find the person wasnt at fault? The taxpayers
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"My" lake opens on the last Saturday in April. I'm going to start then!
 
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dirty dog said:
As an electrician. I wire some ones house and it catches fire and the cause is electrical. Yep my fault and I pay the price.
As a nurse. I give some one a shot of the wrong stuff by mistake and they die. Yep my fault and I pay the price.
The list goes on and on.
People make mistakes and maybe they should pay the price.
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Salmo_g said:
You people are too nice! And I think such nicety facilitates the degradation of society by rewarding stupidity. This can only hasten the achievement of social idiocracy. Have you seen the movie Idiocracy? That is what happens when stupidity is rewarded instead of being weeded out of the gene pool. Rewarding stupidity prevents natural and logical consequences from happening. The stupidity breeds and creates more stupidity. It does not end well.
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While I typically would agree as I'm into extreme ownership and accountability for one's self I think you are missing a major component here. You and I are tax cattle, nothing more as far as the government is concerned. Your value as far as it's concerned is in your feudal ability to enrich the realm. In that light when one of your tax cattle go astray the least you can do is retrieve them. At least one retrieval per customer. The absolute waste and printing of money by our fearless leaders is awe inspiring. For the mountain of taxes I pay I feel entitled, yes I said it, entitled to a bush rescue if shit goes really wrong and I was prepared but without luck. I've never been rescued. I've never planned on it. I've spent unplanned nights out. I've suffered. I've never considered dialing for help.

As far as your insurance picking up the tab on bad electrical work. Well, that's why they make you get insurance. It's almost like taxes. If my bountiful involuntary tax contribution doesn't buy me some insurance on a rescue then what am I buying? I certainly buy a bunch of corporate welfare and services for folks who make their lives collecting free shit from our fearless leaders who are very happy to hand out my funds to those who could but choose not to contribute. If the government wants to be a cowboy with my money the least they can do is saddle up and retrieve me from danger. Hell it's a great investment for them as I'll continue to contribute half my stuff if I don't die. What's the return on reviving serial overdose people and keeping the morbidly obese above ground?
 
I one time worked with a search and rescue person. They go out at all hours and it shitty weather to try to save lives of the Idiots that go into the woods totally unprepared. Since she worked at Boeing she got paid for looking and searching for a lost idiot. Some time the lost souls take a misstep and fall off a mountain. They still have to go out and bring the body back. I for one would never volunteer for a thing like that. I can stand the sight of my blood in small doses. But not in large doses. Finding a body in the woods or the base of a cliff all mangled up. Well the answer is not on your life.

They once were playing around with this pay to get saved in Washington. But it never got off the floor.

I'm an old man, I have heard lots of stuff off the cuff. That never took off. This was one that never had a chance.
 
Sorry, but I can’t subscribe to writing off the cost of this type of rescue as a public service. I’ll accept to paying my share of rescue costs which result from bad luck, negligence, or maybe even stupidity in some cases, but not rescues like this that result from clear violations of the law.

www.krtv.com

Man rescued from Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone now faces charges

A little more than a week ago, a Yellowstone National Park Search and Rescue team pulled a man to safety from nearly 900 feet down in the Grand Canyon of the Yellowstone.
www.krtv.com www.krtv.com
 
Dustin Chromers said:
If we are going to charge people for rescue with the mountain of tax dollars our agencies collect then we should be charging the morbidly obese for their rides to the hospital, drug addicts for the same, and homeowners when they burn their houses down and the fire department responds. I think if you aren't being a jackass one free one is in order. There is a mountain of wasted resources and to single this out when it's likely people paying into said system is silly. Are the drug addicts paying for their medical response and narcan? Not a chance, but let's financially ruin the guy who breaks a femur in the backcountry due to a rock slide. And spare me the rescuers risk argument. I was the rescuer and did that job without question of duty as I signed up for it.
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Damn, I like this…
 
Once the lawyers get a good grip on this, trip planning will become entirely too burdensome to even want to make the attempt. If you want to leave on Friday you'll need to start signing the waivers of liability early Wednesday morning. God help you if you're missing one.

"Wait a second! Where the hell is my Stepping Beyond the Sidewalk Waiver? It wasn't in the government supplied packet! Those incompetent motherfuckers!"
 
Back to Josh's original post-I don't understand why the idiot's sleds were not confiscated and sold to help defray the cost of rescue.

Back in the '60's when I was living in the Sierra Nevada I talked to a ranger that had caught 2 guys in the back country on trail bikes. They promised to ride them out immediately but instead he took the spark plugs and ordered them to walk out. They were unable to retrieve the bikes as a result and had to hire a pack train outfitter to go in and carry them out on mules. Some disassembly required.
 
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